2724 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

john-in-france wrote...
At end game Sebastian does not have any vows, he broke them to avenge his family and Elthina never let him retake them. How persuasive is your Hawke?

So, no matter what Sebastian doesn't retake his vows? Because I figured my Hawke would be holed up in a Chantry somewhere with him living under an assumed name while everything else goes to hell in a handbasket.

[Ellyria]

Monica21 wrote...

john-in-france wrote...
At end game Sebastian does not have any vows, he broke them to avenge his family and Elthina never let him retake them. How persuasive is your Hawke?

So, no matter what Sebastian doesn't retake his vows? Because I figured my Hawke would be holed up in a Chantry somewhere with him living under an assumed name while everything else goes to hell in a handbasket.

According to the Codex, Sebastian never retakes his vows as of the beginning of Act III, and we never see him take them in Act III at all. So even if you Friended/Friendmanced him and he plans to retake his vows, we never see him do it, nor is it ever implied that he does.

[syllogi]

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

Mary Kirby wrote some interesting posts in the Varric thread recently here and here, talking about why Varric can't be a romance option as he is currently written, that pertain to my thoughts on Sebastian, both friend and rivalry wise. I just don't think the writers wanted to make things "easy" on the player who chooses Sebastian as an LI. Having him simply forget about both the Chantry and retaking Starkhaven and focusing on giving Hawke backrubs and asking her how her day went would be pretty frikkin' sweet, but it's unlikely. IF we get Starkhaven DLC, I don't think whatever state a romance with Sebastian is currently in, would be settled before it started, and I don't think either path would be smooth.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

[Ellyria]

TeenZombie wrote...

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

Mary Kirby wrote some interesting posts in the Varric thread recently here and here, talking about why Varric can't be a romance option as he is currently written, that pertain to my thoughts on Sebastian, both friend and rivalry wise. I just don't think the writers wanted to make things "easy" on the player who chooses Sebastian as an LI. Having him simply forget about both the Chantry and retaking Starkhaven and focusing on giving Hawke backrubs and asking her how her day went would be pretty frikkin' sweet, but it's unlikely. IF we get Starkhaven DLC, I don't think whatever state a romance with Sebastian is currently in, would be settled before it started, and I don't think either path would be smooth.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

Since the Sebastianmance isn't easy, the priiiiiize better be awesome. :lol:

Seriously though, I'm looking forward to his story much more, because we should be seeing it, whether we romanced him or not. I just hope we get some kind of satisfaction from romancing him, not left hanging and never to be seen again.

[The Xand]

I love how everyone in this thread wants to bone the celibate Scotsman. There's a pretty Welsh elf to satiate your needs of that sort instead

Reckon there will be a Starkhaven expansion pack with a romanceable Seb though, because nothing screams achievement like seducing a celibate man and becoming the joint ruler of his kingdom.

[Sepewrath]

Celibate? He's not celibate, haven't seen it myself, but I believe he is suppose to marry Hawke. Cant imagine why he would want to do that lol.

[syllogi]

PurebredCorn wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

I get this, totally. But why did they have to make him so damned attractive? His VA rocks, and Sebastian is one of the best looking guys in the game! They could have made him ugly, then it wouldn't be such torture.

And the voice.  Oh wow, the voice.  I KNEW that there had to be a catch, as soon as the Exiled Prince trailer was released and it was revealed that Alec Newman was his VA.  

Yeah, they knew what they were doing.  DAMN YOU, BIOWARE.  

[john-in-france]

Modifié par john-in-france, 26 août 2011 - 08:22 .

[john-in-france]

The Xand wrote...

I love how everyone in this thread wants to bone the celibate Scotsman. There's a pretty Welsh elf to satiate your needs of that sort instead

Reckon there will be a Starkhaven expansion pack with a romanceable Seb though, because nothing screams achievement like seducing a celibate man and becoming the joint ruler of his kingdom.

He was sold in DLC as a full companion/LI, and we found out the truth by playing the game.
So we are not being Pervy Prince Fanciers! (much)



Besides, as a Scot myself, I'm drawn to that Lowland brogue, I'd prefer Highland but hey, a Scottish accent in a game...come on.

I don't find Merrill or Isabela even slightly attractive other than as friends...sorry. If I did RPG a female/female relationship it would be with someone like Aveline or Cassandra.
Judy.

Modifié par john-in-france, 26 août 2011 - 09:26 .

[john-in-france]

john-in-france wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

Mary Kirby wrote some interesting posts in the Varric thread recently here and here, talking about why Varric can't be a romance option as he is currently written, that pertain to my thoughts on Sebastian, both friend and rivalry wise. I just don't think the writers wanted to make things "easy" on the player who chooses Sebastian as an LI. Having him simply forget about both the Chantry and retaking Starkhaven and focusing on giving Hawke backrubs and asking her how her day went would be pretty frikkin' sweet, but it's unlikely. IF we get Starkhaven DLC, I don't think whatever state a romance with Sebastian is currently in, would be settled before it started, and I don't think either path would be smooth.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

Thank you for that link. A very interesting read on their romance take...which explains a lot.

I think that the comments in Legacy if played after standard DA2 endgame, may just have been bones...as in give a dog a bone to keep it quiet.

Sometimes I wonder if Sebastian would have been better off if like Aveline and Varric he was not really romanceable...

So lets share takes on Biowares romance comments...please do chip in with opinions.

Boy meets girl ...yes a spectacular head turn moment.
Boy brushes girl off...we get the gold from the Duty quest, but Seb never even asks our name as he is too busy thinking of Starkhaven or thinks we are beneath him?
Girl makes a name for herself and reclaims family seat.
Boy realises girl is a noble, and an Amell. His mother used to speak approvingly of the Amells of Kirkwall.
Boy needs help with the Harrimans.
Boy is embarassed by explicit scene in front of girl, (he obviously wouldn't be by himself as a former rake)
Boy has a crisis of conscience about retaking Starkhaven.
Girl has an opinion on the matter.
Boy accidently (?)  flirts, and is embarassed when girl calls him on it.
Girl restores lost family heirloom and gets to see beneath the calm mask.
Girl re-inforces her opinion on Starkhaven/Chantry.
Boy starts seeing girl regularly in a non-romantic manner.
Boy has a crisis of faith/panic over developing relationship/Starkhaven.
Girl flirts badly...twice (ackkkkk), mentioning a one night stand...
Boy uses a part truth to answer her flirts (I took a vow - past tense), and then underlines that he is not interested in promiscuity any more.
Boy and girl continue working together.
Boy learns that the Chantry and Templar have their problems. (necessary for inner angst)
Boy comes to like/respect girl.
Girls mother die horribly.
Boy offers condolences talking the next day (and perhaps the worst missing scene of the romance)
Qunari rampage over Kirkwall.
Boy gets caught eyeing Meredith (look back a few pages for Seb and Fenris giving Meredith that look)
Girl agrees to duel the Arishok because she judges the odds too high to risk the boy (this may play differently in your own version)
Girl becomes Champion.
Boy continues to work with girl.
Boys surrogate mother needs help.
Boy and girl give that help.
Boy admits to staying in Kirkwall to protect his surrogate mother, and girl (unless girl is warrior).
Girl flirts.
Boy avoids answering.
More working together.
Boy suggests that girl becomes viscountess.
Boy proposes to girl (friendmance) or proposes alliance between Viscountess of Kirkwall and Prince of Starkhaven (rivalmance).
Boy is worried about the breakdown in relationships between Chantry and Meredith.
Boy and girl continue to work together.
Sibling is kidnapped, boy and girl work on a rescue mission.
Mage and Templar problems.
Chantry boom, killing surrogate mother.
Make or break moment in romance - girl killing Anders is necessary.
Mage or Templar ending.

Legacy played after Templar ending friendmance, boy is married to girl. Mage ending rivalmance, boy flirts (debatable) with girls Grey warden sister.

Looks like one epic  romance to me (though some of the flirt lines ), a rollercoaster on the grand scale of things, and I really hope that they finish it...

Judy

edited for spelling.



 

[Eliantariel]

TeenZombie wrote...

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

Mary Kirby wrote some interesting posts in the Varric thread recently here and here, talking about why Varric can't be a romance option as he is currently written, that pertain to my thoughts on Sebastian, both friend and rivalry wise. I just don't think the writers wanted to make things "easy" on the player who chooses Sebastian as an LI. Having him simply forget about both the Chantry and retaking Starkhaven and focusing on giving Hawke backrubs and asking her how her day went would be pretty frikkin' sweet, but it's unlikely. IF we get Starkhaven DLC, I don't think whatever state a romance with Sebastian is currently in, would be settled before it started, and I don't think either path would be smooth.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

Thank you very much for the links - I hadn't seen this before and this was very interesting.

I must say I really like Sebastian and I started a friendship romance with him. I was checking wiki and youtube for difference between rival and friendship romance. It is quite difficult to get him on rivalry without doing things that my Hawke doesn't want to do. I like friendship more (despite the chaste marriage) because I fear that on rivalry he will become more the person he was before - only interested in his own pleasures and I like his calm personality (but his punch during the repentance quest was awesome ).

Concerning the chaste marriage: I have the impression that Bioware meant celibacy and not chastity - in Legacy when Sebastian is talking with Carver, Hawke says "Aww. Would it make you feel better if I slept with him? Because I totally would. Right here". So even after the "marriage" they have not slept together.

[LessThanKate]

TeenZombie wrote...

PurebredCorn wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

The whole point of maxing friendship with Sebastian, however, is convincing him to retake his vows and dedicate himself fully to the Chantry.

At least, if they're set on telling a good story, I don't think things are going to be easy for Sebastianmancers. And I do hope they want to give us that content.

I get this, totally. But why did they have to make him so damned attractive? His VA rocks, and Sebastian is one of the best looking guys in the game! They could have made him ugly, then it wouldn't be such torture.

And the voice.  Oh wow, the voice.  I KNEW that there had to be a catch, as soon as the Exiled Prince trailer was released and it was revealed that Alec Newman was his VA.  

Yeah, they knew what they were doing.  DAMN YOU, BIOWARE.  

I find myself getting rather frustrated when people stumble on the realization of the friendmance. That their time was wasted since it doesn't even end in implied sexytimes. It's mostly irritating because the endgame was clear from the start; the friendship..."branch" of his specialization tree was "Man of the Cloth". Meaning--assuming you couldn't connect the dots already--by being his friend, you're pushing him to stay with the Chantry, you're telling him what he wants to hear. You think staying a priest is a good idea...so what did you think would happen? Really, a chaste marriage is best case scenario for that choice.

...Well, I guess it could be better if Chantry brothers more resmbled Protestant Reverends, since they can get "traditionally" married, but...point is, I don't like that people get mad at the character becuase they don't know how to read or pay attention.

As for his...features, well...shoot. Before him, I was more than willing to settle for...I think I was leaning towards Anders. Of course, then I played the game, and I feel I dodged a bullet. That's but a personal preference, but I don't regret it. That's just it, though; I may never get the satisfaction I crave, it may be so much easier to loosen up and accept one of the "real" romances (I will eventually...with different Hawkes), but I made my ideal Hawke, I like everything I did with her, and I don't want to have to settle with her.

I've also wondered how his character might have been percieved were he an older man, perhaps having spent much of his life in the Chantry, his princely days but a vague memory. Would he have been accepted more for his ideals, since he had experience? Or would fans more easily dismiss him as being "preachy"?

But yes, it does seem like a rather cruel joke...not only is he attractive (by a WIDE margin, in my opinion), but it's far more feasible to have a normal, more stable life with him. Not that that's for every Hawke, but the option would be nice.  

Eliantariel wrote...

I must say I really like Sebastian and I started a friendship romance with him. I was checking wiki and youtube for difference between rival and friendship romance. It is quite difficult to get him on rivalry without doing things that my Hawke doesn't want to do. I like friendship more (despite the chaste marriage) because I fear that on rivalry he will become more the person he was before - only interested in his own pleasures and I like his calm personality (but his punch during the repentance quest was awesome ).

That's pretty much how I feel...I dread the thought of him reverting (who knows what that could lead do? Light semi-flirting is one thing, but straight-up macking on my sister, getting "friendly" with Isabela...call me bitter, but that's nightmare fuel to me). But he did say in one of the Questioning Beliefs, something like, "It's odd. When I wanted to ruel, I would have been terrible at it. Now that I might be decent, I don't know if it's the right thing to do." So that has me thinking even if he starts being a bit more...focused on his own needs, he'll never go so far as to be irreverent and immature again. Friendship or rivaly, he always knows what a shame and burden he was to his family. There's a difference between returning home and returning with purpose. Hopefully my fears will remain unfounded, though Legacy didn't exactly help.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 26 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[silentstephi]

You know what? I just want to see his finished story.

I'm pretty confident that because they did make him a romance option, they're not going to just drop the folks that picked up the bait.

If they do.... the ovary rage.... yea.

Anywho, just... finish his story. I want to see what happens to Starkhaven. I want to see what happens to the rest of the Free Marches. But Starkhaven specifically because it's the site of the other Circle in the Marches. And by the end of the game, it's still nebulous whether or not that Circle is really broken.

While Grace and Co(act 1) escaped from there, in Prime Suspects (act 2), Gascard has a letter from First Enchanter Raddick of Starkhaven's Circle asking about the missing mages. So it's possible they have one still, it's just crippled/diminished.

[john-in-france]

I'd be happy with a 15 second cutscene of the chaste wedding vows, ok, I'd like the whole Starkhaven DLC, but some closure would be nice. Really I'd love more than that, but....

I have no problem with marrying a brother of the faith (only women can be priests in the Chantry), nor chaste marriage. I would like chaste marriage to not be celibate (US vs British English, Celibacy is not equal to Chastity in British English, though is noted in Chambers dictionary as them being used as equivalents in the US - I have hopes as Bioware is Canadian...)

I feel that both friendmancers and rivalmancers deserve their endscenes, maybe a chaste kiss on the forehead for a (chaste marriage) and an amazing smooch for the rivalmance wedding. Keeping it in character...but something to show that an actual romance happened.

Judy

Modifié par john-in-france, 26 août 2011 - 08:48 .

[syllogi]

LessThanKate wrote...
That's pretty much how I feel...I dread the thought of him reverting (who knows what that could lead do? Light semi-flirting is one thing, but straight-up macking on my sister, getting "friendly" with Isabela...call me bitter, but that's nightmare fuel to me). But he did say in one of the Questioning Beliefs, something like, "It's odd. When I wanted to ruel, I would have been terrible at it. Now that I might be decent, I don't know if it's the right thing to do." So that has me thinking even if he starts being a bit more...focused on his own needs, he'll never go so far as to be irreverent and immature again. Friendship or rivaly, he always knows what a shame and burden he was to his family. There's a difference between returning home and returning with purpose. Hopefully my fears will remain unfounded, though Legacy didn't exactly help.

Yeah, I think rivaled Sebastian is still pretty "reigned in" compared to his Pre-Chantry days.  Although I'm completely jealous, I won't begrudge him some innocent flirting with Bethany (since there's no rivalmance content, and that's there for all Hawkes who didn't friendmance him.)  I will be very put out if in future DLC I hear some banters between him and Isabela about last night, however...

He has been in the Chantry for fifteen years, though, and he shows no interest in going back to the way he used to be.  

I think the bigger question will be, is Sebastian going to be an enemy if Anders was spared in the endgame.  I'm assuming they'd want any DLC to be able to be played mid game or post game, so I'm wondering how that will work.

[LessThanKate]

silentstephi wrote...

You know what? I just want to see his finished story.

I'm pretty confident that because they did make him a romance option, they're not going to just drop the folks that picked up the bait.

If they do.... the ovary rage.... yea.

Anywho, just... finish his story. I want to see what happens to Starkhaven. I want to see what happens to the rest of the Free Marches. But Starkhaven specifically because it's the site of the other Circle in the Marches. And by the end of the game, it's still nebulous whether or not that Circle is really broken.

There are many unanswered questions and loose end left in the game, Sebastian particularly suffers for it. His finaly companion quest isn't even so much about him as it is the coming storm that is the templar/mage situation. His own story was absorbed by that conflict. Everyone else (besides Anders, but he was always a part of that) has their own story that was seperate.

That needs to be rectified. Sebastian is not a bad character, and as far as DLC ones, he's still more..."full" than Zaeed and Kasumi (I loved them too, as I did Shale, whom I believe got the best deal all around) but you interact with the other characters; do their quests, get them gifts, and...it feels like they stopped short with him. They were almost there, but apparently Act III already had too much going on

TeenZombie wrote...

I think the bigger question will be, is Sebastian going to be an enemy if Anders was spared in the endgame.  I'm assuming they'd want any DLC to be able to be played mid game or post game, so I'm wondering how that will work.

That is curious...Legacy, regardless of when you actually play it, takes places before the final act...which is a little odd, since that means it takes place before you have the option of killing Anders, yet he won't just come back if you killed him.

Even though it would make the most sense, I'm having trouble imaging DLC that can only be played post-compaign. I don't see how else to do it, though; it was always clear that Sebastian would remain in Kirkwall for as long as Hawke and the Grand Cleric needed him. Unless there's some plot device that would want to make him leave sooner...a letter from a distant relative, dire news of Starkhaven, something...Usually a few altered lines of dialogue glosses over where you are in the game, but I see no way of glossing over Anders.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 26 août 2011 - 10:19 .

[sagefic]

huh, i guess i'm confused now.

i took the 'chaste' marriage mentioned in the wiki to mean a marriage without any sex. but i guess, depending on how you define 'chaste,' chaste *can* mean simply 'sex within sanctioned relationships' so that would imply they have sex (just not until they get hitched). but what i'm hearing is more that it's a celibate marriage.

so is there some debate about that? i mean, i thought templars were celibate, but then aveline was married to one. i guess i'm wondering if this order bastion is in is catholic-priest-like or anglican-priest-like.

[Illusionary Ennui]

 @SageQueen - You might want to read this in regards to templars and chastity: Templars and Chastity...

Any road, I think I've discovered why I'm not a fan of the chaste romance - it's not because it's chaste (regardless of the debatable definition at this point), it's because he asks Hawke to become a sister in Faith, like it's a condition for the marriage. At least, that's how I see it... maybe it's just my personal preference of the impact of religion on a relationship.

*ends her ramble*

Modifié par Illusionary Ennui, 29 août 2011 - 01:34 .

[syllogi]

Illusionary Ennui wrote...

 @SageQueen - You might want to read this in regards to templars and chastity: Templars and Chastity...

Any road, I think I've discovered why I'm not a fan of the chaste romance - it's not because it's chaste (regardless of the debatable definition at this point), it's because he asks Hawke to become a sister in Faith, like it's a condition for the marriage. At least, that's whole I see it... maybe it's just my personal preference of the impact of religion on a relationship.

*ends her ramble*

Yeah, for my Hawke, she really didn't like or trust the Chantry until she met a few good Templars and people like Elthina and Sebastian.  Seeing Bethany at peace with being in the Circle also changed her views.  She still wouldn't be interested in becoming a Chantry lay sister, even if there was no vow of celibacy involved.  

My biggest reason for rivaling Sebastian, though, is thinking that having a good ruler for Starkhaven is more important than whatever he would be doing as a lay brother after the end of the game.  Goran Vael is incompetent and a puppet ruler, according to the Codex, and that can be dangerous if the wrong people are pulling the strings.  Unless someone else with a good claim is out there who is capable and worthy, I felt like it was the right thing to do to tell Sebastian that ruling is important.

[Illusionary Ennui]

@TeenZombie - Absolutely... at least, that's what I keep telling myself. You can rival him without being evil, you just have to make the hard decisions with the right intentions. *wrote a guide on how to rival the prince without being a jerk by about half-way through Act II so you can make whatever decisions you want after that*

"You'll be a just and fair ruler." That line (not sure if I'm quoting right) is probably one of the best in regards to him and the prospect - given the right tools, Starkhaven would prosper in his hands... he just needs a push and to learn to stop waffling.

EDIT: Here's the link to the guide, now available to anyone: Rivalmancing the Prince

Also, here is the url if the link doesn't want to work:
http://illusionaryen...cing-the-prince

Modifié par Illusionary Ennui, 29 août 2011 - 01:36 .

[sagefic]

Illusionary Ennui wrote...

@TeenZombie - Absolutely... at least, that's what I keep telling myself. You can rival him without being evil, you just have to make the hard decisions with the right intentions. *wrote a guide on how to rival the prince without being a jerk by about half-way through Act II so you can make whatever decisions you want after that*

"You'll be a just and fair ruler." That line (not sure if I'm quoting right) is probably one of the best in regards to him and the prospect - given the right tools, Starkhaven would prosper in his hands... he just needs a push and to learn to stop waffling.

this is really helpful, and ty for the link

the above guide, though, i can't view. do you have another place you've posted that?

[Monica21]

sagequeen wrote...

Illusionary Ennui wrote...

@TeenZombie - Absolutely... at least, that's what I keep telling myself. You can rival him without being evil, you just have to make the hard decisions with the right intentions. *wrote a guide on how to rival the prince without being a jerk by about half-way through Act II so you can make whatever decisions you want after that*

"You'll be a just and fair ruler." That line (not sure if I'm quoting right) is probably one of the best in regards to him and the prospect - given the right tools, Starkhaven would prosper in his hands... he just needs a push and to learn to stop waffling.

this is really helpful, and ty for the link

the above guide, though, i can't view. do you have another place you've posted that?

I can't read it either since I'm not a member of that group. You could add it as a blog entry on this site.

[Illusionary Ennui]

 I could just throw it on my Tumblr, I suppose, if you really want it.

*pokes Tumblr for a bit* 

Here we go... I think: Rivalmancing the Prince

Please note that this contains spoilers and I have included warnings on the page thusly. It also makes many assumptions which are dictated at the opening of the guide. I've been meaning to add his last companion quest and questioning beliefs, but the main point of the guide to get him rivaled. But yes, I'll be updating it soon so that you may know how to get him to make the infamous flirt.

Also, here is the url if the link doesn't want to work:
http://illusionaryen...cing-the-prince

Modifié par Illusionary Ennui, 27 août 2011 - 03:32 .

[BlackLotus30]

The Xand wrote...

Gotta say that I love Sebastian. As a Scotsman myself it's ncie to hear a familiar accent in a game, instead of BBC English accents

Also Sebastian's armour is very reminiscent of Kain's from Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen, when he was human.

It basically looked like this but with the colours inverted.

http://images.wikia....d-IronArmor.png

Or to see what I meant originally watch 3:50 in from this Youtube link.

Actually Sebastian Armor is more alike to Lucas Blight's armor  >.>    http://imageshack.us...ablightzp6.gif/


When I friendmanced it was never about pushing Sebastian toward the Chantry. My Hawke was a goody too shoe, really it would have made your teeth hurt. Hawke was particually attracted to the Chantry nor she had any inclination to burn it to the ground. If she had the chance she would have killed Petrice consequence be damned. I like Sebastian and all but the way they handled his semi-romance makes me cry. Really Bioware! doing the right thing by Starkhaven people push him toward Rilval? Surely wanting to kick of the Throne a puppet to self serving  nobles that Sebastian refered as a "pit viper nest" should have gotten me brownie points?

My solution to Starkhaven in friendmance. Well Sebastian after taking starkhaven throne and still not have the stomach for the politic, Just give me the Throne a Vael still rule. (Yes my Hawke is so tired to have life kick her in the teeth after Kirkwall)

Modifié par BlackLotus30, 27 août 2011 - 03:47 .