2724 réponses à ce sujet

[Ellyria]

Meta Ray Mek wrote...

And ffs, people, a chaste marriage isn't invalidated/not a "real" marriage just because some people choose not to do the deed for one reason or another. I, for one, like the idea of a chaste marriage (I'm asexual and thus uninterested in sex, period. My Hawke is by proxy, so she's cool with Sebastian's celibacy. And yes, I know the two aren't the same. Still... Problem solved!) so... yay.

I was so pissed they didn't acknolwedge the romance in the end game. Ugh. That was a real turn-off for me.

No one's saying that a chaste marriage isn't a real marriage. We're usually just debating on what exactly Sebastian meant when he said "chaste marriage", as some people believe it means sex is allowed and others believe that it isn't. And it will probably continued to be debated until Jennifer Hepler or another dev gives us a straight up answer. 

TeenZombie wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like Sebastian at all if I didn't at least see some charm and "romance" in his vows, so I think it's very cool that Legacy acknowledges it.  I also don't know about the whole "loophole" in the wording thing.  If he took a vow of celibacy, and proposes a chaste marriage, I'm guessing those things go hand in hand.

Personally, though, even though I love "Joan of Arc" female martyr type characters in fiction, I can't see Hawke that way.  So it's hard to go the friendship route with Sebastian.  Hawke, to me, is sarcastic and silly and a bit bawdy in her behavior.  She was raised by an apostate and is a "free thinker".  So she respects Sebastian's faith, but she doesn't completely share his views.

And that's *just* my character.  Part of the reason I enjoy reading fan fiction is to see other people's versions of the player character.  If I can read a fic and the writer makes me feel for their Hawke, even if it's a completely different kind of Hawke than my own, then I'm impressed.

Pretty much this. My Hawke respects Sebastian's faith to the Chantry and how seriously he takes his vows, but she's not going to ditch her Warrior armor for a Chantry robe and spend all day praying with him. And seeing his response if you turn down his chaste marriage proposal, he's not willing to change for her either. It would be nice if they could have come to a compromise, or if one will be available in future DLC.

Meyne wrote...

Unless I was interrupting because I was being protective big sis.  Guess I could see that.

I would check to see if the lines are the same in another non-romanced Sebastian save but... I don't have one at the moment, I deleted a ton of DA2 saves off my PS3 so I could start all my friend/rival Sebastian/Anders/Fenris romances from the beginning. In hindsight I'm kicking myself... 

Modifié par Chylise, 29 juillet 2011 - 03:33 .

[rak72]

My report - snarky hawk, friendmacnce Seb, Rival Beth.:

paraphrased

B - so you're a prince
S- that and so much better thanks to the pure love of your sister
B - so you're married nor (or something like that)
H - I know, weird, right?
B - Just don't screw it up

Shot of the newlyweds:

[john-in-france]

Chylise wrote...

Meta Ray Mek wrote...

And ffs, people, a chaste marriage isn't invalidated/not a "real" marriage just because some people choose not to do the deed for one reason or another. I, for one, like the idea of a chaste marriage (I'm asexual and thus uninterested in sex, period. My Hawke is by proxy, so she's cool with Sebastian's celibacy. And yes, I know the two aren't the same. Still... Problem solved!) so... yay.

I was so pissed they didn't acknolwedge the romance in the end game. Ugh. That was a real turn-off for me.

No one's saying that a chaste marriage isn't a real marriage. We're usually just debating on what exactly Sebastian meant when he said "chaste marriage", as some people believe it means sex is allowed and others believe that it isn't. And it will probably continued to be debated until Jennifer Hepler or another dev gives us a straight up answer. 

TeenZombie wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't like Sebastian at all if I didn't at least see some charm and "romance" in his vows, so I think it's very cool that Legacy acknowledges it.  I also don't know about the whole "loophole" in the wording thing.  If he took a vow of celibacy, and proposes a chaste marriage, I'm guessing those things go hand in hand.

Personally, though, even though I love "Joan of Arc" female martyr type characters in fiction, I can't see Hawke that way.  So it's hard to go the friendship route with Sebastian.  Hawke, to me, is sarcastic and silly and a bit bawdy in her behavior.  She was raised by an apostate and is a "free thinker".  So she respects Sebastian's faith, but she doesn't completely share his views.

And that's *just* my character.  Part of the reason I enjoy reading fan fiction is to see other people's versions of the player character.  If I can read a fic and the writer makes me feel for their Hawke, even if it's a completely different kind of Hawke than my own, then I'm impressed.

Pretty much this. My Hawke respects Sebastian's faith to the Chantry and how seriously he takes his vows, but she's not going to ditch her Warrior armor for a Chantry robe and spend all day praying with him. And seeing his response if you turn down his chaste marriage proposal, he's not willing to change for her either. It would be nice if they could have come to a compromise, or if one will be available in future DLC.

Meyne wrote...

Unless I was interrupting because I was being protective big sis.  Guess I could see that.

I would check to see if the lines are the same in another non-romanced Sebastian save but... I don't have one at the moment, I deleted a ton of DA2 saves off my PS3 so I could start all my friend/rival Sebastian/Anders/Fenris romances from the beginning. In hindsight I'm kicking myself... 

Very true. We are having a debate over what it means to our Hawkes, depending on the Hawke concerned and the take on the whole chaste marriage thing. Everything is good fodder for fanfiction!

I have a Hawke who is a Chantry Seeker who thinks the celibate Chaste Marriage is wonderful, and another Hawke who takes the Chaste Marriage as the way the Catholic church (real world) uses it (no contraceptives, married before sex, and emphasis on kiddies). I also have a rogue Hawke that turned Seb down, and a mage Hawke who rivalled Seb. Plus Hawkes in other romances.

It all depends on the character that you are playing and/or writing. So everything is open to interpretation...wouldn't it be boring if we all thought the same?

I went back to the DA2 website today and re-read the short story, no celibacy line. Maybe Heppler has edited it? I hope so. For those who have not read Hepplers very short story, you'll find it here: http://na.llnet.biow...short_story.pdf

[Ellyria]

john-in-france wrote...

I went back to the DA2 website today and re-read the short story, no celibacy line. Maybe Heppler has edited it? I hope so. For those who have not read Hepplers very short story, you'll find it here: http://na.llnet.biow...short_story.pdf

Second page, fourth paragraph. I seem to miss it the first time I read it, then have to re-read it because I KNOW it's there.

I was a bit disappointed with the short story, to be honest, because from what it said in the codex, I thought Sebastian would have taken off for a bit and then come back to the Chantry after he realized he hated his old life, not turned around and walked back in IMMEDIATELY after he escaped.

[R2s Muse]

Chylise wrote...

john-in-france wrote...

I went back to the DA2 website today and re-read the short story, no celibacy line. Maybe Heppler has edited it? I hope so. For those who have not read Hepplers very short story, you'll find it here: http://na.llnet.biow...short_story.pdf

Second page, fourth paragraph. I seem to miss it the first time I read it, then have to re-read it because I KNOW it's there.

Chylise wrote...
There's also this line from Sebastian's short story: "My complaint is with my parents, for sending me here as punishment, for forcing me to a vow of celibacy to protect my brothers' children from any rival heirs I might beget."

You know, another thing I thought was interesting about that particular line about celibacy is the intention to limit any Vael bastards running around. It sort of jibes with something else I read in one of the codexes, that the Vael family just seems to regularly send "the spare" child to the Chantry: "They remain devout, dedicating at least one son or daughter per generation to become a cleric in the chantry."  I always figured it was a special punishment for Sebastian to limit his wild ways, but it sounds like standard practice for the Vaels.

So, who knows -- maybe the celibacy thing is a special "birth-control" edition for royal offspring!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 29 juillet 2011 - 04:32 .

[R2s Muse]

Chylise wrote...

Meyne wrote...
Unless I was interrupting because I was being protective big sis.  Guess I could see that.

I would check to see if the lines are the same in another non-romanced Sebastian save but... I don't have one at the moment, I deleted a ton of DA2 saves off my PS3 so I could start all my friend/rival Sebastian/Anders/Fenris romances from the beginning. In hindsight I'm kicking myself... 

Looking at the talk table, it looks like there's a version where Sebastian just full on flirts with Beth, and Hawke doesn't say anything. So, I would *hope* that's a non-romanced Seb! Now, there's a part 3 of the banters on youtube that finally has these!! Check out this starting at 1:45, which seems to have the whole series- romanced and non-romanced Seb, mage and warden Beth (plus many or most of the other Seb banters - yeah!).

The full-on flirting one (presumably w non-romanced Seb and warden Beth) goes:
B: So, Sebastian.... you're a prince.
S: That is my lot, Lady Hawke.
B: <desc>Laughs</desc> This life is not... supportive of delicate titles.
S: To have a second chance, and one with such purpose, it cannot be a curse.
B: This wasn’t my choice. If there’s something good or beautiful in any of this, please, enlighten me.
S: Well, there’s you.
B: I... oh my.
(then someone chuckles...varric?)

[john-in-france]

Chylise, R2s Muse:

It is there...damn!

There is another problem with the chaste marriage thing, Sebastian during one of the flirts says that he took a vow to have no other bride than Andraste. So how can he then propose a celibate/chaste marriage anyway?

I think that Bioware really need to set the record straight on this one. Vows or no vows, celibate vs chaste.

Many religions have priests in chaste marriages, so being in the Chantry doesn't necessarily mean no smoochies so to speak...

I don't mind waiting for a Prince who considers himself worthy, but if he flirts with my sister, he is likely to get a smack around the ear...

Anyway I'm off to get screenshots of my Seeker Hawke and Sebs.

We need the Starkhaven DLC!

[john-in-france]

Judy-in-France:

I have been shamelessly researching medieval literature and courtly love to get a feel for the new story that I'm writing, and came across a beautiful poem that would work well as an exchange of vows. The vows denied us so far by Bioware...so how many of us are planning wedding fiction at the moment?

What do you think?

Groom:
I desired you before the world began.
I desire you now
As you desire me.
And where the desires of two come together
There love is perfected

Bride:
Lord, you are my lover,
My longing,
My flowing stream,
My sun,
And I am your reflection.

Groom:
It is my nature that makes me love you often,
For I am love itself.
It is my longing that makes me love you intensely,
For I yearn to be loved from the heart.
It is my eternity that makes me love you long,
For I have no end.

From the medieval poems of the Mystic, Mechthild of Magdeburg (1207- 1282), based on the Song of Songs.

[Ellyria]

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, another thing I thought was interesting about that particular line about celibacy is the intention to limit any Vael bastards running around. It sort of jibes with something else I read in one of the codexes, that the Vael family just seems to regularly send "the spare" child to the Chantry: "They remain devout, dedicating at least one son or daughter per generation to become a cleric in the chantry."  I always figured it was a special punishment for Sebastian to limit his wild ways, but it sounds like standard practice for the Vaels.

So, who knows -- maybe the celibacy thing is a special "birth-control" edition for royal offspring!

I wonder if the middle brother was originally supposed to be sent to the Chantry, while Sebastian led the Starkhaven military (remember when you give him the Starkhaven Longbow, he says "As the youngest son, it was my place to lead Starkhaven's militia") and the eldest brother ruled as Prince, but Sebastian was so wild they sent him to the Chantry instead. Either way, one of them was getting shipped off to serve the Maker, it just doubled as a punishment for Sebastian.

john-in-france wrote...

Chylise, R2s Muse:

It is there...damn!

There is another problem with the chaste marriage thing, Sebastian during one of the flirts says that he took a vow to have no other bride than Andraste. So how can he then propose a celibate/chaste marriage anyway? 

I think that Bioware really need to set the record straight on this one. Vows or no vows, celibate vs chaste. 

Many religions have priests in chaste marriages, so being in the Chantry doesn't necessarily mean no smoochies so to speak...

Yeeeeeeah, little things like what you mentioned are why we'd like some confirmation from the devs. Although it does give many many interpretations in fanfics and the like.

I don't mind waiting for a Prince who considers himself worthy, but if he flirts with my sister, he is likely to get a smack around the ear...

Seriously, what was up with that? Hawke has to pratically jump in Sebastian's lap half-naked to get him to pay special attention to her, but he'll up and flirt with Bethany if Hawke didn't romance him? Something is very wrong there. At least if you did rivalmance him, he doesn't flirt back and Hawke (jealously) stops Bethany from her continued flirting. And why the heck is Bethany so jealous anyway? Yes, Sebastian IS the best looking love interest in the game (to us anyway ) and he's a Prince, but still, Bethany didn't get to know Sebastian at all, (seeing as she left after Act 1 and Sebastian didn't join Hawke until Act 2), so I don't understand the jealousy thing.

@Rak I love your Hawke. The freckles are so cute.

Also, four words: Belt Buckle of Righteousness. 

[BlackLotus30]

second banter is the best part ^_______________^

[Liso66]

Hi all.

I like Sebastian. I have no idea why, since we are so limited as a companion, in comparison. However.... How do I ****** him off? I want to explore the rival aspect of this companion and I've yet to figure out how to make him a rival. He was created with one seriously quirky personality. Things I assume will lower approval, I end up getting crazy + 25's etc..

I saw some youtube vids of being his rival and it looked like a lot of fun. BTW, I am patched to 1.03

thanks in advance,,

Liso

[Ellyria]

 Constantly telling him that he needs to retake Starkhaven nets Rivalry points, along with blantently cruel acts, siding with mages, and dissing the Chantry. If you metagame it a bit, you can max out his Rivalry without being a complete ******.

Here's guide that someone put together for Approval per act.

http://social.biowar...248/blog/26632/
http://social.biowar...248/blog/26634/

[Liso66]

Chylise wrote...

 Constantly telling him that he needs to retake Starkhaven nets Rivalry points, along with blantently cruel acts, siding with mages, and dissing the Chantry. If you metagame it a bit, you can max out his Rivalry without being a complete ******.

Here's guide that someone put together for Approval per act.

http://social.biowar...248/blog/26632/
http://social.biowar...248/blog/26634/

Thank you Chylise..  I'll check out the guides.. I am not good at being a complete ******, just a random one.  

[R2s Muse]

Chylise wrote...
I wonder if the middle brother was originally supposed to be sent to the Chantry, while Sebastian led the Starkhaven military (remember when you give him the Starkhaven Longbow, he says "As the youngest son, it was my place to lead Starkhaven's militia") and the eldest brother ruled as Prince, but Sebastian was so wild they sent him to the Chantry instead. Either way, one of them was getting shipped off to serve the Maker, it  just doubled as a punishment for Sebastian.

Ah, that's a really good point. I forgot  he said that!

Liso66 wrote...

Chylise wrote...
 Constantly telling him that he needs to retake Starkhaven nets Rivalry points, along with blantently cruel acts, siding with mages, and dissing the Chantry. If you metagame it a bit, you can max out his Rivalry without being a complete ******.

Here's guide that someone put together for Approval per act.

http://social.biowar...248/blog/26632/
http://social.biowar...248/blog/26634/

Thank you Chylise..  I'll check out the guides.. I am not good at being a complete ******, just a random one.  

Wow, I hadn't seen those guides! Outstanding! I'd been using the Dragon Age Wiki pages, which are not terribly complete for Sebastian. But, I also found that you can do it without having to be a total jerk. It just takes some massive metagaming, like Chylise said, since I didn't find these occasions to be obvious. But, I still had to take a friendship point here or there...like in my first convo after Repetence since I didn't get a flirt option if I went full rival.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 31 juillet 2011 - 12:12 .

[Ellyria]

R2s Muse wrote...
Wow, I hadn't seen those guides! Outstanding! I'd been using the Dragon Age Wiki pages, which are not terribly complete for Sebastian. But, I also found that you can do it without having to be a total jerk. It just takes some massive metagaming, like Chylise said, since I didn't find these occasions to be obvious. But, I still had to take a friendship point here or there...like in my first convo after Repetence since I didn't get a flirt option if I went full rival.

It's not necessary to flirt with Sebastian right after Repentence if you want to romance him, the flirty hearts in his Act 2 Questioning Beliefs will still be available if you told him to take Starkhaven and got rivalry points. But still... the post-Repentence flirt line is the best one, all the other ones are not pretty. 

[R2s Muse]

Chylise wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...
Wow, I hadn't seen those guides! Outstanding! I'd been using the Dragon Age Wiki pages, which are not terribly complete for Sebastian. But, I also found that you can do it without having to be a total jerk. It just takes some massive metagaming, like Chylise said, since I didn't find these occasions to be obvious. But, I still had to take a friendship point here or there...like in my first convo after Repetence since I didn't get a flirt option if I went full rival.

It's not necessary to flirt with Sebastian right after Repentence if you want to romance him, the flirty hearts in his Act 2 Questioning Beliefs will still be available if you told him to take Starkhaven and got rivalry points. But still... the post-Repentence flirt line is the best one, all the other ones are not pretty. 

Right; good clarification! Didn't mean to imply it was necessary. I just got so sad when I realized I had missed that flirt line (since there are so few), I had to reload. Plus, I agree, it's also my favorite one! Overall, I still think that whole conversation is my favorite. Like, the way he looks when he says that the Chantry made him a man... *swoon*.

[Sealy]

I romanced sebastian once, it was hard cause I wanted to be a princess and rival him but he just kept approving of everything. I went into the fade with just him... he stayed out but we were the only two in the party before I went in and he approved! Is this a bug?

[Chignon]

You gain friendship points by agreeing with Marethari that Feynriel needs to be stopped at all costs, if I remember correctly. If you want rivalry points, you'll have to tell her that you won't kill Feynriel.

[Sealy]

Ahh, thats where I went wrong. Thanks.

[Ellyria]

R2s Muse wrote...
Plus, I agree, it's also my favorite one! Overall, I still think that whole conversation is my favorite. Like, the way he looks when he says that the Chantry made him a man... *swoon*.

That conversation is definitely my favorite as well, with the Starkhaven Longbow convo as a close second. I love when Sebastian talks about his life before the Chantry.  I don't know if I'd want to see it though, seems like it would be overwhelming and scary to see him whoring and getting into barfights. 

[Thiefy]

you guys can put the Seb kiss to rest, the person who started that rumor apologized for starting it after i asked devs to deconfirm it.

[randomcheeses]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you guys can put the Seb kiss to rest, the person who started that rumor apologized for starting it after i asked devs to deconfirm it.

*sigh* Oh well, maybe next time.

[Shanra]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you guys can put the Seb kiss to rest, the person who started that rumor apologized for starting it after i asked devs to deconfirm it.

This makes me such a sad panda.  On my second playthrough, I friendmanced Seb, since I had already done Fenris, and Anders just doesn't appeal to me.. (plus I was playing against the mages).  

It sounds like the rival mance is a bit more juicy though. I'll have to try that..I wanted to be a princess, not a sister!

Ah well. I do wonder what we'll see of him in the future.

[Ellyria]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you guys can put the Seb kiss to rest, the person who started that rumor apologized for starting it after i asked devs to deconfirm it.

I'm not surprised, I didn't think that Bioware would make an extra romantic cutscene for "just a DLC character." <_< Especially because none of the other LIs get one.

I'm just happy that the romance was acknowledged.  I like the idea of husband and wife tearing it up on the battlefield.

[syllogi]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you guys can put the Seb kiss to rest, the person who started that rumor apologized for starting it after i asked devs to deconfirm it.

I felt pretty stupid asking in the first place, but that was when Legacy had first come out, and I didn't know how the rest of the banters worked.  If I had waited a day or so, it wouldn't have seemed plausible at all.

People who make things up for attention on the internet should be publicly mocked and shamed.