228 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

I recommend that he either

1.) Write his own games
2.) Give up and find more productive things to do.

[Silmane]

Volus Warlord wrote...

I recommend that he either

1.) Write his own games
2.) Give up and find more productive things to do.

Deeming what's productive and what isn't for someone other than yourself is played out. 

[GuardianAngel470]

Mesina2 wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

Ecael, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.

Yeah, I miss her a lot.

I had no idea Ecael was a girl. In that case, she was awesome...

Her post taught me how to edit my save games using Gibbed in clear and concise terms.

[Iakus]

[quote]Mongerty2 wrote...

NO HARBINGER. (We really focus on the collector general and his struggle against indoctrination, also remove end boss)
This one strikes me as odd, considering it pushes the Reapers farther away from the main plot and weakens the main antaganist. (Considering we never actually meet the collector general). I think Harbinger was fine.[/quote]

Harbringer was, to me, nothing more than a disembodied voice mocking me in the game.  It could have been totally removed  and nothing would be missed.  I think what Smudboy was getting at was that a stronger central villain was needed.  SInce the Collector General was already there,  why not make better use of him? 

[quote]
No more Loyalty Missions. (instead exposition is through the main plot)
Sure, we would all like to see them done a little better. Honestly though? Making the exposition as part of the main plot restricts the recruitment order to a set pattern and makes most of the characters "Must Recruits" which sort of kills it for me. No longer would we be able to go after Tali as soon as she is available, but as soon as the game gets to that storyline, for instance. [/quote]

I don't think the "recruit them in any order you want" added anything to the game.  You recruit them, stash them on the Normandy, bring them out when their mission comes up.  Then stash them on the Normandy again.  Smudboy's idea, while far from perfect, would at least have added more participation from them.

[quote]
No Cerberus or N7 Logos
Why? I don't get this. Does he have a vendetta against logos? He is speaking out of his ass here .[/quote]

Can't speak for N7 (though that seems to be fast approaching a Superman or Batman-like symbol), but seeing the Cerberus logo on the side of the Normandy, on the crews' uniform, on Miranda and Jacob, as well as every piece of furniture, computer terminal, and , and pencil Shepard owns seems comically stupid. 
[quote]
[/i]
No Hammerhead
[i]Sure it has it's flaws, but I am pretty sure we are all in consensus in that it actually breaks up parts of the game quite well. Better to fix it than just remove it.[/quote]
Replace "Hammerhead" with "Mako" and I'm in total agreement   Hammerhead?  Kill it with fire!
[quote]

Shep doesn't die at start
Really, we all know he has  a problem with this. HOW DARE BIOWARE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.[/quote]

"Different" is neither an inherently good nor bad thing.  This particular "different" however, is a lame, cliched piece of melodrama followed by a pice of good old space magic.  imo of course

[quote]
Collector Fixes
[i]Really, it is all great if told in backstory. If we are exposed to this up front, the story gets bogged down. Also, If you were not spoonfed the information, then it would make no sense. This would really kill the momentum of the story.[/quote

It does sound complicated.  Perhaps too much for a single game.  But it sure beats"Collectors are Protheans!  Keep firing!"

Modifié par iakus, 21 mars 2011 - 02:59 .

[ADLegend21]

Yeah let's listen to an ametuer tell a sucessful gamimg company how to fix a game that got a 9.5 out of 10 rating. Maybe he'll find out how to get them that last .5 to be perfect!
/incredibly obvious sarcasm

[KingDan97]

Volus Warlord wrote...

I recommend that he either

1.) Write his own games
2.) Give up and find more productive things to do.

Here's the fun bit of irony though. He tried to make games aparently, it's one of the few bits of information about him that he actually said. He also said promptly that he'd failed and that he "wasn't proud of it". So I just have to ask myself who the hell he thinks he is to criticize and disseminate the works of people who have been doing it for much longer than him, and in such a pretentious and elitist way too. That's why I disagree with him, not because he's always wrong, but on principle. Because he thinks he's always right.

[Iakus]

Bah, opinions are so overrated.  Who needs em?  It's doubleplus ungood crimethink!

[Il Divo]

KingDan97 wrote...
Here's the fun bit of irony though. He tried to make games aparently, it's one of the few bits of information about him that he actually said. He also said promptly that he'd failed and that he "wasn't proud of it". So I just have to ask myself who the hell he thinks he is to criticize and disseminate the works of people who have been doing it for much longer than him, and in such a pretentious and elitist way too. That's why I disagree with him, not because he's always wrong, but on principle. Because he thinks he's always right.

Critiquing a game and making a game are two entirely different things. If a director chooses to create a film and make it available to the general public, he is offering his work to public opinion. I don't need to be good at making video games to judge them because I wasn't the one who chose to submit anything in the first place.

Smudboy doesn't need to be good at making video games to be good at taking them apart.

Modifié par Il Divo, 21 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[squee913]

I have to make an amendment to my earlier post now that I have finished all the parts. While I think the game play changes are cool. If someone were to try and put all of those elements into a game, however, you would have the largest, most complex game ever created. You want the complexity of Sims with the refined game play of a shooter, with the micromanagement of an RPG, and a story complexity that boarders on a Game of Thrones novel. While I would love a game like this, the idea that is game is possible is based less in practical expectations and more in fan boy wish lists.

As for the changes to the story... their is a big difference between tweaking a plot to fix it, and writing your own story borrowing Mass Effect's universe. Smud has written his own story and slapped the names and places from mass effect on it. To illustrate the point, try watching his narrative of the story and change the names of the places, characters. Other than the fact that aliens are kidnapping people, and that you are training for a suicide mission, you would be hard pressed to even tell this was influenced by Mass Effect 2.

The guy is not half bad at writing a story, and if he ever designed a game I would probably enjoy it However, these videos should not have been entitled the way they were, they should have been called, "If I could make my own Space Opera, this is what I would do."

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

I have to make an amendment to my earlier post now that I have finished all the parts. While I think the game play changes are cool. If someone were to try and put all of those elements into a game, however, you would have the largest, most complex game ever created. You want the complexity of Sims with the refined game play of a shooter, with the micromanagement of an RPG, and a story complexity that boarders on a Game of Thrones novel. While I would love a game like this, the idea that is game is possible is based less in practical expectations and more in fan boy wish lists.

As for the changes to the story... their is a big difference between tweaking a plot to fix it, and writing your own story borrowing Mass Effect's universe. Smud has written his own story and slapped the names and places from mass effect on it. To illustrate the point, try watching his narrative of the story and change the names of the places, characters. Other than the fact that aliens are kidnapping people, and that you are training for a suicide mission, you would be hard pressed to even tell this was influenced by Mass Effect 2.

The guy is not half bad at writing a story, and if he ever designed a game I would probably enjoy it However, these videos should not have been entitled the way they were, they should have been called, "If I could make my own Space Opera, this is what I would do."

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

[squee913]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

I is working on it as I write actually   I was trying to do a small segment on defining a plot hole, but the term is so convoluted and general, that I gave up and throw the whole thing out of the video. Shame too, since I made a funny pic of Tali in a bikini eating a hot dog for it

[Jackal904]

It's amazing how many naive sheep there are that are so easily mesmerized by smudboy's ability to sound intelligent. Do any of you (including smudboy) understand the limitations of video game development? What smudboy is asking for would double or triple the costs and length of the development of ME2. He is being completely unreasonable. Seriously people, do some simple ****ing research before you start believing any pseudo-intellectual on youtube.

Modifié par Jackal904, 21 mars 2011 - 03:56 .

[KingDan97]

Il Divo wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
Here's the fun bit of irony though. He tried to make games aparently, it's one of the few bits of information about him that he actually said. He also said promptly that he'd failed and that he "wasn't proud of it". So I just have to ask myself who the hell he thinks he is to criticize and disseminate the works of people who have been doing it for much longer than him, and in such a pretentious and elitist way too. That's why I disagree with him, not because he's always wrong, but on principle. Because he thinks he's always right.

Critiquing a game and making a game are two entirely different things. If a director chooses to create a film and make it available to the general public, he is offering his work to public opinion. I don't need to be good at making video games to judge them because I wasn't the one who chose to submit anything in the first place.

Smudboy doesn't need to be good at making video games to be good at taking them apart.

I can understand your point, and on a certain level I can agree with it, but it's not just that he criticizes. It's that he insults their skill on a basic level as writers and storytellers. A skill he aparently holds no aptitude at, despite his self-proclaimed mastery of the elements of. Bioware have been making games for a long time, they know what's good and what's bad about their games and while I agree that they do screw up in their games his aparent refusal to acknowledge any positives about their games and his inability to present his manner in ways other than sounding like a complete douchenugget.

And there's a difference between deconstructing and destorying. Deconstruction requires the knowledge of both what makes it good and bad something Smud's "criticisms" seem to ignore half of the equation of. Destruction on the other hand consists of hitting it till it breaks and claiming that it's a fault. Does the fact that my toaster can't take a hit from a sledgehammer mean it was badly made? No, and the fact that Mass Effect 2's story can't stand up to the scrutiny of a man who likely recorded his playthrough and ran it over after the fact just looking for things to complain about doesn't make it flawed.

Even his suggestions ooze of overanalyzation and tedium that likely consume his entire life. He takes perfectly good ideas(Reward exploration/Different mission types/class based interrupts/Increased inter-squad interaction) and ruins them by suggesting systems that would dissuade even actuaries from persuing the ideas. His entire basis of how the suicide mission could be improved seems to all stem from essentially going back to the beginning of the game and "training" the right people the right way through the entire game. As though their past experiences should make no bearing on whether they can lead a group or be a tech expert.

In addition, as many others have stated, he doesn't even listen to those who deconstruct(note the difference) his points and suggest improvements to his own narcissistic fantasies. Because he can't stand the idea that he might be wrong about anything. Trust me, when he was still here I'd butted heads with him on a multitude of topics. Not dismissing his ideas entirely but pointing out ways in which his arguments were lacking, not constructively, I was fueling my own arguments in his logical falacies but none the less, the holes in his logic were there.

Of course, to him there were no issues. He was right and that was it and that's all he looks at as he goes on his own ideas. "This is fantastic, but I know how to make it better, MAKE IT TAKE LONGER!"

Most of his video's "improvements" whined about the casualization of Mass Effect, and seemed to desire nothing less than the absolute polar opposite of anything even mildly approachable to humans. Tasks only fit for robots is his idea of fun apparently.

Modifié par KingDan97, 21 mars 2011 - 04:00 .

[squee913]

Jackal904 wrote...

It's amazing how many naive sheep there are that are so easily mesmerized by smudboy's ability to sound intelligent. Do any of you (including smudboy) understand the limitations of video game development? What smudboy is asking for would double or triple the costs and length of the development of ME2. He is being completely unreasonable. Seriously people, do some simple ****ing research before you start believing any pseudo-intellectual on youtube.

And this is why, in all 1200 something of my youtube videos, I behave like the happy go lucky retard I really am. It cuts down on confusion

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

I is working on it as I write actually   I was trying to do a small segment on defining a plot hole, but the term is so convoluted and general, that I gave up and throw the whole thing out of the video. Shame too, since I made a funny pic of Tali in a bikini eating a hot dog for it

LoL, perhaps Tali can make an appearance somewhere else... 

[Il Divo]

KingDan97 wrote...

I can understand your point, and on a certain level I can agree with it, but it's not just that he criticizes. It's that he insults their skill on a basic level as writers and storytellers. A skill he aparently holds no aptitude at, despite his self-proclaimed mastery of the elements of. Bioware have been making games for a long time, they know what's good and what's bad about their games and while I agree that they do screw up in their games his aparent refusal to acknowledge any positives about their games and his inability to present his manner in ways other than sounding like a complete douchenugget.

And there's a difference between deconstructing and destorying. Deconstruction requires the knowledge of both what makes it good and bad something Smud's "criticisms" seem to ignore half of the equation of. Destruction on the other hand consists of hitting it till it breaks and claiming that it's a fault. Does the fact that my toaster can't take a hit from a sledgehammer mean it was badly made? No, and the fact that Mass Effect 2's story can't stand up to the scrutiny of a man who likely recorded his playthrough and ran it over after the fact just looking for things to complain about doesn't make it flawed.

Even his suggestions ooze of overanalyzation and tedium that likely consume his entire life. He takes perfectly good ideas(Reward exploration/Different mission types/class based interrupts/Increased inter-squad interaction) and ruins them by suggesting systems that would dissuade even actuaries from persuing the ideas. His entire basis of how the suicide mission could be improved seems to all stem from essentially going back to the beginning of the game and "training" the right people the right way through the entire game. As though their past experiences should make no bearing on whether they can lead a group or be a tech expert.

I...usually don't do this, but I think I'm gonna concede the point. I was caught completely off-guard by paragraph 2, especially the sledgehammer metaphor. Effin good post, I gotta say.

[KingDan97]

Il Divo wrote...

I...usually don't do this, but I think I'm gonna concede the point. I was caught completely off-guard by paragraph 2, especially the sledgehammer metaphor. Effin good post, I gotta say.

I must admit, I'm a little humbled by your acceptance of my point. I expected a debate for the ages. Good show my good man. p.o

[squee913]

Almostfaceman wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

I is working on it as I write actually   I was trying to do a small segment on defining a plot hole, but the term is so convoluted and general, that I gave up and throw the whole thing out of the video. Shame too, since I made a funny pic of Tali in a bikini eating a hot dog for it

LoL, perhaps Tali can make an appearance somewhere else... 

From 5:15 to the end, for a quick Tali fix.

Modifié par squee913, 21 mars 2011 - 04:16 .

[Il Divo]

KingDan97 wrote...

I must admit, I'm a little humbled by your acceptance of my point. I expected a debate for the ages. Good show my good man. p.o

Haha, not this time I'm afraid. Argument for the sake of argument eventually becomes half-hearted. I learned something from this exchange, which is enough.

Perhaps in the future, I'll rise to the occasion.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 21 mars 2011 - 04:20 .

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

I is working on it as I write actually   I was trying to do a small segment on defining a plot hole, but the term is so convoluted and general, that I gave up and throw the whole thing out of the video. Shame too, since I made a funny pic of Tali in a bikini eating a hot dog for it

LoL, perhaps Tali can make an appearance somewhere else... 

From 5:15 to the end, for a quick Tali fix.

I can truly say I'll never look at Tali the same way again.

[squee913]

Almostfaceman wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

squee913 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

I agree, now hurry up and finish your video replies I am enjoying them!

Er, please. :innocent:

I is working on it as I write actually   I was trying to do a small segment on defining a plot hole, but the term is so convoluted and general, that I gave up and throw the whole thing out of the video. Shame too, since I made a funny pic of Tali in a bikini eating a hot dog for it

LoL, perhaps Tali can make an appearance somewhere else... 

From 5:15 to the end, for a quick Tali fix.

I can truly say I'll never look at Tali the same way again.

Just don't tell the Tali thread... they would hunt me down for that last part

[Iakus]

Jackal904 wrote...

It's amazing how many naive sheep there are that are so easily mesmerized by smudboy's ability to sound intelligent. Do any of you (including smudboy) understand the limitations of video game development? What smudboy is asking for would double or triple the costs and length of the development of ME2. He is being completely unreasonable. Seriously people, do some simple ****ing research before you start believing any pseudo-intellectual on youtube.

Pointless insults aside, you are right.  There is no realistic way any game nowadays could hold that much extra material.  He's got an entire trilogy's worth aof material shoehorned into one game.  However, there are parts that  I think would go really well in a game that's ostensibly about "teambuilding" and "loyalty"  and "preparing for a mission into the unknown" Something beyond "hang out in the cargo hold/engineering section/lab/office/AI core until Shep gets around to doing my favor"  Peel away the sometimes overly complex gameplay changes and social simulations there were some really good ideas.

[Almostfaceman]

squee913 wrote...

Just don't tell the Tali thread... they would hunt me down for that last part

Don't worry, unless they ply me with Cherry Pop Tarts they'll never make me talk.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 21 mars 2011 - 05:05 .

[Sable Phoenix]

I liked the videos, for what they were. Some of the ideas were great. Some were good. Most were bad. I think smudboy is right on when he criticizes ME2's story, which was weak, slipshod and riddled with plot holes big enough to fly Sovereign through.  Even just adding a few extra and very specific sentences of dialogue to various points in the game would make the story hang together a whole lot better than it does.  But trying to revamp the entire game and replace everything with your own version is a bit over the top.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 21 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

@KingDan97

I'll bite, if mildly. He does have a positive opinion of Mass Effect and has cited praise for a favor number of the squad in Mass Effect 2. He merely detests the main plot and whilst he most certainly nitpicks at every little thing. Not all his complaints are unreasonable, especially when you factor the big seven still remain present and debated a year subsequent to ME2's release. For reference sake those seven would be...

- Shepard's death/Revival
- The Collectors limited exposure
- Cerberus railroading
- Shepard taking a backseat
- Just about everything on Horizon (including Mordin's out of ass plot device just prior to Horizon)
- Complete lack of squad banter/interaction devoid of Shepard excluding two scenes
- The Human-Reaper

When he goes off on a tangent about the terminology of "Pure Krogan" being an insult to our intelligence, yes my eyes roll. Pure could be a name sake affiliation or a demonstration of Okeer's arrogance, perhaps both. I even excuse the redundant and comical splash of Cerberus logos everywhere since I am indifferent to them. Neglecting those he has valid complaints even citing criticism of the writing. I am far from a literature expert; hell I am just a self educated schmuck with a computer. That does not prevent my ability to criticize what I deem poor writing. Twilight is a multi-billion dollar phenomena but I guarantee I could find fanfiction better than those novels.

With that said, I am of the mindset Mass Effect 2's main plot is less of a "disaster" and more of "lost potential." Much of the existing material could be retained if proper exposition was offered and perhaps an additional level or two. I posted an alternation to the intro where less than two minutes of the cinematics were changed to leave Shepard aboard the Normandy but his fate ambiguous. Easy enough to explain he survived via an escape pod or something to that effect. The scene is otherwise exactly the same. Am I arrogant for having preference to my own idea or others who make similar changes? Perhaps, I have essentially claimed to do a superior job of the intro or believe others could. That does not necessarily conclude I could write circles over BioWare, especially when I have the benefit of hindsight. I am not that boastful nor pretentious.

Where smudboy falters in his criticism is his seeming inability or refusal to shoulder his nitpicking. I concede his dialect, tone and mannerism comes across as condescending; something I mentioned to him once before.

In regards to his video, I wish to clarify whilst I have voiced high praise for the "fixing," this does not insinuate he and I are in complete agreement. The social extravaganza for instance is unique enough to perk my curiosity but something I could do without. What I favor in the core beneath the layers; squad interaction. This can be accomplished any number of ways, and in far less complex a manner. Another would his replacement for loyalty requirements Killing a specific number of YMIRs or being regulated into having certain squad mates accompany one another are exercises in tedium. Coincidently, if given time I am fairly certain I could streamline his additions but retain the fundamentals; trim the fat if you will. I suppose that is partially hypocritical even if I am fairly tempted.

Edit: Yes, this was mildly. I most certainly did not intend for a short post and later contradict myself. >.>

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 21 mars 2011 - 05:32 .