2724 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Quething wrote...


Friended yeah, I don't think he'd of optimal use to the revolution. If he married Hawke and Hawke is taking an active role, he would help the way he's always helped - having Hawke's back in combat - but without that I imagine he'd head for the nearest Chantry and join up with the flock, and quietly do what's asked of him there (probably help out with refugees and other war victims on both sides, since the Chantry actually seems to be aiming for neutrality in the war). If you don't kill Anders he'd likely go to Starkhaven first and fail to have a meaningful or effective plan for revenge and stew for a bit and be aimless and frustrated and hurt, but the end result would be the same IMO, just a little slower in getting there.

Rivaled, he could be quite effective in making Starkhaven live up to its name. You're not going to win him over to any "destroy the Chantry" sort of goal, but I can see Hawke convincing him to put military might behind strong reforms.

Hmmm. Well, like Isabela, I take approximately equal levels of friend and rival actions toward Sebastian, so all that matters is which he sees. I did rival him the first time and considered killing Anders for his political aid, but... I don't know. I just don't see him as ideologically reliable during the war, and not an effective replacement for Anders' power. The only way I could justify it is if Sebastian somehow allowed Orsino and the surviving Kirkwall mages to take refuge in Starkhaven, and that doesn't happen.

[esper]

Why do people supect that Sebastian will just go to Starkhaven and be prince? He has to win that city back and without pc-aid that could take between monts and years.

[nos_astra]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...
I like to think friendly, non-romance Sebastian, would end up sitting in a Chantry in bugger knows where, tending to refugees and such..

Years would pass and Starkhaven would begin to fail under the rule of the simple-minded fool that took the throne, and Sebastian would hear rumours of it's dwindling power. I like to think he'd beat himself up over it, looking to the Maker for further guidance and becoming angry when no guidance is given. Maybe forsaking his vows to the Chantry and attempting to heal the wounds to his city. Only to fail, and become outcast, dishonoured, left to die.

Only to end up wandering from city to city, tavern to tavern, a no named ex-Prince/Priest. Angry at the world and himself. Blaming the Maker for "misguiding" him causing the downfall of his city, drowning his sorrows and self loathing in drink, gambling, bar brawls and possibly women. Learning to relish the chaos of battle over the serenity of religious contemplation.

What can i say? I've never been a huge fan of happy endings, and i like bitter former-religious type characters.

Sounds like something I would read. My favourite ending for Alistair in DAO was the wandering drunk.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Sounds like something I would read.

I was honestly expecting to be ignored, or burned alive, for it. It's nice to know people can appreciate a little bit of tragedy.

[Ellyria]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

what are the odds of a friended Sebastian really trying to retake Starkhaven?

I like to think friendly, non-romance Sebastian, would end up sitting in a Chantry in bugger knows where, tending to refugees and such..

Years would pass and Starkhaven would begin to fail under the rule of the simple-minded fool that took the throne, and Sebastian would hear rumours of it's dwindling power. I like to think he'd beat himself up over it, looking to the Maker for further guidance and becoming angry when no guidance is given. Maybe forsaking his vows to the Chantry and attempting to heal the wounds to his city. Only to fail, and become outcast, dishonoured, left to die.

Only to end up wandering from city to city, tavern to tavern, a no named ex-Prince/Priest. Angry at the world and himself. Blaming the Maker for "misguiding" him causing the downfall of his city, drowning his sorrows and self loathing in drink, gambling, bar brawls and possibly women. Learning to relish the chaos of battle over the serenity of religious contemplation.

What can i say? I've never been a huge fan of happy endings, and i like bitter former-religious type characters.

Knowing Bioware, they would do something like this. At the end of the Starkhaven DLC, it would look like Sebastian is reclaiming the throne... then in DA3, the newest PC finds him lying facedown in a ditch covered in mud and drunk as a skunk because he decided either not to be Price afterall, or got booted out.

Bioware doesn't know what "happy ending" means.  (And just when you think they do, a sequel gets released that proves otherwise. *sigh* Like KotOR...)

[Sylvanpyxie]

And just when you think they do, a sequel gets released that proves otherwise. *sigh* Like KotOR...

The Sith Lords was created by Obsidian, not Bioware. It might have been stamped by Bioware, i'm not sure, but the game was 100% Obsidian. It was also half finished because Lucas Arts gave Obsidian a moronic deadline :/

But, i honestly think Sebastian losing his faith, in the Maker and himself, would add some depth to his character... I love characters who are caring and charming and delightful but.... I dunno, there's just something missing in Sebastian that a little bit of "kick him while he's down" would fix.

I like his character, and i'd hate to see him suffer.. But i honestly think he could be made better if he had a little bit of loss and hurt mixed into his life. Making him perhaps more charming and roguish, but distrustful and snappy. Earning his trust and helping him piece together his poor shattered soul.

Suffering does characters a world of good in my opinion. Definitely want to see him in a future game regardless to be honest. He has so much potential as a character.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 29 octobre 2011 - 12:02 .

[Ellyria]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

And just when you think they do, a sequel gets released that proves otherwise. *sigh* Like KotOR...

The Sith Lords was created by Obsidian, not Bioware. It might have been stamped by Bioware, i'm not sure, but the game was 100% Obsidian. It was also half finished because Lucas Arts gave Obsidian a moronic deadline :/

I know, I spend a lot of time correcting people on that as well. The only thing Bioware in KOTOR2 is the engine from KOTOR1 they gave to Obsidian to use. 


I just think it's funny that Bioware actually wrote a happy ending for a game... then it got squashed in the sequel by Obsidian. (Although I'm sure if Bioware had done KOTOR2 they would have done the same thing... look at DAO, all it's happy endings have seemingly been undone by DA2.)

[Sylvanpyxie]

I think Bioware are better at happy endings than Obsidian are...

I mean Obsidian have some right proper disturbing/depressing endings in Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer. I love it, mostly because of the variety.

But uhm, yeah.. I'm not saying i don't support happy endings for Sebastian, i just don't think he should be written off as a happy ending just yet. Think he needs to get a little more fight in him to gear up for another game. Then he can have all the happy he likes :>

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 29 octobre 2011 - 12:46 .

[Quething]

I would absolutely hate to see Sebastian lose his faith. It's the most important and interesting thing about him. Tragedy and suffering can have its place (though I'm not sure how much more suffering you'd think he needs beyond having his whole family killed and then his surrogate mother who he'd sworn to protect butchered in front of him by a man he could have stopped, had he only been more decisive and acted on his instincts sooner), but I find them far more interesting when characters react to them by ultimately strengthening themselves and becoming more fully themselves and living more fully to their potential, rather than breaking and becoming lesser and alien.

[Abispa]

I would like to see a Sebastian novel, comic, DLC, expansion, etc. telling the story of him trying to aid and protect converts to the Chantry in Qunari or Dwarven territory. I appreciate the fact that he isn't depicted as a super xenophobe and I think it would be enlightening to see his reaction to the plight of those who seek to be a part of his faith while coming from communities that are hostile to it.

[Xilizhra]

Quething wrote...

I would absolutely hate to see Sebastian lose his faith. It's the most important and interesting thing about him. Tragedy and suffering can have its place (though I'm not sure how much more suffering you'd think he needs beyond having his whole family killed and then his surrogate mother who he'd sworn to protect butchered in front of him by a man he could have stopped, had he only been more decisive and acted on his instincts sooner), but I find them far more interesting when characters react to them by ultimately strengthening themselves and becoming more fully themselves and living more fully to their potential, rather than breaking and becoming lesser and alien.

I actually might find it interesting, but only in the context of reconstructing him into my agent, and an agent of the mage revolution. I don't believe a lack of faith in some immaterial thing makes one lesser in any way.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I would absolutely hate to see Sebastian lose his faith.

If i can clarify one thing quickly before i "wall of text" everyone: This is *my* view on how i would like Sebastian to evolve, whether he remains in the Chantry or not.

With that in mind: Sebastian has suffered, losing his family, the Grand Cleric. And while he might have questioned his place and his path through-out Dragon Age 2, he has never questioned his faith. He's lost everyone he has cared about in his life, and yet his faith is untouched, unmarred, forever strong and unyielding to the pain and cruelty he, and the world, have suffered. He never questions the Maker, never questions his existence or even his plans for us all.

Sebastian's sense of justice(vengeance) and honour, i personally believe, is stronger than his faith, i consider those to be the very core of his character, his faith always comes second to his thirst for justice. Yet all the things he has suffered, he has never questioned his faith, his faith has never waned or suffered in the least. I'm not saying i want Sebastian broken to the point he no longer believes. I'm saying i want him to question the Maker's plans for the world and the people in it. I want to see him hate the Maker for the pain the world suffers.

I don't want him to lose his faith, but i want his view on faith, and the Maker, to change and not permanently. I'd like to see his faith wounded, not completely destroyed with high impact explosives. Wounds can be healed, whether they're physical or emotional. Dealt to flesh or faith, wounds *always* heal.

And just to clarify, again, to avoid any hate: This is *my* view on how *I* would like to see Sebastian evolve. I'm not attempting to stomp on the core of his character or insult his fan base. Merely voicing my personal opinion on things. I think it's good to always get new and interesting ideas out into the forums.

Editted to clarify some stuff and tweak a bit.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 12 avril 2012 - 05:39 .

[Gervaise]

There is a difference between losing faith in the Chantry and losing faith in the Maker. It might well be that Sebastian could come round to the point of view that in fact it was the Chantry that failed Elthina, through their continued endorsement of the status quo instead of truly following the Chant of Light. He says to Isabella that he tries to convert by the example of his life rather than simply preaching. I liked him because he is the nearest thing we have got thus far to someone who not only believes in the Chant of Light but actually tries (with occasional lapses) to actually live it.

So ideally I would like Sebastian to almost become a "prophet" in his own right - which would fit it perfectly well with the mage freedom thing because both my mage lady (his spiritual wife) and Bethany believe in the Maker but by the end of the game do not believe the Chantry's interpretation of it concerning mages and the policy of locking them up. (Neither does he if his comments to Bethany are anything to go by). This has led them to question a number of things that the Chantry teaches, that on questioning Sebastian, do not appear in the Chant.

Unfortunately trying to do a reformation from the base of Starkhaven might prove somewhat difficult owing to its relatively close proximity to Orlais and the fact that according to Sebastian, it is crawling with Orlesians. Since the Chantry is the state religion of Orlais, they started the whole thing and it has conveniently always supported the "Divine Right" of the nobles' status in addition to that of the Templars, they are likely to be the last ones to reject it.

If Bioware do to Sebastian what they did to Anders, I will not be a happy bunny.

[Chignon]

Xilizhra wrote...

I actually might find it interesting, but only in the context of reconstructing him into my agent, and an agent of the mage revolution. I don't believe a lack of faith in some immaterial thing makes one lesser in any way.

Most of us don't feel the need to warp someone else's characters to fit our own agendas.

[Xilizhra]

Chignon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I actually might find it interesting, but only in the context of reconstructing him into my agent, and an agent of the mage revolution. I don't believe a lack of faith in some immaterial thing makes one lesser in any way.

Most of us don't feel the need to warp someone else's characters to fit our own agendas.

Have any of you ever rivaled anyone?

Ah well. I admit to a certain Anders-esque aspect to me at times.

[Chignon]

I fail to see the relevance of your question. The rivalry path isn't about taking away all of Sebastian's characteristics that stop him from being who you want him to be.

Modifié par Chignon, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:54 .

[Xilizhra]

Chignon wrote...

I fail to see the relevance of your question. The rivalry path isn't about taking away all of Sebastian's characteristics that stop him from being who you want him to be.

No, but Sebastian is sort of unique. Isabela's rivalry path takes away her selfishness, Anders' takes away his zeal, Merrill's takes away her desire to use the eluvian, etc.

[Chignon]

And Sebastian doesn't want to stay in the Chantry any longer, deciding to retake Starkhaven instead.

[Xilizhra]

Chignon wrote...

And Sebastian doesn't want to stay in the Chantry any longer, deciding to retake Starkhaven instead.

That's not really a change. Without relationship investment, he's just uncertain and lacks any direction. Both friendship and rivalry give him a relatively mild push, instead of the shove other rivalries give.

[Chignon]

How is that not really a change? He's been part of the Chantry for a good chunk of his life.

[Xilizhra]

In large part because he really wanted to take back his lands in Act 1. So really, you're just having his beliefs go back a few years.

[Chignon]

I still have to disagree. He may have wanted to but he ultimately didn't. It only happens once Hawke encourages him to do it.

[Xilizhra]

Well, regardless, I doubt what I said will happen anyway.

I wonder what he thinks of a blood mage Hawke, or would if anyone acknowledged it?

[Mr.House]

If Hawke was not there, he would have stayed with the Chantry.

[esper]

Mr.House wrote...

If Hawke was not there, he would have stayed with the Chantry.

I actually think it is opposite. If Hawke is not there Sebastian are forced to return Starkhaven no matter what because the explosion. I even think he might be forced to do that even if Hawke is there.