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[silentstephi]

They've been good so far at not making choices as 'wrong' BUT... there should be decent permutations to the choices I guess is what I'm going for.

Though I wonder, if there is a Sebastian influenced Starkhaven dealing DLC... what's going to happen to the folks who made him a Brother?

Right now, friendmancers are getting the extra byplay, the chaste marriage and what not.
Rivalmancers are getting... a line in Legacy and... what? Some REALLY VAGUE wish that they'd met in different times? Possible alliance? Maybe? If that?

Rivalmancing him seems to be the short end of the stick NOW... but how are you going to rope a Brother into Starkhaven. Prince Sebastian will be all over it. But it's Bioware, they won't do something unless it's sorta fair.

Right? Are my glasses to rosy for this?
I don't want to short shrift the Friendmancers... but I'm feeling embittered by how Rivalmancer's have to pretty much rely on fanfiction at this point to get any sort of continuation... and that's rife with... well, just not good. My version of Starkhaven/what happens won't be the same as anothers... and I dunno.

Too early to try and keep speculating.
I'm gonna grab some food.

Aaaaand top of the page again!  *fist pump*  OMG and it's page 69.... PRESSURE.
Ummmm.... DOUBLE PICTURE!

Modifié par silentstephi, 12 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[LessThanKate]

TeenZombie wrote...

john-in-france wrote...

silentstephi wrote...

... So, there were all of two lines that a Rivalmance'd Sebastian gets in that DLC.
I feel robbed. -.-

/siiiiiiiiiiigh
Did I get chills over the whole family thing? Yes. It was well done in that regard. But... honestly. Can they toss us a bone? Somewhere? Anywhere? Anytime freakin' soon?!

-.-

See why I friendmance?

I had a good amount of dialogue with Sebastian when I friendmanced, and took Fenris, Grey warden Bethany, Sebastian and Hawke on Legacy. Less dialogue when friendmanced, and party was Varric, Aveline, Sebastian and Hawke. I think they have a priority screen play, where if X is in party it overrides the LI.
Next time I'm thinking Isabela in the party for giggles.

There is no cutscene with Sebastian at the end of Legacy before you speak to your mother. Its Gamlen or sibling. The troll lied.

As a word of warning, John took Merrill on Legacy, and she did the strange glowy eye thing at the end. Remember that Corypheus can control darkspawn, wardens and bloodmages.
Also he isn't dead, and it doesn't matter which side you take, one of them leaves possessed. So for future gameplay sanity, unless you want Merrill batting for the bad guys, leave her at home. John had  rivalled Merrill sworn off of bloodmagic, and she still had that moment.

Judy

SIGH.

Although I still feel like rivaling Sebastian was right for that particular Hawke, it does bug me that I "chose wrong" if I wanted any content for a character by playing a certain way.  It also feels like you're supposed to take Varric, Anders, and your sibling with you in Legacy for the most dialogue.  I'll have to do that next time, but bleh...

I have multiple saves with the same Hawke (because I can't romance a single character as several PCs; it just...doesn't feel right to me), so it's just a matter of deciding which one I like better as "canon". I try to justify it in different ways so it doesn't feel like metagaming. I romanced Sebastian with a mostly Helpful/Diplomatic Hawke (about 10% aggressive) so in the friendship path, when Bethany mentions the "marriage", she gives a very content, "It was beautiful,". I think a Charming/Sarcastic Hawke says, "I know! Weird, right?" Either way, Bethany seems both happy for her sister and...a little distressed that she can't have that happiness. 

And to be fair about Legacy...I've heard Fenris people were lacking, too. Even the Merrill bit, cute as it was, could be off-putting since she's implying a lack of excitment with Hawke. If there was anyone to romance to get the absolute most out of this DLC, it was Anders. I get the impression that--romance or not--Anders, Varric, and your sibling are the ones you were supposed to bring.

Also have to keep in mind it's supposed to take place before "The Last Straw", so Sebastian hasn't made any more progress with Starrkhaven and Hawke hasn't become viscount yet. At that point, in the rivalry path, there's a long way to go, a lot of work to be done. So I am willing to wait. Patience and endurance seem to be key virtues with Sebastian. Almost makes me wish I liked brooding alcoholics and/or ranting radicals. Allllllmost.




Awww! Poor thing, he was just trying to help! Well, I'm sure there's plenty of Lady Hawkes whose cocking rings could use some adjusting.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 12 août 2011 - 03:40 .

[Chignon]

LessThanKate wrote...

I've heard Fenris people were lacking, too.

Which is because the romance flags seem to be bugged.

LessThanKate wrote...
Also have to keep in mind it's supposed to take place before "The Last Straw", so Sebastian hasn't made any more progress with Starrkhaven and Hawke hasn't become viscount yet. At that point, in the rivalry path, there's a long way to go, a lot of work to be done. 

I find it strange that only because there hasn't been progress with Starkhaven, the rivalry romance isn't mentioned again or brought up at all.  Are they not going to talk to each other again until both of them have secured their respective positions? That seems a tad unrealistic.

Modifié par Chignon, 12 août 2011 - 03:37 .

[LessThanKate]

Chignon wrote...

LessThanKate wrote...

I've heard Fenris people were lacking, too.

Which is because the romance flags seem to be bugged.

Oh...welll...damn it, then.

Chignon wrote...

I find it strange that only because there hasn't been progress with Starkhaven, the rivalry romance isn't mentioned again or brought up at all.  Are they not going to talk to each other again until both of them have secured their respective positions? That seems a tad unrealistic.

I know. I try to rationalize as best I can, give the benefit of the doubt, but...it doesn't mae it much easier to deal with.

It's especially odd since, up until the final discussion, the flirting lines are the same. It makes me worry that Sebastian's feelings aren't as genuine in rivalmance as they are in friendmance. Or that he sees the possible marriage as merely a political alliance. Tough love is still love, and should be acknowledged.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 12 août 2011 - 03:48 .

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

They've been good so far at not making choices as 'wrong' BUT... there should be decent permutations to the choices I guess is what I'm going for.

Though I wonder, if there is a Sebastian influenced Starkhaven dealing DLC... what's going to happen to the folks who made him a Brother?

Right now, friendmancers are getting the extra byplay, the chaste marriage and what not.
Rivalmancers are getting... a line in Legacy and... what? Some REALLY VAGUE wish that they'd met in different times? Possible alliance? Maybe? If that?

Rivalmancing him seems to be the short end of the stick NOW... but how are you going to rope a Brother into Starkhaven. Prince Sebastian will be all over it. But it's Bioware, they won't do something unless it's sorta fair.

Right? Are my glasses to rosy for this?
I don't want to short shrift the Friendmancers... but I'm feeling embittered by how Rivalmancer's have to pretty much rely on fanfiction at this point to get any sort of continuation... and that's rife with... well, just not good. My version of Starkhaven/what happens won't be the same as anothers... and I dunno.

Too early to try and keep speculating.
I'm gonna grab some food.

Aaaaand top of the page again!  *fist pump*  OMG and it's page 69.... PRESSURE.
Ummmm.... DOUBLE PICTURE!

Page 69, my head may burst from that image, and that was before I saw yours. Evil temptress!

I think they will get both Sebastians back to Starkhaven, that is the only way that they can play it for a DLC.
So Rivalled, no problem he is there like a shot.
Friendmanced, well...he did say that if the madness spread then Starkhaven would need a strong ruler, which gave the implication that he might go back to Starkhaven if necessary.

Of course if they decide to do opposites this time:
Rivalled Sebastian: You become Princess of Starkhaven with Smoochies and romance scenes.
Friendmanced: They decide that we are in fact in a celibate marriage. Ouch!
Worst case scenario for both: They use the same rules about marriage as they did for Alistair, no mage marriage.

I could go nuts thinking about that...

Judy

[silentstephi]

As silly as this may sound... I'm starting to really empathize with the Kaidan/Ash fans back in ME2...

That's what this is feeling like to me. -.-

[Chignon]

LessThanKate wrote...

It's especially odd since, up until the final discussion, the flirting lines are the same.

I actually think the flirt lines are not quiet in-character for a Hawke who pursues a friendship romance.

LessThanKate wrote...

It makes me worry that Sebastian's feelings aren't as genuine in rivalmance as they are in friendmance. Tough love is still love, and should be acknowledged.

Sebastian doesn't seem the type. Although, the rivalry romance could start out as more of a political union.  Which is, in my opinion, part of the appeal.

Modifié par Chignon, 12 août 2011 - 03:50 .

[john-in-france]

LessThanKate wrote...

Awww! Poor thing, he was just trying to help! Well, I'm sure there's plenty of Lady Hawkes whose cocking rings could use some adjusting.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Coffee over the screen, ooops.

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

As silly as this may sound... I'm starting to really empathize with the Kaidan/Ash fans back in ME2...

That's what this is feeling like to me. -.-

A taste of the future from the Kinkmeme. Hawke goes to see a fortune teller to help her chose between Anders and Sebastian...Here. Only click if you are happy to read adult fiction a la Varric and Isabela. Not mine.

Modifié par john-in-france, 12 août 2011 - 04:00 .

[LessThanKate]

silentstephi wrote...

As silly as this may sound... I'm starting to really empathize with the Kaidan/Ash fans back in ME2...

That's what this is feeling like to me. -.-

My sentiments exactly! It's still fresh in my memory, just feeling cheated. That Bioware may have plans down the road, but at that moment it's like they're telling you you picked the wrong love interest. Hoping against hope for some Virmire Survivor DLC where the realtionship could begin to be salvaged. The disappointment when there's only the tiniest reference to them in Lair of the Shadowbroker and it's only in a frustrated light, whereas you could speak fondly of a new love interest.

Well...for Ash and Kai there will be ME3. What will become of Sebastian is still up in the air.  

Chignon wrote...


I actually think the flirt lines are not quiet in-character for a Hawke who pursues a friendship romance.

Yeah, "Nobody tells a prince what to do. Or who to do it with!" does not sound like something anyone interested in a chaste marriage would say. Not that that would be my ideal for a Hawke pursuing an alliance to say, either. Real classy.

Chignon wrote...

Sebastian doesn't seem the type. Although, the rivalry romance could start out as more of a political union.  Which is, in my opinion, part of the appeal.

I can see that. I guess there's no saying that it can simply start out as political and become more later on. I always liked that idea for a male Cousland and Anora.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 12 août 2011 - 04:12 .

[silentstephi]

So... ok, I'm about to go into pet peeve mode. Most likely, I'm in the tiny minority here. Feel free to ignore me.

Why do folks feel the need to take the accent and bring the dialogue into the game?
Example: Have we ever, EVER, heard Sebastian call someone lass or lad in the game? (I've played it a few times through and off the top of my head, can't remember one lick of it.)
It seems jarring when a writer tosses that into the mix when it's not something we've heard from the character before.

I know Varric's said lad, so I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility... I'm just... ug. I dunno. I need to go back to my cave.

[syllogi]

Chignon wrote...

LessThanKate wrote...

I've heard Fenris people were lacking, too.

Which is because the romance flags seem to be bugged.

LessThanKate wrote...
Also have to keep in mind it's supposed to take place before "The Last Straw", so Sebastian hasn't made any more progress with Starrkhaven and Hawke hasn't become viscount yet. At that point, in the rivalry path, there's a long way to go, a lot of work to be done. 

I find it strange that only because there hasn't been progress with Starkhaven, the rivalry romance isn't mentioned again or brought up at all.  Are they not going to talk to each other again until both of them have secured their respective positions? That seems a tad unrealistic.

My Hawke doesn't care if Sebastian isn't a leader.  She'd just like to know that her affection is reciprocated after that one conversation talking of a political arrangement.  The talk before the final battle led me to believe that rivalry meant no romance, and then I got my hopes up for Legacy due to rumors...now I'm back to thinking that there's no relationship for someone who flirted rivalry-wise.

It's kind of sad when your player character is jealous of a belt.  

[silentstephi]

LessThanKate wrote...

silentstephi wrote...

As silly as this may sound... I'm starting to really empathize with the Kaidan/Ash fans back in ME2...

That's what this is feeling like to me. -.-

My sentiments exactly! It's still fresh in my memory, just feeling cheated. Hoping against hope for some Virmire Survivor DLC where the realtionship could begin to be salvaged. The disappointment when there's only the tiniest reference to them in Lair of the Shadowbroker and it's only in a frustrated light, whereas you could speak fondly of a new love interest.

Well...for Ash and Kai there will be ME3. What will become of Sebastian is still up in the air.  

Yea, it took them a bit, but the Ash/Kaidan fans will hopefully get their big payout.  I was always on the outside of that whole thing.  Garrus is my fav there.  I about exploded into squee when I saw him as a romance.

I'm just hoping, now that they've said that each of the DA games are going to be different PCs, that they don't just leave us hanging with Sebastian.  I like the different romances, but this would be the worst implimented one ever.  They don't seem like the types to do that to us. 

*wipes off some dust from those glasses*

[R2s Muse]

TeenZombie wrote...

The talk before the final battle led me to believe that rivalry meant no romance, and then I got my hopes up for Legacy due to rumors...now I'm back to thinking that there's no relationship for someone who flirted rivalry-wise.

It's kind of sad when your player character is jealous of a belt.  

You've summed up everything I felt about the rivalry romance. Jealous of a belt, indeed. LMAO!

[Ellyria]

silentstephi wrote...

So... ok, I'm about to go into pet peeve mode. Most likely, I'm in the tiny minority here. Feel free to ignore me.

Why do folks feel the need to take the accent and bring the dialogue into the game?
Example: Have we ever, EVER, heard Sebastian call someone lass or lad in the game? (I've played it a few times through and off the top of my head, can't remember one lick of it.)
It seems jarring when a writer tosses that into the mix when it's not something we've heard from the character before.

I know Varric's said lad, so I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility... I'm just... ug. I dunno. I need to go back to my cave.

*raises hand* You are not alone. I've read a few things in Sebastian fics that have me scratching my head and saying "Did he ever actually use that term in the game, ever?"

*crosses all her fingers and toes for a Starkhaven DLC* I'm hoping when Ms. Hepler said Sebastian's story wasn't over, that means "Starkhaven DLC!" and not "He's going to be in DLC if you kept him as a companion!" And hopefully both Rivalmances and Friendmances will get closure.

Modifié par Chylise, 12 août 2011 - 04:21 .

[LessThanKate]

silentstephi wrote...

So... ok, I'm about to go into pet peeve mode. Most likely, I'm in the tiny minority here. Feel free to ignore me.

Why do folks feel the need to take the accent and bring the dialogue into the game?
Example: Have we ever, EVER, heard Sebastian call someone lass or lad in the game? (I've played it a few times through and off the top of my head, can't remember one lick of it.)
It seems jarring when a writer tosses that into the mix when it's not something we've heard from the character before.

I know Varric's said lad, so I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility... I'm just... ug. I dunno. I need to go back to my cave.

I'm...trying not to imagine Sebastian talking like Groundskeeper Willy right now XD


Sebastian: It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Fereldens and Free Marchers! Or Orelesians and Free Marchers! Or Antivans and Free Marchers! Or Free Marchers and other Free Marchers! Damn Free Marchers! They ruined the Free Marches!

Aveline: You Free Marchers sure are a contentious people.

Sebastian: You just made an enemy for life!


(Yes, I know people from the Free Marches don't refer to themselves as "Free Marchers", but I can't think of an alternative. What do people from Starkhaven even call themselves? Starkhavenites?) 


Anyway...Apparently some writers can't grasp dialect. He might be Scottish-sounding, but he's not actually Scottish, and on top of that, a prince. Wouldn't it make more sense if he spoke more eloquently?

silentstephi wrote...

Yea, it took them a bit, but the Ash/Kaidan fans will hopefully get their big payout.  I was always on the outside of that whole thing.  Garrus is my fav there.  I about exploded into squee when I saw him as a romance.

I'm just hoping, now that they've said that each of the DA games are going to be different PCs, that they don't just leave us hanging with Sebastian.  I like the different romances, but this would be the worst implimented one ever.  They don't seem like the types to do that to us. 

*wipes off some dust from those glasses*

I'm a big Garrus fan, too, so that eased some of the pain. Really, that I was excited about more than one ME love interest was a relief. I have not had the same luck with Dragon Age. Don't get me wrong, I like most of them as characters, but I felt no sense of urgency to get to know them on a romantic level. Sebastian, quite frankly, is the only one I was excited to romance, and he's not technically a love interest at all.

Ideally, this could parallel the whole ME situation...just a matter of being rewarded now or later.

That being said, I don't know whether it's even fair to be disappointed or not. It's not Bioware's fault I'm ridiculously picky.    

Modifié par LessThanKate, 12 août 2011 - 04:39 .

[john-in-france]

silentstephi wrote...

So... ok, I'm about to go into pet peeve mode. Most likely, I'm in the tiny minority here. Feel free to ignore me.

Why do folks feel the need to take the accent and bring the dialogue into the game?
Example: Have we ever, EVER, heard Sebastian call someone lass or lad in the game? (I've played it a few times through and off the top of my head, can't remember one lick of it.)
It seems jarring when a writer tosses that into the mix when it's not something we've heard from the character before.

I know Varric's said lad, so I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility... I'm just... ug. I dunno. I need to go back to my cave.

As a Scot myself, I just don't hear those things as jarring. I apologise, I recommended it, I did not write it. All the same, bad, Judy. I must think of non Scots before I open my big mouth.
As a possible salvage, brogue becomes more pronounced when a person becomes more emotional or...heat of the moment so to speak. John has a Lowland brogue, and I have a Highland one, hearing a replica in literature does not phase me.

I also write Sebastian as occassionally saying lass. It really is a Scottish accent thing...

[john-in-france]

LessThanKate wrote...

Sebastian: It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Fereldens and Free Marchers! Or Orelesians and Free Marchers! Or Antivans and Free Marchers! Or Free Marchers and other Free Marchers! Damn Free Marchers! They ruined the Free Marches!

Aveline: You Free Marchers sure are a contentious people.

Sebastian: You just made an enemy for life!


(Yes, I know people from the Free Marches don't refer to themselves as "Free Marchers", but I can't think of an alternative. What do people from Starkhaven even call themselves? Starkhavenites?) 


Anyway...Apparently some writers can't grasp dialect. He might be Scottish-sounding, but he's not actually Scottish, and on top of that, a prince. Wouldn't it make more sense if he spoke more eloquently?

First.... Marchers.
Two...Not Scottish and damn Bioware for making him sound so, so attractive to those of us who actually are.
Three...Expect very good English, and you do get that. Both Sebastian and Fenris speak impeccable British English. Which also does not help those of us who are British and hear our accents, and then the head does the really nutso thing of equivalency.

Must go edit story due to this. Thank you for pointing out the fallacy...no more Sebastian in a kilt (cruel women) unless Bioware write it into DLC. I still think that Sebastian in a kilt is cute...just saying.

[Xilizhra]

How do you people feel that Sebastian compares to Leliana?

[LessThanKate]

john-in-france wrote...

Must go edit story due to this. Thank you for pointing out the fallacy...no more Sebastian in a kilt (cruel women) unless Bioware write it into DLC. I still think that Sebastian in a kilt is cute...just saying.

Whoah, whoah, whoah! No kilts? Let's not go crazy! Sebastian may never use common Scottish terms, but who's to say kilts (or kilt-like garments...suppose it could be called something else in this world) aren't at the height of Starkhaven fashion? We haven't gone there yet, maybe everyone wears them there!

No, the idea of Sebastian in a kilt has my full support...or lack thereof.

[Chignon]

TeenZombie wrote...

My Hawke doesn't care if Sebastian isn't a leader.  She'd just like to know that her affection is reciprocated after that one conversation talking of a political arrangement.  The talk before the final battle led me to believe that rivalry meant no romance, and then I got my hopes up for Legacy due to rumors...now I'm back to thinking that there's no relationship for someone who flirted rivalry-wise.

It's kind of sad when your player character is jealous of a belt.  

The last conversation in the Gallows led me to believe that there might develop something later on so I had placed my hopes on Legacy. Apparently, it is true for one and untrue for the other.

[silentstephi]

Sorry JIP, I wasn't trying to pick on folks.

Different strokes for different folks. If you like your Sebastian in a kilt, have at it. XD

And you see it in movies and even some books, folks who have a brogue or accent tend to fall into it more readily when emotional (I apparently get a pretty pissy southern tang when I get mad, and I've lived in the northern US for most of my life. It's my Fa's fault, he's from the South and Midwest. Yay Navy Brats!)

It's just when folks start using it as their 'normal' or 'default' speech pattern that I get jarred out of the story. Hawke says bloody as a swear. It's rare, but it's there. BW is pretty good at making up their own world swears though (Andraste's Flaming Ass is my favorite...)

And Xilizhra, other than the fact that the two characters are rogues and have a strong tie to the Chantry... I don't see them being all that similar? Then again I'm not a huge Leiliana fan, so I haven't really thought much on it.

[silentstephi]

@Chignon - Hell LEGACY has left us off on such a cliffhanger... if they don't do a follow up... it'd be awful writing. But the next one better either be just a straight up XPac or worth the full 800 points.

Legacy should have really been a 560. : /
Damn you EA. There's making money and then there's being a rip off. -.-

[Xilizhra]

What's wrong with Legacy, exactly? Were people who weren't the sibling, Varric or Anders supposed to get any lines?

[syllogi]

Xilizhra wrote...

How do you people feel that Sebastian compares to Leliana?

They're pretty different, in my opinion, both in their outlook, and how they came to their faith, but they do have some similarities too, probably more than some people would admit to.

Sebastian was forced into the Chantry.  He knew from a young age that he was going to be packed off, and so he probably rebelled, as teenagers will.  His eventual faith in the Maker was an acceptance of his lot in life.  If he had taken Elthina's offer of freedom, he could not just go back to Starkhaven, his parents would have been furious.  So I think it might have started as making the best of the situation, and eventually he realized that he really did believe that he was where he needed to be.

Leliana also was kind of a "wild child" when she found her way to the Chantry, but she had different reasons.  She was in pain from Marjolaine's betrayal, she had been given food for thought by Dorothea's kindness and help when she didn't think she would find any, and she also was looking for meaning in her life, more than just the next big score or getting revenge against her enemies.

Then, Sebastian's family was murdered, and his faith was put to the test, while Leliana had visions that led her to believe that she was meant to fight the blight.  I think that this difference in their respective stories is key; Sebastian was in a crisis when Hawke met him, while Leliana had not had her faith challenged, but rather affirmed in her own unique way.  So while Sebastian flounders when he isn't sure where he belongs, Leliana finds her way back to the Chantry when she parts ways with the Warden, with confidence in her faith.

I think the big difference is that Leliana's story is more complete.  She had her time of adversity and crisis before the Warden ever met her, and she's pretty secure in who she is and where she belongs by the time of DA2.  Sebastian's story is still a work in progress, even at the very end of DA2, and we don't know how the events will shape him, either to make him a better person or make him completely driven by his need for vengeance.  

I guess we'll see for both of them, in either DLC or DA3.