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[john-in-france]

randomcheeses wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

He's definitely the prettiest of the companions in DA2, I was disappointed you couldn't boink him. 

Not to mention one of the sanest, politest and mentally well-balanced.

Definitely the best man in the game.

[LessThanKate]

john-in-france wrote...

Just something I read elsewhere that the ladies of the SSG will have a wry smile at...totally applicable to Sebastian.
I have taken the liberty of replacing names to fit, instead of Schlock and Reverend, we have Sebastian and Varric alternate party banter...

Varric: Too bad about that celibacy thing.
Sebastian: My order doesn't do celibacy. We take an oath of chastity.
Varric: What's the difference?
Sebastian: When you are alone in a room with a beautiful woman you barely know... (sigh) There isn't a difference.
Varric: You religious people have too many words for "responsible behavior."

I support a chaste romance and a chaste marriage, I really hope this is what Bioware really meant. I can totally see the love side of this and the sex only in marriage ideal. Hopefully something that they will be addressing. Unlike the offscreen wedding....nope, not forgiven them that yet.
Judy

That was adorable.

And I...want to like the chaste marriage idea. Based on what little there is, it does seem like Sebastian's feelings for you are more genuine. The end of the "rivalmance" has him suggesting a powerful alliance; what the two of you could become as a political force. But the "friendmance" is more personal, as he says you mean the world to him. And maybe this is too little to go on, but the go-between with him and Bethany in Legacy has me worried he might revert to his old ways, and I do not want that.

It's a lot easier, for me anyway, to be his friend...but it's worrisome, too. Some of the things Sebastian says and does during the end of the game (the chaste marriage proposal included) makes me think he's still swayed easily by emotions.  

And yes, celibacy and chastity are related, but not the same. I don't know how it translates in terms of marriage, though...don't templars have those vows, too?  

john-in-france wrote...

Men I can trust at my side (Fenris sadly not in screenshot)

A lot of people complain that they don't need another archer...those people are not utilizing the skill trees properly. I brought the two archer princes with me most of the time (also Anders which...was a problem later on since I played warrior...Bethany, at least, is an acceptable subsitute on normal mode) and they can play very differently. 

Fidget6 wrote...

He's definitely the prettiest of the companions in DA2, I was disappointed you couldn't boink him.

Pretty much. 

Modifié par LessThanKate, 10 août 2011 - 01:51 .

[syllogi]

LessThanKate wrote...

That was adorable.

And I...want to like the chaste marriage idea. Based on what little there is, it does seem like Sebastian's feelings for you are more genuine. The end of the "rivalmance" has him suggesting a powerful alliance; what the two of you could become as a political force. But the "friendmance" is more personal, as he says you mean the world to him. And maybe this is too little to go on, but the go-between with him and Bethany in Legacy has me worried he might revert to his old ways, and I do not want that.

It's a lot easier, for me anyway, to be his friend...but it's worrisome, too. Some of the things Sebastian says and does during the end of the game (the chaste marriage proposal included) makes me think he's still swayed easily by emotions.  

And yes, celibacy and chastity are related, but not the same. I don't know how it translates in terms of marriage, though...don't templars have those vows, too?  

My problem with the friendship path is that it would change the way I roleplay my Hawke, and I don't like to metagame that way.  My Hawke isn't thrilled by the Chantry, even if she sides with the Templars and respects Grand Cleric Elthina.  

And I still don't see how a chaste marriage would be anything other than taking a vow of chastity along side Sebastian, since aren't you urging him to recommit to the Chantry on the friendship path?  My Hawke is just too practical, she would see more value in having him as a political ally as the leader of the largest city in the Free Marches, even if he might be more happy and at peace as a lay brother.

[john-in-france]

Back to the old Celibacy vs Chastity thingymajig...

Chastity: No sex outside of marriage. Thus chaste romance and marriage.
Celibacy: No sex at all.

The game and short story seem to be at odds on that. Maybe if Jennifer Heplar is still reading the thread, then she could enlighten us, as to which they really meant ?!?

I'm still writing Chaste marriage in fanfiction rather than celibacy. I figure that it fits with Friendmance Sebastian more. I don't see him as the straying type.

Hopefully Rivalled Sebastian will also turn out to be a flirt, but otherwise faithful sort.

Anyway I was about to report that the Troll was wrong, if Bethany/Carver died in the Deep Roads you do not get an endscene in Legacy with Sebastian. I had to play all the way through to find out...grrrr.

Off to try fully 100% Rivalmance if I can get my Hawke to behave, it will have to be Rogue Hawke this time methinks.

Judy.

PS Do you think this is like Origins where we had to harden Alistair to become King?

Modifié par john-in-france, 10 août 2011 - 02:33 .

[john-in-france]

LessThanKate wrote...


A lot of people complain that they don't need another archer...those people are not utilizing the skill trees properly. I brought the two archer princes with me most of the time (also Anders which...was a problem later on since I played warrior...Bethany, at least, is an acceptable subsitute on normal mode) and they can play very differently. 

I often have two archers and two warriors, there are some amazing combos not involving magic. It all depends on the Trees, but last game Varric was knocked out once (normal DA2), and Sebastian was knocked out once during Legacy. Otherwise the boys held their own!

Judy

[silentstephi]

So... the more I read (and also realize I NEED to play Legacy some time soon x.x) the more I have this sinking feeling that if you want the satisfying story with Prince Sebastian outcome ...it's really tough to get.

Am I hearing it wrong? In order to get more out of Legacy banter/whatever you have to friendmance him?

And does your Hawke have to side with the Templars to get the full Rivalmance ending with Sebastian? Or can you have, oh, I dunno, choice and go the Mages route?

This is probably the one thing that frustrates me the most about this character. That his story ISN'T finished. So his story isn't as satisfying to the player because we don't really get that sense of completion. And it seems a bit unfair to keep stringing it along with 'it's not finished, you'll see.' With no confirmation that this story will get finished in DLC... it's just irksome to the extreme.

Don't get me wrong, I love his character. He is a sheltered but sly sonovagun. He's passionate. He says things he regrets. He's freakin' smokin' hot. But, he's not perfect. He has flaws. It makes him believable.

All the characters in this game have flaws. Some are more vocal or obvious than others. But people are flawed. We still love them for the whole of their parts.

PS: Here's some adventures in modding that folks might appreciate. Though I really wish I could figure out how to put a Hawke body onto an NPC... it'd make my life so much easier. x.x

[rak72]

john-in-france wrote....


So how did you get the Seeker armour for Sebastian?
I mod often and would love this...ok my Hawke is a Seeker and I used the Inquisition mod.

Judy

I have the mod that lets you change companions armor, & I changed the Item variation.gda of one of the armors to make it the inquisition armor.   I think it was the coterie armor, it was kind of wierd when I ran into the coterie members wearing seeker armour.  I'm going to make a stand alone version of the seeker armor so that stops happening.

@ silent - I friendmanced him, killed Anders, then sidded with the mages & he was with me all the way.

What would suck is if his story continued to da3 and he moved on with someone else & hawk was left behind.  Hawk is a big enough looser as it is, that would just add insult to injury.

Modifié par rak72, 10 août 2011 - 03:32 .

[syllogi]

silentstephi wrote...

So... the more I read (and also realize I NEED to play Legacy some time soon x.x) the more I have this sinking feeling that if you want the satisfying story with Prince Sebastian outcome ...it's really tough to get.

Am I hearing it wrong? In order to get more out of Legacy banter/whatever you have to friendmance him?

And does your Hawke have to side with the Templars to get the full Rivalmance ending with Sebastian? Or can you have, oh, I dunno, choice and go the Mages route?

This is probably the one thing that frustrates me the most about this character. That his story ISN'T finished. So his story isn't as satisfying to the player because we don't really get that sense of completion. And it seems a bit unfair to keep stringing it along with 'it's not finished, you'll see.' With no confirmation that this story will get finished in DLC... it's just irksome to the extreme.

Don't get me wrong, I love his character. He is a sheltered but sly sonovagun. He's passionate. He says things he regrets. He's freakin' smokin' hot. But, he's not perfect. He has flaws. It makes him believable.

All the characters in this game have flaws. Some are more vocal or obvious than others. But people are flawed. We still love them for the whole of their parts.

PS: Here's some adventures in modding that folks might appreciate. Though I really wish I could figure out how to put a Hawke body onto an NPC... it'd make my life so much easier. x.x

If you don't friendmance him, in Legacy you get to hear him flirting with Bethany, and if you are a Female Hawke, she interrupts, but that's not dependent on your relationship with Sebastian at all, Hawke just has a different banter depending on her tone.  Male Hawke laughs at the flirting.  In a friendmance you get Bethany or Carver commenting on the marriage.

And, yeah, you don't have to side with the templars, although either way, in a rivalmance, his final words before the battle are ambiguous at best.  Either he doesn't think anything will ever happen between himself and Hawke, or he thinks they're going to die.  

I agree about the flaws...all of the characters in DA2 are flawed in obvious and not so obvious ways, and it's far more interesting that way.  It's why even when I dislike something one of them does, I can still empathize and like them for their other qualities.

Modifié par TeenZombie, 10 août 2011 - 03:47 .

[silentstephi]

rak72 wrote...

john-in-france wrote....


So how did you get the Seeker armour for Sebastian?
I mod often and would love this...ok my Hawke is a Seeker and I used the Inquisition mod.

Judy

I have the mod that lets you change companions armor, & I changed the Item variation.gda of one of the armors to make it the inquisition armor.   I think it was the coterie armor, it was kind of wierd when I ran into the coterie members wearing seeker armour.  I'm going to make a stand alone version of the seeker armor so that stops happening.

If I may ask, what mod is this?  And do you know if you have to keep it to the race type or not?

Also, if Sebastian's story continued in DA3 without Hawke in the picture, my faith in the BW writers would be shaken.  So far, so good.  But having him wander off?  Would kill the character for me. 

It's why as much as I'd LOVE for Cullen to be a romance in DA3... I know it won't happen.  The difference being, you can't have any sort of romantic entanglement with the Knight Captain, while with Sebs, it's pretty much laid out there.

I dunno.  I think I need to eat some breakfast, this is rapidly starting to make no sense.

[silentstephi]

TeenZombie wrote...

If you don't friendmance him, in Legacy you get to hear him flirting with Bethany, and if you are a Female Hawke, she interrupts, but that's not dependent on your relationship with Sebastian at all, Hawke just has a different banter depending on her tone.  Male Hawke laughs at the flirting.  In a friendmance you get Bethany or Carver commenting on the marriage.

Wait, so... if you rivalmance him... He starts flirting with your sister? 

...

...

FFS REALLY. -.-

/warrior Hawke SMASH

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

Smoking! Me wants....drool.

The main problem is we don't really know whether Friendmance or Rivalmance deliver the smoochies eventually. So to be sure I'm saving my two best games, one of each...

As long as you kill Anders, Sebastian will side with you in the endgame and the part romance flags will apparently be there for continuation.

If Sebastian ends up in another romance or married to someone else in a DLC or DA3 it will be because the romance was not completed. Also if Bioware do this regardless...I am going to kill them!

Friendmance Seb and you get married between endgame DA2 and then playing Legacy afterwards. No further details are available so far on the Rivalmance that I know of.

Judy

[john-in-france]

Sorry duplicated the post....ooops.

Modifié par john-in-france, 10 août 2011 - 04:38 .

[rak72]

Hi silent, It's this one:

http://dragonagenexu...ile.php?id=2646

For the elves & Dwarfs, you can put on different equip, but it will look like their regular garb. The humans change to whatever you put on them.

I think if you DON"T romance seb, he flirts with Beth. If you rivalmance, I think She tries to flirt with him. I could be wrong.

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

If you don't friendmance him, in Legacy you get to hear him flirting with Bethany, and if you are a Female Hawke, she interrupts, but that's not dependent on your relationship with Sebastian at all, Hawke just has a different banter depending on her tone.  Male Hawke laughs at the flirting.  In a friendmance you get Bethany or Carver commenting on the marriage.

Wait, so... if you rivalmance him... He starts flirting with your sister? 

...

...

FFS REALLY. -.-

/warrior Hawke SMASH

I really hated that. Then erased the saved Rivalmance in a fit of pique. So far my best hope is Friendmance...don't let us down Bioware!

[john-in-france]

rak72 wrote...

Hi silent, It's this one:

http://dragonagenexu...ile.php?id=2646

For the elves & Dwarfs, you can put on different equip, but it will look like their regular garb. The humans change to whatever you put on them.

I think if you DON"T romance seb, he flirts with Beth. If you rivalmance, I think She tries to flirt with him. I could be wrong.

Hmmm, I tried that mos a while back and Sebastians body went invisible.

He did flirt in Rivalmance...sadly.

Modifié par john-in-france, 10 août 2011 - 04:43 .

[rak72]

@ JIF

I think they updated it since then, He is now wearing noble clothes when you meet him. I made a set of armor on Nexus that will give you a set of stand alone Sebastian lookalike armor that won't override anything. You can equip him in that if you want him to still have his chastity belt from time to time

Ugh, rivalmance flirted!!! that's so not cool

Noble Clothes:



The gang decked out:

Modifié par rak72, 10 août 2011 - 04:51 .

[Ellyria]

From the Bethany/Sebastian banter, I thought he never actually flirted, that Bethany started to flirt with him and Lady Hawke interrupted before Sebastian could say anything? It's been a while since I last played Legacy, but I think that's what I remember happening.

@silent HAWKE WARRIOR SMASH indeed. I know the Rivalmance doesn't really end with them "together", but geez, I wouldn't want to be promised a prince and then have him flirt with my sister. O.o

[silentstephi]

Well, I'll be playing Legacy after I finish this latest playthrough (my first Sebastian romance... I know, late bloomer ).

It's spawning a whole new story for me, which is good.

But if we don't get SOME sort of conclusion... I'm going to go starkers.

@rak - thanks for the link, it's not quite what I wanted to do, so I'll have to do some more digging, but looks like I'm doomed, modding wise.
Also that noble outfit on Sebastian is freakin' awesome. Looks great!

[jamesp81]

Well, it is good to know how to get women to want me.

All I have to do is work out a lot and become the prince of an independent city state :happy:

Hmm.  I guess better cracking then

[rak72]

Chop Chop, James!!

[john-in-france]

rak72 wrote...


@ JIF

I think they updated it since then, He is now wearing noble clothes when you meet him. I made a set of armor on Nexus that will give you a set of stand alone Sebastian lookalike armor that won't override anything. You can equip him in that if you want him to still have his chastity belt from time to time

Ugh, rivalmance flirted!!! that's so not cool

Noble Clothes:



The gang decked out:

Owwww, I must download new mod, thanks for the headsup!

There is a Sebastian Armour mod that self updates, Starkhaven Armour mod.

[john-in-france]

jamesp81 wrote...

Well, it is good to know how to get women to want me.

All I have to do is work out a lot and become the prince of an independent city state :happy:

Hmm.  I guess better cracking then

Owww, don't worry, some us us liked Friendmanced Sebastian.

A longbow will definitely help the shoulders and arms, you know that they talk about Agincourt longbows (yew) of having a greater than 100lb pulling power, blackthorn welsh bows being even  more difficult. Believe me, any man that can pull that with great frequency (English archers are believed to have shot up to 10 arrows per minute) looks magnificent under those clothes.

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

Well, I'll be playing Legacy after I finish this latest playthrough (my first Sebastian romance... I know, late bloomer ).

It's spawning a whole new story for me, which is good.

But if we don't get SOME sort of conclusion... I'm going to go starkers.

@rak - thanks for the link, it's not quite what I wanted to do, so I'll have to do some more digging, but looks like I'm doomed, modding wise.
Also that noble outfit on Sebastian is freakin' awesome. Looks great!

No conclusion so far, just huge and I mean huge amounts of unrequited sexual tension...

[rak72]

Checked Youtube, Bethany is the one starting the flirting - that little ... NM.  Sebastian was just being kind of gentalmanly:


This is the Sebatian Armor mod I have on Nexus - "Starkhaven Knockoff".  It auto levels



http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=2992

Modifié par rak72, 10 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[john-in-france]

Speaking of the Sebastian friendmance, remember when he proposes and says that nothing would keep you apart?

I've been reading again, and...nearly spat my coffee all over the place when I read this in Mechthild, Light of the Divine (1250 AD) medieval mystics...you'll like this:

Nothing shall come between them:
Then a blessed stillness
That both desire comes over them.
He surrenders himself to her,
And she surrenders herself to him.

This whole book is about seeing the divine in another person, remember the 'I can not take another bride than Andraste' flirt. So makes sense now.

My Sebastian/Brighid courtship fiction progresses, will let you know when I post just in case you are interested. I always finish my fiction before posting, I hate people who walk away from their stories, especially when I've been following it for weeks.

Judy