82 réponses à ce sujet

[chaosapiant]

Maybe i'm in the minority, and I can see where people are coming from, but the ending to DA2 was absolutely fantastic.  I REALLY hope that Bioware expands on this chantry/templar war in the coming DLCs/expansions/games, because the story is starting to deliver on the promises the first game made. 

When I heard people whining about an incomplete ending, I was thinking that EA had rushed Bioware into making another KOTOR2, but thankfully I was wrong.  After the credits roll, I realized that this may actually be Bioware's finest storytelling hour.

[TheJediSaint]

I enjoy the ending, felt a little punchdrunk because of it, but I still enjoyed it. I think that a lot of formumites put too much effort into convicing themselves that the game would suck that they spoiled any enjoyment the could have otherwise garnered from this fine game.

[Savber100]

A cliffhanger ain't an ending. Just finished the game last night and all I can think was... of all the choices I made as Champion was there anything that I did that changed ANYTHING? Sure the game is already set as the world at the brink of war but that's the problem. The choices I made didn't even cause a dent on the story. Nothing I did prevented the war, nothing I did prevented Anders from blowing up the Chantry, nothing I did prevented Orisino and Meredith from turning on me. The end just confirmed my fear that DA2 is more like an interactive movie rather than game I roleplay.
Also Bioware didn't make KOTOR2... It was Obsidian. ;P

Modifié par Savber100, 19 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[Rune-Chan]

I liked the ending.

What I disliked was the deliberate vagueness they included in the epilogue in order to add on a DLC to continue it.

Expect another "Awakenings" at some point.

Savber100 wrote...

A cliffhanger ain't an ending. Just finished the game last night and all I can think was... of all the
choices I made as Champion was there anything that I did that changed ANYTHING? Sure the game is already set as the world at the brink of war but that's the problem. The choices I made didn't even cause a dent on
the story. Nothing I did prevented the war, nothing I did prevented Anders from blowing up the Chantry, nothing I did prevented Orisino and Meredith from turning on me. The end just confirmed my fear that DA2 is
more like an interactive movie rather than game I roleplay.

I agree, but the game was set as a story, the war was always going to happen, what we were doing was explaining how it happened. I do agree with the Meredith/Orsino/Anders point though.

A cliffhanger is still an ending, if you look at a lot of works of fiction, they leave things deliberately vague for sequels, the difference is that they usually still have some form of closure; in this case you don't get any really, no explanation of why everyone separated, or why the Champion left, or anything really.

The DLC better be worth it, any hour and a half long 560MS/Bioware/PS3 equivilant is not going to cut it, and Bioware really need some good feedback in regards to Dragon Age 2 right now.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 19 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[Shacary]

kudos Savber100, totally phrased my feelings . I didnt even know the ending was comign that quick. I went aroudn a corner and boom power ranger mega fights, and bam, nothing but scrolled epilogue. I was like Huh, let down and disappointed, as you aptly noted, none of my choices made a difference, It was like playng a movie and occasionally ad-libbing a line that didnt matter in the end.
A big step back from DAO or even DAA. OK game, from an action stand point but not in line with what i thought of rpgs. O well.

[Fredvdp]

I like the ending. Even though the choices don't affect the outcome of the story I think it's much more interesting how something happened, not what exactly happened. There are many variations in the story and even if the ending is somewhat the same, I like the journey more than the destination. It's like Star Wars where we knew that Anakin would become Darth Vader in Episode III. People watched that movie because they wanted to know how it happened.

I think they handled storytelling much better than in Origins anyway. There were some variations in how it ended, sure, but the choices during the journey affected characters and cultures that I didn't feel anything for. I don't care who rules Orzammar. I do care about Bethany's fate because that's a subplot that's close to the player character. Even if that's only the ending of Act 1 this affected me much more than any of the endings of Origins because your player character in the first game had no personality.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 19 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[chaosapiant]

Shacary wrote...

kudos Savber100, totally phrased my feelings . I didnt even know the ending was comign that quick. I went aroudn a corner and boom power ranger mega fights, and bam, nothing but scrolled epilogue. I was like Huh, let down and disappointed, as you aptly noted, none of my choices made a difference, It was like playng a movie and occasionally ad-libbing a line that didnt matter in the end.
A big step back from DAO or even DAA. OK game, from an action stand point but not in line with what i thought of rpgs. O well.

I'm not sure how anyone can not know that the end of the game is around the corner.  Everyone for the last 2 hours of the game practically beats you over the head with it, makes big speeches, and gets with the killing.  I didn't know Orsino would transform into the harvester, but I knew i'd likely fight him.  I didn't know Meridith had a lyrium infused light saber, but I knew when the fight was coming, long before it did.  It was extremely telegraphed.

[chaosapiant]

Savber100 wrote...

A cliffhanger ain't an ending. Just finished the game last night and all I can think was... of all the choices I made as Champion was there anything that I did that changed ANYTHING? Sure the game is already set as the world at the brink of war but that's the problem. The choices I made didn't even cause a dent on the story. Nothing I did prevented the war, nothing I did prevented Anders from blowing up the Chantry, nothing I did prevented Orisino and Meredith from turning on me. The end just confirmed my fear that DA2 is more like an interactive movie rather than game I roleplay.
Also Bioware didn't make KOTOR2... It was Obsidian. ;P

Also, just so we're clear, I'm well aware that Obsidian made KOTOR2; they have a habit of making games with poorly finished endings.  It doens't make my point less valid though.  (That being said, Obsidian also makes hands down some of the best RPG experiences to date, not even including their work when the members were at Black Isle.)

[SmokeyTheBear]

You have to remember: Varric is an experienced story-teller, and he embellishes often. A lot of over-the-top events will most likely be exaggerations from Varric, despite Cassandra's deliberate phrasing of "I want the truth."

[Siven80]

I too thought the ending was fantastic.

It was a more mature ending in that neither side was right or wrong, no cliche "big bad" enemy - which is maybe why some people dislike the end. But i enjoyed it.

The story of the Champion and his exploits, which was what the game was about had an ending, yet it raised more questions about the upcoming conflict, world, organisations and characters....but thats also a reason i enjoyed the ending......becuase it kept me focused on the world as a whole and what may happen.

Tumbs up from me.

[Huami]

Fredvdp wrote...

I like the ending. Even though the
choices don't affect the outcome of the story I think it's much more
interesting how something happened, not what exactly happened. There are
many variations in the story and even if the ending is somewhat the
same, I like the journey more than the destination. It's like Star Wars
where we knew that Anakin would become Darth Vader in Episode III.
People watched that movie because they wanted to know how it happened.

I
think they handled storytelling much better than in Origins anyway.
There were some variations in how it ended, sure, but the choices during
the journey affected characters and cultures that I didn't feel
anything for. I don't care who rules Orzammar. I do care about Bethany's
fate because that's a subplot that's close to the player character.
Even if that's only the ending of Act 1 this affected me much more than
any of the endings of Origins because your player character in the first
game had no personality.

+100 to Fredvdp!! I love stories, and I really got sucked into the world
of DA:2. The whole point of a good rpg, is that you feel the story,
develop feelings for the people in it, and witness how your own
character unfolds along with his/her inner circle. For all the haters
out there saying the story sucked - get over your own fancy pants and
quit whining. It's not about you. It's about the Story. And Bioware made
Sure they had their way (which I enjoyed A LOT), Why? Because it's
their F*ckin story, not yours. The beginning cutscene should have
already prepared you for a tale that was already Predetermined.
Something in the past. Therefore your character's decision's leaves
little room for the inevitability of the main plot. The main point of
choices in this game is for players to feel the flavor of Getting
towards the ending much like in Mass Effect 2 (can you really avoid the
coming invasion? lol). And because you experience your personal Hawke as
you progress to becomming the Viscount, that enough should already
leave you the satisfaction, unless you don't have a single clue what rpg
games really are. If you expect to be able to change entire major plots
of a story Bioware has the authority to weave, then don't play, again.
Ever, any of biowares games. Bioware I love you!

Modifié par Huami, 19 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[Shacary]

Huami, you could jus t sya u disagree without bashing. I didnt hate the game, nor did i like it much. It was as much rpg as FF to me, which is to say it didnt make the cut imo. It had a few fun spots sure, and I will admit i might have been trying to attend to finallygettign that last rune made and missed the banter of the " mates" about the final battle, but i was not story line or lack of imo, near the point where i thought it was ready to blow .
I didnt connect with the storyline much, its like wow , fun but not an rpg, Im glad you enjoyed it, I know many will, I however was left with a bad taste in my mouth, I had hoped for a deeper plot. *shrug* each to his own respectfully . differences are what makes the world such a wonderful place to explore.

[Huami]

from the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks I feel for bioware

[Huami]

my response was also the culmination of reading hundreds of posts saying DA:2 sux, and I heavily disagree

[ExiledMimic]

The ending it's self was not out of place, except it was missing something to me. An Epilogue of some form. Nothing detailed, but ideas. Things settled in some way. Even if it was just the companions. I also would have felt more for the ending if I felt like I got there with some choosing. I mean you kill the Archdemon either way in Origins, but you have a different personal experience if you have Loghain in the party and he dies, or if you and Alistair drop the demon after the ritual.

It's not that final act that matters, it's the things you can affect around them, and sadly in this game that's not a lot. Some of your party might hang out by your side, some of your friends may like you, some hate you, and you may have fallen in love. But nothing unfolds any differently. You always fight the same two "huh?" bosses that resemble DBZ supporting cast, and you always get that drab ending that only has life because of Cassandra. Even Varric falls a little flat in the end.

Here's hoping that while some steps in the game need to stay as a huge step forward, some of these mistakes should never find their way into another game by Bioware. I was furious when I finished, now I've traded in the game and I'm just taking it as a learning curve that they need to work past.

[Ashaman65]

chaosapiant wrote...

Maybe i'm in the minority, and I can see where people are coming from, but the ending to DA2 was absolutely fantastic.  I REALLY hope that Bioware expands on this chantry/templar war in the coming DLCs/expansions/games, because the story is starting to deliver on the promises the first game made. 

I loved that outcome, the war that is.
I didn't like the end part of the game that much due to the way parts where implemented but the epilogue was good.

[Savber100]

Huami wrote...

+100 to Fredvdp!! I love stories, and I really got sucked into the world
of DA:2. The whole point of a good rpg, is that you feel the story,
develop feelings for the people in it, and witness how your own
character unfolds along with his/her inner circle. For all the haters
out there saying the story sucked - get over your own fancy pants and
quit whining. It's not about you. It's about the Story. And Bioware made
Sure they had their way (which I enjoyed A LOT), Why? Because it's
their F*ckin story, not yours. The beginning cutscene should have
already prepared you for a tale that was already Predetermined.
Something in the past. Therefore your character's decision's leaves
little room for the inevitability of the main plot. The main point of
choices in this game is for players to feel the flavor of Getting
towards the ending much like in Mass Effect 2 (can you really avoid the
coming invasion? lol). And because you experience your personal Hawke as
you progress to becomming the Viscount, that enough should already
leave you the satisfaction, unless you don't have a single clue what rpg
games really are. If you expect to be able to change entire major plots
of a story Bioware has the authority to weave, then don't play, again.
Ever, any of biowares games. Bioware I love you!

...the whole bloody point of a ROLE-PLAYING GAME is the idea of you playing a ROLE. ;P
What role did you play besides silently watching the world collapse around you and was given only ONE decision that decided whether you supported the templar or mage at the very END of the game? NOTHING was changed in the event of choosing sides. The Circles still rebelled and you still end up missing. "It's part of Bioware's plot" you will whine. What are you saying? This is a RPG not some FPS where we just GO WITH THE FLOW. RPGs are suppose to at least stand out in terms of MAKING YOUR CHOICES MATTER. It's not MY charcter if I can't decide how I want Hawke to evolve and change his world. My mother still die, no matter what side quest I do. My sister still leaves me no matter what I choose. Also, you said "YOUR Hawke" so did your Hawke start the Circle rebellion. Did he or she end up wearing that Champion armor at the end? Did Meredith survive in your story? You see... my Hawke's destiny is EXACTLY the same as yours with some little difference here and there. No uniqueness whatsoever. In the game, the most noteworthy change is the style of clothes you wear. Role-playing is pretty much not really there.

I'm not calling for a game that has limitless choices. I just want a game that makes my choices MATTER. I just feel none of my choices do anything except tickle the main plot.

The feeling of 'getting to the end'? What end? The game just ended as the mage vs. templars war BEGAN. Hints of it in Act 1 and Act 2 and just as it began to develop the plot, it ends. Your ME example shows what you know. Yes, the reaper invasion is coming but at the very least, my decision on whether I spare the Council and save the Collector's base will AFFECT what happens in the end (Well, I hope so). In DA2, does ANY of your past decisions in DA:O (Alistiar is king, Warden alive) or even your decisions affect the ending besides for two lines of different dialogue? Yes, yes.. I know the dev said that  the game is different from ME but do we really see any change in the world based on our decisions from the last game as the dev said will do instead? (Ooorah, we got a cameo from Leliana, Zev, and Alistair! That is totally world-changing!)

Modifié par Savber100, 19 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[NinjaRogue]

Cliffhangers mean we still need to be rescued or do what Flemeth does, become a dragon

[Dante Angelo]

Anybody notice that the building Cassandra walks out of looks like the Amell estate??

[Foolsfolly]

SmokeyTheBear wrote...

You have to remember: Varric is an experienced story-teller, and he embellishes often. A lot of over-the-top events will most likely be exaggerations from Varric, despite Cassandra's deliberate phrasing of "I want the truth."

Yeah, but that's cheap. I know Varric is the epitome of the Unreliable Narrator but you have to assume that most of what you're doing is the truth. Otherwise, the game's story is even more pointless because "what really happened" and what you're doing doesn't match up.

[Legbiter]

People want a simple, clearly defined bad guy to vanquish at the end. Since DA II dosen't give them that they get upset.

[CRISIS1717]

This is the worst fantasy storyline I have come across so far from any developer, hopefully Dragon Age 2 will be retconned.

[AtreiyaN7]

I very much enjoyed it. It was different from the norm. If I want to kill a giant dragon or an evil sorcerer to save the world, I can do that in just about every other game I have in my large game collection. DA2 was about your character's role in changing the world in a profound manner, with long-term implications for politics, society and religion in Thedas. I liked that it ended with war breaking out.

[Foolsfolly]

Legbiter wrote...

People want a simple, clearly defined bad guy to vanquish at the end. Since DA II dosen't give them that they get upset.

Oh save your insults.

This game did have a simple villain. Meredith has no personality, goes crazy because of an idol, and you slap her down. Even if you side with her she just starts swinging the idol-sword around and talking crazy talk.

That's as simple of a villain as you can get. Loghain was the complicated villain that looked simple on the outside.

[Augustei]

chaosapiant wrote...

Maybe i'm in the minority, and I can see where people are coming from, but the ending to DA2 was absolutely fantastic.  I REALLY hope that Bioware expands on this chantry/templar war in the coming DLCs/expansions/games, because the story is starting to deliver on the promises the first game made. 

When I heard people whining about an incomplete ending, I was thinking that EA had rushed Bioware into making another KOTOR2, but thankfully I was wrong.  After the credits roll, I realized that this may actually be Bioware's finest storytelling hour.

The game didn't have an ending, it had a beginning for the next game