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Another amazing Smudboy video series "Fixing Mass Effect 2"


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#101
Vengeful Nature

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TMA LIVE wrote...

I was kind of hoping he'd try talking about a different game at this point. Like Origins.


I fully expect him to start tearing into DA2 now, and I look forward to it.

TelexFerra wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Has anyone pointed out yet that Smudboy stole his entire style of review/criticism from the guy who did the 90 minute reviews of the Star Wars prequels? Just sayin'.

What happened to him, anyway? Did he get the ban-hammer?


Really?
Didn't know.


Also he got perma-banned for swearing and insults.


RedLetterMedia/Plinkett or Smudboy?

smudboy gets very hostile when you disagree with him.


That's a shame.


Plinkett's reviews are nothing short of genius. Pretty funny, but also some pretty valid and deep film theory to go along with it. Check it out.

Anyway, Smudboy also got hostile to people who tried to be friendly. As I recall, Ecael, who had some very excellent suggestions for improvements for ME3 him(or was it her?)self, was trying to mediate a little back during the Smudboy Wars, and just got shot down for making too many jokes, in Smudboy's eyes, and not contributing enough to the increasingly futile and vicious debate.

I'm not saying that Smudboy didn't have some excellent points, and I agree with the vast majority of his plot and character analysis, but his methods of debate were a little... unfriendly.

As for these new vids, it just seems like flogging the dead donkey a little bit. ME2 is done, the milk's been spilt, we can't change it now, suggesting improvements just seems to be a little pointless. By all means critique, but this just smacks of backseat game developing.

A suggestion to Smudboy or his cohorts if they're reading this: a suggestion list for ME3 would be both interesting and constructive. Just sayin'...

:whistle:

Also, all this Ship Role, Camaraderie and Handler stuff isn't necessary. A game with those things would have the feeling of a micromanagement-heavy spaceship simulator rather than a story-centric shooter/RPG hybrid full of intrigue and discovery. Just tie up the plot, focus on it more, streamline some of the superfluous characters (I agree with his idea of merging Zaeed/Jacob and Miranda/Jack), and you've got a game that's true to the spirit of ME1 but stands on it's own just as well.

#102
Whatever42

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Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

What was Han Solo's relation to the main plot?

Without Han, Luke and Obi-Wan don't get off of Tatooine when they do and might have gotten captured. Or they wouldn't have reached Alderaan as fast as they did (since the Millennium Falcon's faster than most other ships) and the Death Star might have been gone by the time they got there, making it impossible for them to rescue Leia and figure out where to find the hidden Rebel base so they could deliver the Death Star plans.

The other ones aren't as obvious, but Han had a very clear and obvious role in the story.


Oh sure, but characters in ME2 had a tie the plot too. Without the Mordin, no seeker cure. Garrus provided weapons. Tali provided armor. One of them led the 2nd fire team. One of them was necessary to shield against the swarm in the SM. And they all participated on missions to fight the bad guys.

Don't get me wrong. I know the ME2 story can be improved and I want deeper interactions with the team. However, things like Okeer just happening to have scanned the IFF? For a race as secretive and as advanced as the collectors, you think they would have been careful to hide that. Its their biggest defense, after all. That's a plot hole. I'm rather shocked at Smudboy, actually.


The qualm is BioWare's perpetual need to shove the notion ME2 is a character driven story down are throat, when in reality they have virtually nothing to do with the plot. Garrus may provide a weapon augmentation however his role is essentially mindlessly calibrating the guns until called upon. He is not required to finish the plot and has no immediate impact on it. His role in combat is irrelevant.

Incorrect, a plot hole stems from an inconsistency in the narrative. Smudboy offers explanation, citing that after numerous dealings with the Collectors. He and his Quarian slaves scan their ship and discover an "IF-like" device. Shepard may subsequently ask Okeer to build the IFF. Everything slots together efficiently.


Most of the fellowship is irrelvant. All you really need is Frodo, Aragorn, and Gandalf. Chewbacca is clearly useless. As is C3PO. How dare those authors shove those characters down our throat. Why won't anyone think of the children?

And it doesn't slot together nicely. You'd think the Reapers wouldn't be so foolish as to let their IFF be scanned. And even if it was scanned, how could he possibly get the code? The Collectors wouldn't be broadcasting it. Why would they even let him see their ship? This is a highly secretive race. Trust me, Smudboy has called lesser things a plot hole and this is pretty significant.

#103
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Unlike Smudboy, he doesn't spam them at every conceivable opporunity and is, in fact, a fairly polite member of the forums.


Oh, you're cute. Smudboy doesn't spam anything and couldn't even if he wanted to. Mesina is anything but polite.

#104
KingDan97

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Sleepicub09 wrote...

omg hard to concentrate over that sqwabble of spit

This is exactly how I feel about Smud. I constantly see people lauding over how "good" his voice sounds but if I ever met him I'd have a hard time not punching him just for all of the spit slurring he does. It's "ess" not "esssssssss". Anyway, my thoughts on what I can bear to watch of the new videos it seems like a whole lot of tedium.

I'm playing an RPG not the Sims and if you truely want to give the game an organic, social feel than I shouldn't be able to order Kelly to go speak with people, force Garrus to make some food that's poisonous to him or anything else of the sort. Along with the idea that we should need to evidentily assign everyone on the ship to a role each mission which would just suck. There, I said it.

I shouldn't need to wait for my squaddies to be healed because I am PLAYING a game. This isn't Facebook, I shouldn't need to leave for 24 hours for my energy to recharge or my crops to grow. That is called tedium. It's not compelling, it's not engaging and it would just lead to more people quitting, leading to a very low finish rate of likely 10-15% merely because no one wants to sit through that.

Now, I am not saying that all of the streamlining from ME1-ME2 was good, however I always felt it was quite foolish that in a time when everything is produced on an assembly line somehow I feel the incessant need to strip my enemies of the clothes off their backs. It honestly made much more sense for my ship to replicate the technology as many times as I needed it compared to the basic breakdown of logic that was armor that wasn't one size fit all, or couldn't be modified to work on different species builds.

Loot makes sense in Fantasy RPGs, legendary items would exist because each one was a unique creation with a unique story they could be enchanted or charmed, cursed and hexed and overall it would make sense to see a varitation from one item to the next. If anything in Mass Effect that is the opposite because you are dealing with a standard, if upgrades come back in ME3, they should be used infinitely. As much hate as I know I'll get on that point it should be noted that EDI is very advanced, if she is capable of duplicating an entire armory of weapons down the smallest features than she should easily have the ability to recreate a scope, or a targeting macro or "frictionless materials".

Tagging salvage seems like an interesting idea but like many of the things I initially thought "that would be kind of fun" when he first proposed, he just blew it up to the point of alienating part of the consumer base that exists not just with ME2 but with RPGs in general. I enjoy the idea of rewarding exploration but his suggestion of removing methods by which you can identify interactive elements is foolish. It's a staple not only of RPGs but of video games in general and while not identifying Easter Eggs in that manner is fine, removing it altogether just breaks the game and would ruin the entire basis for discovery.

The various gametype idea holds similar problems, he mentions several different scenarios, that he himself can bring up examples of but quite frankly, a chase scene almost always fails(the few exceptions being games like Beyond Good and Evil, the original few Crash Bandicoots and the entire racing genre) for the simple fact that, especially in the case of Mass Effect, the movements don't give a proper feeling of momentum. You can tell me that I'm chasing down a bad guy but unless I suddenly have the ability to pull Assassin's Creed-esque parkour you won't convince me that I'm actually doing anything spectacular.

He also mentions destroying obstacles as you go, how would that be done? Would I whip out my AR and break a crate that the person I'm chasing just so happened to have forgot led directly in front of them? And wouldn't this, I don't know... Ruin any sense of pacing and urgency? I'm setting up explosives and running through hacking minigames as my target escapes or closes in on me? That's just a little foolish.

His suggestions about P/R and interrupts seem solid so long as the "class interrupts" are interchangable. For example, instead of pulling out a gun, which a soldier may do, a biotic may grab the target in an attempt to stop them, or a tech expert would overload their wepon. These would be functional and interchangable and tbh most of the interrupt animations are the same anyway(Pull gun, throw arm in front of someone to stop them). As for hybrid classes, they should have an even mix, with Sentinels filling their jack of all trades idea and doing one of the three.

However, the main issue I hold with his P/R system is to shift how they work on a basic level. If you want to be paragon but dislike how one of the choices come up(too idyllic or w/e) than you just pick the neutural. No one is forcing you to hold your character in that bubble and if you do than you are to blame. Smaller issues include his latter intricacies which would've taken almost an entire decade to write, edit and record. Requesting something as foolish as different reactions to different species is the whole idea of role playing. If you don't want your Shepard to like Vorcha than don't be paragon to them. Simple as that. He claims that there needs to be a greater focus on species intricacies all the while streiotyping them to ideas as simple as "Vorcha dislike the weak" or "Quarians don't like those who are unsociable" is a crass oversimplification of an entire species. The entire idea he presents is yet again overly tedious, however unlike his other tedious concepts this would be tedious for everyone involved and not just the player.

His next point I shall sum up in one simple sentence. Mercs are guns for hire and have no agendas. See how easy that was? And again, he just suggests adding content instead of actually FIXING anything. He is rewriting, nothing more. And considering he had stated himself that he used to be a writer or a game designer(I forget which, it was a long while since I've seen him post) but he failed, he has no more buisness trying to do that than an account would have trying to preform brain surgery.

And as much as I'm sure there's much more nonsense and tedium to digest within the over an hour of footage he's got otherwise, that's all I'm willing to deal with.



tl;dr

Smud is just a tedious failure of a writer. He is not improving Mass Effect he's merely trying to scare off those he deems not worthy.

#105
CroGamer002

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Saphra Deden wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Unlike Smudboy, he doesn't spam them at every conceivable opporunity and is, in fact, a fairly polite member of the forums.


Oh, you're cute. Smudboy doesn't spam anything and couldn't even if he wanted to. Mesina is anything but polite.



Well you are like 1 month here?

#106
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Mesina2 wrote...

Well you are like 1 month here?


Posts stick around a lot longer than one month, you know.

In any case, that is long enough to form an opinion about someone.

You are unfriendly.

#107
CroGamer002

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Well you are like 1 month here?


Posts stick around a lot longer than one month, you know.

In any case, that is long enough to form an opinion about someone.

You are unfriendly.


And I was just thinking we were becoming friends.

#108
TelexFerra

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Ecael, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.

#109
CroGamer002

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TelexFerra wrote...

Ecael, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.


Yeah, I miss her a lot.:(

#110
Jzadek72

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I can see that he is intelligent, and has some valid points, but he's too convinced of his own greatness for me to like him. That, and he swore at me once for disagreeing with him.

#111
Jzadek72

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Well you are like 1 month here?


Posts stick around a lot longer than one month, you know.

In any case, that is long enough to form an opinion about someone.

You are unfriendly.


You think Smudboy is pleasant, and Mesina unfriendly? Where the hell have you been? Mesina has always been perfectly polite, while Smudboy, well, I refer you to my above post.

#112
2kgnsiika

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Smudboy:

There are some great points in your videos, but your communication skills suck. If your idea is simply to point out flaws, then you have succeeded. If you want to give constructive criticism that is not only valid, but will be recognized by the devs, then learn to be more polite and make the videos more viewer friendly.

#113
Dark Glasses

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I pretty much agree everything Smudboy said in those videos, but unfortunately gaming is now marketing towards to Mainstream/Casual(dumb) players. You'll never see big developers making complicated games anymore.

#114
Undertone

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TelexFerra wrote...

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7



Full of win. I can only hope Bioware can take some of those suggestions and use them for Mass Effect 3.

#115
Da_Lion_Man

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Mesina2 wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

Ecael, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.


Yeah, I miss her a lot.:(


What happened to her, if I may ask?

Anyway, I really like some of his ideas, but I think it's pretty unlikely that those systems are going to be implemented. It will take a ton of work and Mass Effect 3 just has a standard development cycle of 2 years (yes I know they might have started earlier, but you could say the same about other games).

#116
Bourne Endeavor

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Dark Glasses wrote...

I pretty much agree everything Smudboy said in those videos, but unfortunately gaming is now marketing towards to Mainstream/Casual(dumb) players. You'll never see big developers making complicated games anymore.


Probably why many are awaiting for another gaming crash. We can weed out the trash (hello Activision) and smack the others into developing unique and complex titles in addition to simplistic ones. Variety is the spice of life, to use a tired cliche.

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

Ecael, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.


Yeah, I miss her a lot.:(


What happened to her, if I may ask?


If I am not mistaken she merely moved on to other games. I recall her having mentioned she played ME2 enough.

#117
UndercoverDoctor

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Take notes BioWare.

#118
Bourne Endeavor

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Most of the fellowship is irrelvant. All you really need is Frodo, Aragorn, and Gandalf. Chewbacca is clearly useless. As is C3PO. How dare those authors shove those characters down our throat. Why won't anyone think of the children?

And it doesn't slot together nicely. You'd think the Reapers wouldn't be so foolish as to let their IFF be scanned. And even if it was scanned, how could he possibly get the code? The Collectors wouldn't be broadcasting it. Why would they even let him see their ship? This is a highly secretive race. Trust me, Smudboy has called lesser things a plot hole and this is pretty significant.


I cannot debate those titles given I have watched nothing of Star Wars or LotR. Pertaining strictly to Mass Effect 2, the only plot-integral character is Mordin. It is his plot device the drives the story forward, and thus a proper example of how a character should act in a character driven story. The rest are there for fluff and gameplay. Tali is completely optional and while not recruiting her will result in the loss of another. It does nothing to impact the plot. Should ME3 disregard the cast of ME2, then they will be completely irrelevant and their deaths amount to nothing. For a "character driven story" that is horrendous. Thus, ME2 is an episodic structured story akin to a television sitcom, not a character driven one.

What I can speculate on from the titles you mentioned is they seemingly are about the story, not the specifically the characters, which in a similar capacity to Mass Effect.

#119
Dracotamer

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I agree with pretty much everything here. Just hope Bioware starts listening to their fans. Last coupe games have not been on par with previous games.

#120
Mongerty2

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 Ok, so I am just gonna go over his points in a quick format. (Italics are my opinion)
Fix Suits (and helmets):
Yes
No planet scanning (Instead collect materials from missions):You know, I think it would be pretty weird to collect such a large amount of minerals as you happen to walk around on your missions. It needs fixed, but not in the way he suggests.
Weapon Changes (Ammo, Bring back mods, etc...)Honestly, this is all opinion. I am fine with the ME2 power system. If he wants us to pick them up instead of level them up, go for it.
Tranquilizer bullets added......
Lets not even get into the fact that this would be a completely new mechanic of the game. Lets not do that and polish the already existing mechanics. (plus, we have melee for that)
Crouching  Added
Yes

NO HARBINGER. (We really focus on the collector general and his struggle against indoctrination, also remove end boss)
This one strikes me as odd, considering it pushes the Reapers farther away from the main plot and weakens the main antaganist. (Considering we never actually meet the collector general). I think Harbinger was fine.

No more Loyalty Missions. (instead exposition is through the main plot)
Sure, we would all like to see them done a little better. Honestly though? Making the exposition as part of the main plot restricts the recruitment order to a set pattern and makes most of the characters "Must Recruits" which sort of kills it for me. No longer would we be able to go after Tali as soon as she is available, but as soon as the game gets to that storyline, for instance. 

No Cerberus or N7 Logos
Why? I don't get this. Does he have a vendetta against logos? He is speaking out of his ass here.

No Hammerhead
Sure it has it's flaws, but I am pretty sure we are all in consensus in that it actually breaks up parts of the game quite well. Better to fix it than just remove it.

More exposition of Alien Culture.

Yes please! This is why ME is good. I like his translator idea a lot.

Shep doesn't die at start

Really, we all know he has  a problem with this. HOW DARE BIOWARE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Collector Fixes
Really, it is all great if told in backstory. If we are exposed to this up front, the story gets bogged down. Also, If you were not spoonfed the information, then it would make no sense. This would really kill the momentum of the story.

Squad Gameplay
HIs gameplay fixes in terms of Squad roles is a complete mess. I get what he is going for. (give everyone a role, train them at that role) It just doesn't really work and sort of boils down to the fact that it would be confusing and convoluted. (I was going to leave it at that, but he sort of drags this on)

Specialized roles (Squad members each gain a role that affects things such as enemies, intelligence, etc...)
The problem being that this drastically changes the gameplay away from the ME feel, and gets really confusing . Plus it seems to cut down freedom on how one uses a squad.

Ship assignments (Characters are assigned to train/ interact in certain parts of the ship)
I like the training aspect, but not the social. He goes on about cooking and relaxing like this is the sims. We don't need direct control of our teem. Plus, all the possible interactions would be a **** to program.

Secondary Characters (Non-combat support people like Kelly, EDI, etc...)
I like the idea of non-combat characters, but this all builds into his "Living community" idea. It is just way too convoluted and sounds like a different game. Seriously, Smud is clearly not a programmer if he wants a social roleplaying game in the middle of his Action RPG. We have a good balance right now, but his idea would tip the scales into something like 75% squad interaction, 25% combat. (and that is being generous)

I don't think I am going to bother with Video 3 and so on. This ended up with me rambling.

#121
Gamer790

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As of now smudboy has made 47 videos spanning a length 6 hours 36 minutes and 3 seconds. I pretty sure of this because added up all of the values myself. I'm not sure what to think of this guy by this point. On the one hand I thought that this guy had some good points when I first started watching his videos last summer. I thought he had a lot of good points and brought up some things that I wasn't pleased with either though I considered ME2 to be, and still do, great game. However, with each new video this guy has been releasing he starts coming across as more and more a pompus ****** to me. Plus this one time when I read a comment by him where he decided that the first question he would ask bioware would be, "Do you guys know what a plot is?" sounded to me like an insinuation that knew what was what better than bioware did. I also don't like the certain and absolute nature of arguements and the general lack humility in any of them. He just seems to have this ardent refusal to admit any fault no matter what. Now I'm trying to judge him personally or anything I'm just giving my opinion.

#122
Mongerty2

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Ugh, I just made it to the 4th video. I don't know if I can watch any more. He just suggested mixing Zaeed and Jacob into one character......Yeah.....

You guys are on board with all of that?

#123
Volus Warlord

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Wow, he really wanted to completely tear apart ME2.

Tell him to write a book or something. He might be sensible.

#124
GuardianAngel470

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Saphra Deden wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Unlike Smudboy, he doesn't spam them at every conceivable opporunity and is, in fact, a fairly polite member of the forums.


Oh, you're cute. Smudboy doesn't spam anything and couldn't even if he wanted to. Mesina is anything but polite.



Yeah dude, to the best of my knowledge, Smudboy was banned a while ago.

If he wasn't banned, then he hasn't been around much. I've been here since Jan 2010 when the game came out and so have just a little more experience with the personalities of the various forumites.

I have many constructive discussions with Mesina.

But that's enough of discussing off topic stuff like forumites.

Long Live destructive criticism!

#125
GuardianAngel470

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Mongerty2 wrote...

Ugh, I just made it to the 4th video. I don't know if I can watch any more. He just suggested mixing Zaeed and Jacob into one character......Yeah.....

You guys are on board with all of that?


I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the videos blended together after a while. I can't actually expect the people who agree with him to agree with every single point he made, even if they said they did.