82 réponses à ce sujet

[Sa Seba]

I think what Bioware did here was going away from the typical RPG that focuses on one character. Instead, the present us with a world, in which we as players experience characters that greatly impact its history, make its history to be more precise.  Just like some of the fantasy worlds in litherature, such as the "Malazan" one by S. Erikson and I.C. Esslemont.

The Dragon Age universe has lots of potential and if Bioware plays its card right, they can go on with that forever.

Modifié par Sa Seba, 19 mars 2011 - 09:34 .

[Noatz]

Savber100 wrote...

...the whole bloody point of a ROLE-PLAYING GAME is the idea of you playing a ROLE. ;P
What role did you play besides silently watching the world collapse around you and was given only ONE decision that decided whether you supported the templar or mage at the very END of the game? NOTHING was changed in the event of choosing sides. The Circles still rebelled and you still end up missing. "It's part of Bioware's plot" you will whine. What are you saying? This is a RPG not some FPS where we just GO WITH THE FLOW. RPGs are suppose to at least stand out in terms of MAKING YOUR CHOICES MATTER. It's not MY charcter if I can't decide how I want Hawke to evolve and change his world. My mother still die, no matter what side quest I do. My sister still leaves me no matter what I choose. Also, you said "YOUR Hawke" so did your Hawke start the Circle rebellion. Did he or she end up wearing that Champion armor at the end? Did Meredith survive in your story? You see... my Hawke's destiny is EXACTLY the same as yours with some little difference here and there. No uniqueness whatsoever. In the game, the most noteworthy change is the style of clothes you wear. Role-playing is pretty much not really there.

I'm not calling for a game that has limitless choices. I just want a game that makes my choices MATTER. I just feel none of my choices do anything except tickle the main plot.

The feeling of 'getting to the end'? What end? The game just ended as the mage vs. templars war BEGAN. Hints of it in Act 1 and Act 2 and just as it began to develop the plot, it ends. Your ME example shows what you know. Yes, the reaper invasion is coming but at the very least, my decision on whether I spare the Council and save the Collector's base will AFFECT what happens in the end (Well, I hope so). In DA2, does ANY of your past decisions in DA:O (Alistiar is king, Warden alive) or even your decisions affect the ending besides for two lines of different dialogue? Yes, yes.. I know the dev said that  the game is different from ME but do we really see any change in the world based on our decisions from the last game as the dev said will do instead? (Ooorah, we got a cameo from Leliana, Zev, and Alistair! That is totally world-changing!)

You play the ROLE of Hawke, and by the end of the game you have decided if hes nice, jovial, angry, pro-mage, pro-chantry/templar, if he still has any family, if said family are Grey Wardens, templars or part of the now rioting Circles and many other things besides. Your angry response indicates you probably haven't even noticed how your Hawke developed, since you apparantly think your Hawke will be EXACTLY the same as someone elses - which is simply not true.

And ME... ME is what it is, a trilogy from inception. Which means they can feasibly account for divergent endings. DA will presumably include more games and so writing every single game accounting for every single ending just isn't feasible. I've explained this in other threads and so won't go into further detail here. Suffice to say: consider how difficult it is from a writing standpoint to make sequels to games like Origins where the plot carries on directly.

This is the worst fantasy storyline I have come across so far from any developer, hopefully Dragon Age 2 will be retconned.

To use a quote from American Dad...

Weeooo weeooo here come the hyperbole police come to lock you away in exaggeration-traz..

[Foolsfolly]

I'm Foolsfolly and I feel I must support anyone who quotes American Dad.

[Rhytech]

A great ending. While the story itself is linear, your choices allow you to go through the story and vary your personality. So you get to choose the way your character reacts to situations and change the fate of secondary plots. DAO was the same to a certain extent but both are great stories, and making it feel like an interactive movie is somewhat a good thing. You should feel attached to the characters.

I think what Bioware needs to do with DA III is to make it like Chrono Trigger of old, and have multiple endings dependent on the decisions you make. It wouldn't have been hard to at least make 2 different endings whether you chose mages or templars.

Still...fanastic game.

[Savber100]

Noatz wrote...

You play the ROLE of Hawke, and by the end of the game you have decided if hes nice, jovial, angry, pro-mage, pro-chantry/templar, if he still has any family, if said family are Grey Wardens, templars or part of the now rioting Circles and many other things besides. Your angry response indicates you probably haven't even noticed how your Hawke developed, since you apparantly think your Hawke will be EXACTLY the same as someone elses - which is simply not true.

Haha, you call that post 'angry'? Huh.. wow. Did the caps for emphasis alarm you?

As I said, those choices you named doesn't MATTER. So what if I choose jovial or sarcastic or even angry? It rarely changes anything besides for the occasional quest that asks you whether you should free slaves etc and that choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game beyond the quest. So what if Carver and Bethany either join the Wardens or the Tempars/Mages? They still come back to HELP no matter what happens.  I already explained my gripe against the promage vs. pro templar choice in my previous post so I won't extrpolate much but basically nothing really changes with either choice. The Circle still rebels, Orsino and Meredith goes bugger nuts on you either way. The world is still at the brink of war. What have we learned? That Hawke sarcastically reacted to the crisis? No wait.. Hawke was a diplomatic about the crisis! Nope... the Chantry still gets screwed. and all WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events.. THAT IS IT.

[AtreiyaN7]

Savber100 wrote...


As I said, those choices you named doesn't MATTER. So what if I choose jovial or sarcastic or even angry? It rarely changes anything besides for the occasional quest that asks you whether you should free slaves etc and that choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game beyond the quest. So what if Carver and Bethany either join the Wardens or the Tempars/Mages? They still come back to HELP no matter what happens.  I already explained my gripe against the promage vs. pro templar choice in my previous post so I won't extrpolate much but basically nothing really changes with either choice. The Circle still rebels, Orsino and Meredith goes bugger nuts on you either way. The world is still at the brink of war. What have we learned? That Hawke sarcastically reacted to the crisis? No wait.. Hawke was a diplomatic about the crisis! Nope... the Chantry still gets screwed. and all WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events.. THAT IS IT.

Does that mean you think we somehow had a choice to do anything besides kill the archdemon in DA:O? What you say about DA2 can apply just as easily to a number of events in DA:O. You always have to save Arl Eamon. Duncan and Cailan always die. Flemeth always saves your Warden and Alistair. We had many variables over which we had control, just like we do in DA2 - variables that shape our experiences. DA:O's outcome was never in doubt - it's just a matter of how you got there and who lived or died on that rooftop. And you certainly do have life-or-death decisions along the way in DA2 as well.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 19 mars 2011 - 10:35 .

[turtlemh31]

I really enjoyed the ending. Esp with the statues coming to life. Kinda reminded me of Jason and the Argonauts.

[Sandmanifest]

I wasn't thrilled by it. All in all it seemed pretty splintered to me. Just wasn't satisfied but that's purely my opinion.

[Deadlysyns]

i enjoyed meredith as the last boss better then the Archdemon this boss had depth

[Everwarden]

 Amazingly bad, perhaps. 

[Sandmanifest]

Deadlysyns wrote...

i enjoyed meredith as the last boss better then the Archdemon this boss had depth

I see what you mean, but I enjoyed fighting the High Dragon more than Meredith for some reason. 'Course I'm biased toward dragons.

[allankles]

Savber100 wrote...

A cliffhanger ain't an ending. Just finished the game last night and all I can think was... of all the choices I made as Champion was there anything that I did that changed ANYTHING? Sure the game is already set as the world at the brink of war but that's the problem. The choices I made didn't even cause a dent on the story. Nothing I did prevented the war, nothing I did prevented Anders from blowing up the Chantry, nothing I did prevented Orisino and Meredith from turning on me. The end just confirmed my fear that DA2 is more like an interactive movie rather than game I roleplay.
Also Bioware didn't make KOTOR2... It was Obsidian. ;P

You did role play, the world simply didn't sit still for you. Anders is fanatic with a justice spirit that's melded with his mind and body. Meredith was corrupted. Orisono's actions were inexplicable but we didn't know him for long enough to make him not fall to blood magic.

You stopped the Qunari from likely wiping out Kirkwalls' nobles and more. You obviously affected the outcome of events, if not their eventual direction, the Circle is broken thanks to your actions.

I would have liked more options as well but given what happened with Meredith, I think the situation would only have been resolved through force. But the Guard wouldn't have provided Hawke with the army he needed, (law abiding strong minded Captain), and the Templars were too loyal to Meredith thanks to lieutenants like Cullen.

[Deadlysyns]

Sandmanifest wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

i enjoyed meredith as the last boss better then the Archdemon this boss had depth

I see what you mean, but I enjoyed fighting the High Dragon more than Meredith for some reason. 'Course I'm biased toward dragons.

whats the point of a Blight the Darkspawn rule the world then what they sit around having Tea and Crumpets or something its like Zombies they are mindless when theres nothing left for zombies to eat what happens it just makes no Sense perhaps if it was just more then wanting to kill or turn humans and other Races 

Modifié par Deadlysyns, 19 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[Thrennion]

I loved everything about DA2's plot and ending. I liked knowing my character was a cog in a great big machine, rolling inexorably toward some unknown destiny. It was realistic and good storytelling.

[Clonedzero]

people are way too hung up on the fact the ending turns out one way.
theres TONS of choices throughout the game that effects things all throughout the game and will effect things in the sequel, just cus the ending turns out one way doesnt make it bad.

i mean DA:O the ending is always you kill the archdemon.

[Samzo77]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

This is the worst fantasy storyline I have come across so far from any developer, hopefully Dragon Age 2 will be retconned.

I'm a little surprised by that, I would think there are plenty of bad fantasy stories worse than this.  There is originality in Thedas that many other games/stories/books don't have.

I didn't think this was a slam dunk, fantastic, never better ending, or story for that matter, but it was good, and solid.  Because of that, the game did suffer in your options as a character.  Why must we choose between the templar and the mages?  Why not rally behind Aveline and the city guard for the good of the people?  Defend the city you are champion of.  And it is difficult to support the templars, unless you are anti-mage.  Supporting them means you kill Bethany (if she is still alive).  The game seems to be written with the slant that your character is a mage, which I could have done without.

Overall, I thought this was some good writing that directed a good story, and was a step in the right direction for the series as a whole.

[Thrennion]

Exactly Clonedzero.

Modifié par Thrennion, 19 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[allankles]

I think there's a line that has to be stridled when making games like this. How much freedom do the devs allow you? I think assassinating Meredith should have been an option, but doing that too early would actually hurt matters given the factors of the Chantry and the tensions between the mages.

If only Hawke had the full backing of the Guard, maybe his position as Viscount would be properly secured, without pandering to people like Meredith.

It would have been good if Sebastien would have used those connections of his to help with the situation, but again that might have incited a violent response from elsewhere, namely the Divine and likely other Free March powers.

[Samzo77]

Sa Seba wrote...

I think what Bioware did here was going away from the typical RPG that focuses on one character. Instead, the present us with a world, in which we as players experience characters that greatly impact its history, make its history to be more precise.  Just like some of the fantasy worlds in litherature, such as the "Malazan" one by S. Erikson and I.C. Esslemont.

The Dragon Age universe has lots of potential and if Bioware plays its card right, they can go on with that forever.

Well put, I would agree with those statements.

[Sandmanifest]

Deadlysyns wrote...
 whats the point of a Blight the Darkspawn rule the world then what they sit around having Tea and Crumpets or something its like Zombies they are mindless when theres nothing left for zombies to eat what happens it just makes no Sense perhaps if it was just more then wanting to kill or turn humans and other Races 

Well, I'm certainly at a loss for words on that one. And a little confused.

[Cosia1]

I thought the ending was great. Really enjoyed the story and the ending only left me wondering what happens, with excitement.

I love cliffhangers, makes me want the next one even more to find out what is going on/what will happen.

[Noatz]

Savber100 wrote...
Haha, you call that post 'angry'? Huh.. wow. Did the caps for emphasis alarm you?

As I said, those choices you named doesn't MATTER. So what if I choose jovial or sarcastic or even angry? It rarely changes anything besides for the occasional quest that asks you whether you should free slaves etc and that choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game beyond the quest. So what if Carver and Bethany either join the Wardens or the Tempars/Mages? They still come back to HELP no matter what happens.  I already explained my gripe against the promage vs. pro templar choice in my previous post so I won't extrpolate much but basically nothing really changes with either choice. The Circle still rebels, Orsino and Meredith goes bugger nuts on you either way. The world is still at the brink of war. What have we learned? That Hawke sarcastically reacted to the crisis? No wait.. Hawke was a diplomatic about the crisis! Nope... the Chantry still gets screwed. and all WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events.. THAT IS IT.

How else am I supposed to interpret caps? They are the textual equivalent of shouting. However if you insist they are for emphasis I am willing to treat them as such...

The choices don't MATTER! How can you say this when you haven't seen the reprecussions?

The choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game! How about the next game(s) then? Most of the choices you make in Origins don't affect anything in that game either. Besides the statement is untrue anyway, if you kill Anders he won't be helping you against Meredith now will he. If Isabela disappears then neither will she. Gaining friendship or rivalry is ultimately a choice as well.

They still come back to HELP no matter what! Even if they die in the deep roads? Interesting.

All WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events. THAT IS IT!  Apart from all the choices you can make about Anders, Merril, Fenris, Isabela, the Arishok and probably more (can you spare Bartrand? I didn't try but it might be possible). And besides, Hawke's reaction and character is important as will probably become apparant in future games. There's still plenty of choices here, but I suppose it just isn't enough if people can't choose who is king.

[SkittlesKat96]

The ending had a certain charm to it...it wasn't really a cliffhanger (at least not a massive cliffhanger) but it's really open ended and the cutscene with Leliana and Cassandra was a bit mysterious, I'm also curious and want to know what happened to Hawke, he obviously has some priority if no one can find him (and even if you side with the templars and don't flee from Kirkwall Hawke leaves Kirkwall mysteriously after three days of being Viscount...)

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 20 mars 2011 - 01:06 .

[da 2pacalypse]

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's "amazing"... but yes, the ending was good. There are however way too many unanswered questions.