82 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

Noatz wrote...

How else am I supposed to interpret caps? They are the textual equivalent of shouting. However if you insist they are for emphasis I am willing to treat them as such...

The choices don't MATTER! How can you say this when you haven't seen the reprecussions?

The choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game! How about the next game(s) then? Most of the choices you make in Origins don't affect anything in that game either. Besides the statement is untrue anyway, if you kill Anders he won't be helping you against Meredith now will he. If Isabela disappears then neither will she. Gaining friendship or rivalry is ultimately a choice as well.

They still come back to HELP no matter what! Even if they die in the deep roads? Interesting.

All WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events. THAT IS IT!  Apart from all the choices you can make about Anders, Merril, Fenris, Isabela, the Arishok and probably more (can you spare Bartrand? I didn't try but it might be possible). And besides, Hawke's reaction and character is important as will probably become apparant in future games. There's still plenty of choices here, but I suppose it just isn't enough if people can't choose who is king.

Guess I'll try italics next time. 

Next game? Really? So now we have to wait til the next sequel before we get some forms of resolution for a supposedly standalone game? I let ME go simply because it's a planned trilogy and one big story of which I understand the main plot will not resolved under the third installment. DA is not ME. But, whatsoever, I guess buying multiple $7 DLCs just to see a resolution for $60 game is the industry standard now.

You also seem to miss my point on roleplaying. Does DA2 have any choices? Of course. But none are meaningful or lasting. They're just choices you click and the story continues like nothing happened. As for DA:O, the choice for each of the main quests were meaningful in the sense that it mattered. Everything had a cost with your decisions from saving Connor to redeeming Zathrian which affected the ending in one way or another. If the elves surivived, they will continue to live at the hands of new Keeper who effectively keeps the peace. If the werewolves survived, they go crazy evantually and tragically never returned to their original human form. Were the epilogue slides of DA:O perfect? No, but at least they shows you the results and consequences of your choice.  Now, how did Carver's death or him becoming a Grey Warden or becoming a Templar affect the ending whatsoever? The Act 1 choice hardly affected Act 2 or Act 3 besides for a brief dialogue here or there.

As for the companions, I will love for you to tell me how you stopped Ander's from blowing up the Chantry or Merill from losing her Keeper. The only exception is Isabela where she actually comes back if you managed to cuddle her enough. Whether Varric's brother Bartrand dies or not, nothing really negative or positive happens unless you count the difference of dialogue with Varric. Yes. there's a choice but so what? The game wouldn't care what you picked up either way since nothing changes.

Finally, in response to the Archdemon finale vs. Meredieth finale.

In DA:O we had a choice to meet a result: Do the Dark Ritual (and who does it) and risk the danger of Morrigan's demon baby or die killing the archdemon with Morrigan leaving you to your fate.

In DA2: You side with the mages - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels and Hawke disappears
             You side with the templars - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels, and Hawke is briefly viscount and then disappears.

Yeah... kinda different.

In the end, I'm not hating on the game. I just wished for more different choices with different consequences rather than 4 choices linking to a similar ending.

Modifié par Savber100, 20 mars 2011 - 04:07 .

[dreman9999]

Savber100 wrote...

A cliffhanger ain't an ending. Just finished the game last night and all I can think was... of all the choices I made as Champion was there anything that I did that changed ANYTHING? Sure the game is already set as the world at the brink of war but that's the problem. The choices I made didn't even cause a dent on the story. Nothing I did prevented the war, nothing I did prevented Anders from blowing up the Chantry, nothing I did prevented Orisino and Meredith from turning on me. The end just confirmed my fear that DA2 is more like an interactive movie rather than game I roleplay.
Also Bioware didn't make KOTOR2... It was Obsidian. ;P

That was the point of the strory. Sometime, no matter what you do you can't change anything. That was the moral of the story. No matter whatyou do you feel like a moron because the people you put trust in fail you. And you can't complain about not changing the end because, your opionions are revelutionary or Vincount.
Even though you may say,"Oh no matter what I do the war happens in DA2".
DA:O was the same way....No matter what you did you had to fight the archdemon.

I think your problem is that your not focusing on the meaning or ideals of the story.

[dreman9999]

Savber100 wrote...

Noatz wrote...

How else am I supposed to interpret caps? They are the textual equivalent of shouting. However if you insist they are for emphasis I am willing to treat them as such...

The choices don't MATTER! How can you say this when you haven't seen the reprecussions?

The choice doesn't change ANYTHING in the game! How about the next game(s) then? Most of the choices you make in Origins don't affect anything in that game either. Besides the statement is untrue anyway, if you kill Anders he won't be helping you against Meredith now will he. If Isabela disappears then neither will she. Gaining friendship or rivalry is ultimately a choice as well.

They still come back to HELP no matter what! Even if they die in the deep roads? Interesting.

All WE control is Hawke's REACTION to the events. THAT IS IT!  Apart from all the choices you can make about Anders, Merril, Fenris, Isabela, the Arishok and probably more (can you spare Bartrand? I didn't try but it might be possible). And besides, Hawke's reaction and character is important as will probably become apparant in future games. There's still plenty of choices here, but I suppose it just isn't enough if people can't choose who is king.

Guess I'll try italics next time. 

Next game? Really? So now we have to wait til the next sequel before we get some forms of resolution for a supposedly standalone game? I let ME go simply because it's a planned trilogy and one big story of which I understand the main plot will not resolved under the third installment. DA is not ME. But, whatsoever, I guess buying multiple $7 DLCs just to see a resolution for $60 game is the industry standard now.

You also seem to miss my point on roleplaying. Does DA2 have any choices? Of course. But none are meaningful or lasting. They're just choices you click and the story continues like nothing happened. As for DA:O, the choice for each of the main quests were meaningful in the sense that it mattered. Everything had a cost with your decisions from saving Connor to redeeming Zathrian which affected the ending in one way or another. If the elves surivived, they will continue to live at the hands of new Keeper who effectively keeps the peace. If the werewolves survived, they go crazy evantually and tragically never returned to their original human form. Were the epilogue slides of DA:O perfect? No, but at least they shows you the results and consequences of your choice.  Now, how did Carver's death or him becoming a Grey Warden or becoming a Templar affect the ending whatsoever? The Act 1 choice hardly affected Act 2 or Act 3 besides for a brief dialogue here or there.

As for the companions, I will love for you to tell me how you stopped Ander's from blowing up the Chantry or Merill from losing her Keeper. The only exception is Isabela where she actually comes back if you managed to cuddle her enough. Whether Varric's brother Bartrand dies or not, nothing really negative or positive happens unless you count the difference of dialogue with Varric. Yes. there's a choice but so what? The game wouldn't care what you picked up either way since nothing changes.

Finally, in response to the Archdemon finale vs. Meredieth finale.

In DA:O we had a choice to meet a result: Do the Dark Ritual (and who does it) and risk the danger of Morrigan's demon baby or die killing the archdemon with Morrigan leaving you to your fate.

In DA2: You side with the mages - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels and Hawke disappears
             You side with the templars - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels, and Hawke is briefly viscount and then disappears.

Yeah... kinda different.

In the end, I'm not hating on the game. I just wished for more different choices with different consequences rather than 4 choices linking to a similar ending.

Next game is going to be a new character. Also, we know what happened to Hawke. He ether ran off or became a vincount. We just don't know what happen to everyone else,except for that one companition.

[Savber100]

dreman9999 wrote...

That was the point of the strory. Sometime, no matter what you do you can't change anything. That was the moral of the story. No matter whatyou do you feel like a moron because the people you put trust in fail you. And you can't complain about not changing the end because, your opionions are revelutionary or Vincount.
Even though you may say,"Oh no matter what I do the war happens in DA2".
DA:O was the same way....No matter what you did you had to fight the archdemon.

I think your problem is that your not focusing on the meaning or ideals of the story.

Hence why I believe that this game is more of an interactive movie rather than a RPG. Why do I think that? Mainly because I'm just part of the audience and I react accordingly to what I see and make Hawke react the same as me but in the end, I'm not playing a role in this movie. Is it a good movie? Sure, I get to think of several complex issues here and there but it's not really a role-playing game.

Is this what Bioware wanted to achieve? Then, I guess I have nothing else to say except for kudos for making Hawke feel like a leave being swept alongside an inevitable storm when the devs told us that this man somewhat changed the entire world! Hawke didn't do that. Anders did.

As for the archdemon, I already addresed that my other post.

dreman9999 wrote...

]Next game is going to be a new
character. Also, we know what happened to Hawke. He ether ran off or
became a vincount. We just don't know what happen to everyone
else,except for that one companition.

Eh... rewatch the ending again. Cassandra clearly states that Hawke has disappeared like the Warden no matter who you sided with.

Modifié par Savber100, 20 mars 2011 - 04:31 .

[In Exile]

You changed things throughout the game. Had decisions to make, but a big theme in the game is how inevitable the war was, despite a character who wants to keep everything toghether.

[Noatz]

Savber100 wrote...
Guess I'll try italics next time. 

You're free to use whatever text formatting you wish, just don't complain if others interpret your RANDOM USE OF CAPS in a certain way.

Next game? Really? So now we have to wait til the next sequel before we get some forms of resolution for a supposedly standalone game? I let ME go simply because it's a planned trilogy and one big story of which I understand the main plot will not resolved under the third installment. DA is not ME. But, whatsoever, I guess buying multiple $7 DLCs just to see a resolution for $60 game is the industry standard now.

Just as you only feel the ripples of most of the choices you make in Origins in Awakening and DA2, the same is true for this game. You must think DA is a different series than it is, "standalone" doesn't have to mean "completely disconnected from the rest of the series so you can have your wicked way with the world".

You also seem to miss my point on roleplaying. Does DA2 have any choices? Of course. But none are meaningful or lasting. They're just choices you click and the story continues like nothing happened. As for DA:O, the choice for each of the main quests were meaningful in the sense that it mattered. Everything had a cost with your decisions from saving Connor to redeeming Zathrian which affected the ending in one way or another. If the elves surivived, they will continue to live at the hands of new Keeper who effectively keeps the peace. If the werewolves survived, they go crazy evantually and tragically never returned to their original human form. Were the epilogue slides of DA:O perfect? No, but at least they shows you the results and consequences of your choice.  Now, how did Carver's death or him becoming a Grey Warden or becoming a Templar affect the ending whatsoever? The Act 1 choice hardly affected Act 2 or Act 3 besides for a brief dialogue here or there.

See, what you're doing is attempting to transfer your frustration at having no effective closure via an epilogue (a reasonable enough criticism), into bashing the plot and its apparent lack of choice as a whole. My belief is that Hawke's story is going to resume again in an expansion set relatively soon after the events at the Gallows, which would make them writing a proper Origins style epilogue redundant. If this isn't the case your concerns become somewhat more valid, it is however a bit too early to make such presumptuous complaints.

As for the companions, I will love for you to tell me how you stopped Ander's from blowing up the Chantry or Merill from losing her Keeper. The only exception is Isabela where she actually comes back if you managed to cuddle her enough. Whether Varric's brother Bartrand dies or not, nothing really negative or positive happens unless you count the difference of dialogue with Varric. Yes. there's a choice but so what? The game wouldn't care what you picked up either way since nothing changes.

I believe there is an option to not give Merril the tool in Act 2, thus stopping her stupid plan and indirectly saving Marethari. As for Anders, the choice I referred to was in sparing his wretched life or not, and not to belabour the point of earlier - the real reprecussions of this choice will be in future games. Just like if Alistair got himself killed in Origins or not.

Finally, in response to the Archdemon finale vs. Meredieth finale.

In DA:O we had a choice to meet a result: Do the Dark Ritual (and who does it) and risk the danger of Morrigan's demon baby or die killing the archdemon with Morrigan leaving you to your fate.

In DA2: You side with the mages - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels and Hawke disappears
             You side with the templars - Orisino dies, Meredith dies, the templar remains in Kirkwall, Circle everywhere rebels, and Hawke is briefly viscount and then disappears.

Yeah... kinda different.

In the end, I'm not hating on the game. I just wished for more different choices with different consequences rather than 4 choices linking to a similar ending.

Of course you ignore the disadvantages of having Origin's multitude of endings - you can never see your Warden again, despite him being (if alive) one of the most important people in the world.

You can't have both you know. Its either choice in endings, or a continuing plot that develops to tell a greater story with the potential for your player-character to return as an NPC or companion later on.

Pick your poison (or candy ), depending on your outlook on life.

Modifié par Noatz, 20 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[AFCommando]

side with mages: Enchanter goes nuts trys to kills you, all mages die some templars die.

side with templars: enchanter goes nuts trys to kill you all mages die some templars die.

alot of variety in the endings except you become viscount in one even though you cant do anything as it.

[Big I]

The ending we deserved happened in Act 2 when we confronted the Arishok.

[Huami]

Savber100 wrote...
Hence why I believe that this game is more
of an interactive movie rather than a RPG. Why do I think that? Mainly
because I'm just part of the audience and I react accordingly to what I
see and make Hawke react the same as me but in the end, I'm not playing a
role in this movie. Is it a good movie? Sure, I get to think of several
complex issues here and there but it's not really a role-playing game.

+10 for a dragon age movie

Modifié par Huami, 20 mars 2011 - 05:03 .

[mesmerizedish]

chaosapiant wrote...

Maybe i'm in the minority, and I can see where people are coming from, but the ending to DA2 was absolutely fantastic.  I REALLY hope that Bioware expands on this chantry/templar war in the coming DLCs/expansions/games, because the story is starting to deliver on the promises the first game made. 

When I heard people whining about an incomplete ending, I was thinking that EA had rushed Bioware into making another KOTOR2, but thankfully I was wrong.  After the credits roll, I realized that this may actually be Bioware's finest storytelling hour.

I just finished the game a few minutes ago, and I agree completely. I just wish Varric would decide which woman won my heart. Hearing Isaberrill is... jarring.

[Acacia_Kitty]

I love the way the game played out and I loved the ending. There are obviously big things coming in the world of Thedas and I hope that there is some DLC soon and that they're already working on Dragon Age 3 because I can not wait to see what happens next.

[cast_]

What ending? It had a pretty cool preview for Biowares next game after I killed Meredith, but I didn't see any ending.

[Statulos]

Ends are supposed to tie up stuff. Not everything and completely necessarily, but tie up.

The ending here does not tell you anything about big and small events such as:

-When the templar army arrives at Kirwall, Hawke and the rest were gone; where and how?
-Companions scatter. I can imagine Aveline going back to Ferelden or Isabela sailing away but Merril? And Varric?
-Varric is interrogated in what seems to be Hawke´s state. When? 7 years after the blight or more?
-What about your investments in mines?

Simply put, the ending seems to be a prologue to expansions/dlc´s.

[mesmerizedish]

Statulos wrote...

-When the templar army arrives at Kirwall, Hawke and the rest were gone; where and how?
-Companions scatter. I can imagine Aveline going back to Ferelden or Isabela sailing away but Merril? And Varric?
-Varric is interrogated in what seems to be Hawke´s state. When? 7 years after the blight or more?
-What about your investments in mines?

-That would be telling, and presumably by ship or by foot?
-Merrill stayed with me. Varric probably went back to running his family under his cousin's name.
-Three years after the battle at the Gallows
-Many people likely didn't have an investment in the mine. It was entirely optional.

[Statulos]

-Sure they´re not taking a low cost plane. Still, where to? I´d personaly love to see more about Sebastian since he left to gather an army. I was so unimpressed with the holier than thou chantry bow that I laughed.
-What about Bartrand (I spared him)? Still insane?
-You have investments in the mine. All the thing or just half. You´re made partner in act 2.

[ZombiePowered]

It isn't a cliffhanger. The story of DA2 is how Hawke became a legend. We learn that. What we don't learn is what happens after the legend of Hawke is born. We get a glimpse of the consequences of his actions, but the story being told is not the mage rebellion, or even how the mage rebellion started. The story being told is Hawke. That is why the story of DA2 is so fantastic: it isn't about the events that happen around Hawke, it's about Hawke himself. It is the story of a man. In Origins the important stuff is how you shape the world. Who the Warden is isn't really important. In DA2 its not just about how your actions change the world around you, but also about how Hawke is shaped by the events around him. That story is told. It ends when Varric closes the book. Everything after that is a taste of things to come. It is a bonus gift from Bioware; the thing that typically would be the bonus clip at the end of the credits.

[mesmerizedish]

Statulos wrote...

-Sure they´re not taking a low cost plane. Still, where to? I´d personaly love to see more about Sebastian since he left to gather an army. I was so unimpressed with the holier than thou chantry bow that I laughed.
-What about Bartrand (I spared him)? Still insane?
-You have investments in the mine. All the thing or just half. You´re made partner in act 2.

I let Varric kill Bartrand, so I don't know about him. I don't care about Sebastian anymore. I was bothered that I didn't have the option to kill him (which is a large part of the reason I let Anders live; I was hoping there'd be a confrontation and I'd get to chop his hypoctrical head off).

What I mean about the mine is that you don't have to do any of the mine quests. You can finish the game having never spoken to Hubert.  And that's not really the sort of thing that I'd be interested in hearing about in Varric's epilogue "We all had to leave Hawke's side eventually. Well, all except Merrill. And while the Circles all rose up against the Chantry, the Champion received a letter letting her know that her investments had soared in value!"

[vigna]

chaosapiant wrote...

Shacary wrote...

kudos Savber100, totally phrased my feelings . I didnt even know the ending was comign that quick. I went aroudn a corner and boom power ranger mega fights, and bam, nothing but scrolled epilogue. I was like Huh, let down and disappointed, as you aptly noted, none of my choices made a difference, It was like playng a movie and occasionally ad-libbing a line that didnt matter in the end.
A big step back from DAO or even DAA. OK game, from an action stand point but not in line with what i thought of rpgs. O well.

I'm not sure how anyone can not know that the end of the game is around the corner.  Everyone for the last 2 hours of the game practically beats you over the head with it, makes big speeches, and gets with the killing.  I didn't know Orsino would transform into the harvester, but I knew i'd likely fight him.  I didn't know Meridith had a lyrium infused light saber, but I knew when the fight was coming, long before it did.  It was extremely telegraphed.

That's part of the problem isn't it? You just admitted the story is heavy- handed yet you say it's good. Heavy-handed 3rd acts aren't generally good. That's my biggest complaint.....the story is forced on you rather than flowing naturally.

[Medhia Nox]

If something is inevitable - it ought to be backstory. If I were to pull this crap with any of my writing groups I would be told to skip to the good part. If this were a novel, I'd let this take a chapter at most.

It's like telling the story of Les Miserables - but showing the19 years of imprisonment of Jean Valjean first and then, thirty hours of prison story later - he is released from prison and Les Miserables starts. Don't sell me this crap - sell me the good stuff.

The real game should have started where Dragon Age 2 ended...

They got my 60$ - they won't get 60$ more, or even 30$ any time soon. Perhaps if they gave me the conclusion of this story I'd be more understanding, but something tells me this was a money grab and they'll expect more. I don't fault them for it... but they won't get more money from me.

[Beerfish]

What was left at the end 'to be determined' was good, however I do not like it when companions whom you have spent the whole game investing time with just go poof at the end. That was the big flaw if you ask me. Even if you are going to expand on a story you still need a bit of closure on compaions if you ask me.

[mesmerizedish]

Beerfish wrote...

What was left at the end 'to be determined' was good, however I do not like it when companions whom you have spent the whole game investing time with just go poof at the end. That was the big flaw if you ask me. Even if you are going to expand on a story you still need a bit of closure on compaions if you ask me.

Well, you and your LI live happily ever after. Beyond that, I think detailing exactly how each companion left Hawke's party is a little much. Maybe it's something that they'll explore in DLC and/or an expansion?

[Slithermorph]

I'm generally not a fan of obvious, cliffhanger endings but, in this case, I thought it was acceptable because of what it implies. Does it seem to anyone else that Leliana and Seeker Uptight-What's-Her-Face are implying that The Warden and Hawke are teaming up in Dragon Age 3? I think it would be a great idea to engineer DA3 to import characters from DA1+2 to have them save the world together.

[For The Win]

I loved the ending as well. What a way to keep us in suspense and excitement!
As someone else mentioned, it was a good way to leave it open and make quite clear that there are many more stories to be told of Thedas. Not an end, but a beginning. You can't forget that the game you just played was of Varric's tale that he was giving to the seeker in his own words. The bard himself said that he didn't know where the Champion was at that point.
I think this was a perfect way to pave a path for years and years of more Dragon Age games. BioWare has given us two complete games now with lengthy codexs full of ideas for new adventures within the world. (Plus Awakening, plus various DLC, plus David Gaider's two novels, etc. etc.)
I understand some people need closure with characters, but I'm the type of person who doesn't like things to get wrapped up and just end. I don't want to think that the Champion just went back home to her mansion and ate fancy imported orlesian cheese, married Fenris, re-opened the mines in the Bone Pit, and everything else just worked it self out. Wouldn't that have made the end of Varric's story really lame?? That wouldn't be very believable for me. I am extremely satisfied with the ending of the game.

[JulianoV]

Really? I honestly believe the "HE HAS GONE MAD" coin was tossed around carelessly to the point of becoming ridiculous.

"ANDERS, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
"ORSINO, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
"MEREDITH, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"

Everyone goes nuts and you start questioning your own sanity as you have to face Thriller dancing bronze statues, bronze Megazords and bronze arachnid mechas led by a lightsaber wielding possessed zealot just after Orsino became a Harvester, rendering one interesting and intriguing monster model into just a super aberration or something.

I do like where the story was led and the significance it will have on future games, but you had little to no input on how things turn out and the amount of stupidity on the last scenes bothers me deeply. It was like the game was flailing his arms in front of me yelling "NOW FEEL ANGRY! NOW FEEL DISAPPOINTED! NOW FEEL BETRAYED! NOW FEEL VENGEFUL! NOW FEEL HOPELESS! NOW FEEL DEPRESSED!" without properly conveying any of those emotions properly due to story incoherence.

Modifié par JulianoV, 20 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[UKZenosis]

The Bone Pit, by the End of Act 3, Hawke can own it. Hawke goes off with their Love Interest, The Chantry and Circle Collapse in on themselves, a war is brewing, who are the ones in the war?

(Qunari, Chantry, Templars(they went renegade if you side with Templars), Mages, Orlais, Fereldan, Starkhaven, Has Hawke led the people of kirkwall somewhere safe (looked abandoned to me in that last cutscene with Liliana and Cassandra? How is the Disappearance of Hawke and The Warden Linked? (asuming your warden didn't sacrifice), oh and the Thaig you Discover who built it?)

I think any Expansions Sequels will explore this war, I look forward to them, and bring conclusion to Hawkes and the Wardens Story.

Modifié par UKZenosis, 20 mars 2011 - 07:53 .