228 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...



By the way why didn't Shep and Tali do their humping in the decontamination chamber.

Oh well..

That would had been weird.

Modifié par Mesina2, 22 mars 2011 - 09:42 .

[squee913]

[quote]Mesina2 wrote...

[quote]Anacronian Stryx wrote...


[/quote]



By the way why didn't Shep and Tali do their humping in the decontamination chamber?

Oh well..
[/quote]

That would had been weird.

[/quote]

sexual copulation in progress... sexual copulation in progress....

[TelexFerra]

Hey you never responded to me in the other thread squee

[UKStory135]

I appreciate the thought that went into the videos, but I like Bioware's ME2 better. The pre-suicide mission is a great idea. Overall, I thought that this made the game too complicated. The characters are less interesting, and I don't see the point of eliminating characters, locations, and missions. The trial would take up too much time, and looking for intel packets would get old fast.

[Khambilo]

I'm watching part 2 right now. His discription of a better Normandy sounds like Mass Effect meets Civilization and the Sims, which is in my opinion, a very, very bad idea.

[Cancer Puppet]

I like the idea of sending injured squad-mates to infirmary after missions, but not so in love with the cooking and sleeping aspects he suggests. Believability is fine, but let's not go all SIMS here. I don't want Garrus to start crying because he pissed himself. Some other ideas were good, but mostly it got a little too complicated.

[Orion1836]

I had some issues with Smudboy's original analysis of Mass Effect 2, but one thing he got right was the disjointed nature of the storyline. Based on what official (and non official) sources have said about the writing process, this makes sense. Having one or two overall writers and then individual dialogue writers for each mission/dialogue set would lead to a patchwork story.

Doing it Smudboy's way would reduce the modularity of the missions (because some would be prerequisites for others), but overall it would give coherence to the plot, which was his whole point. Honestly, I like most of his suggestions (especially the new combined Zaeed/Jacob character), but the problem is that it's too late - the canon has already been established.

Most of his ideas are excellent, though from a developer's standpoint, they sound *very* expensive to implement. Though his overall storyline would be reduced when compared to the original ME2 story, it sounds like there would be HUNDREDS of extra lines of dialogue required. Considering the cost of VAs, I think it would be prohibitively expensive.

Star Ocean 4 had a similar relationship development system within the ship, though it was far simpler than what Smudboy suggests. They got around the dialogue limitations by having about half of the interactions be text-based instead of voiced. I don't know if/how ME could pull that off, but I think for something of this scale, one would have to assume that you can't use VAs for all of it. That said, Bioware *has* done complex cause-and-event trees like Smudboy's ideas before (Hordes of the Underdark), it's just that the development costs were limited to text alone.

If anything, I think BioWare should take note of Smudboy's ideas when it comes to Mass Effect 3. They have (I would assume) a large budget and one last chance to "get it right." Would it be a little awkward to smooth over plotholes and continuity from 1 all the way to 3? A little bit, but 3 gives them a chance at a fresh start.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Orion1836 wrote...

Most of his ideas are excellent, though from a developer's standpoint, they sound *very* expensive to implement. Though his overall storyline would be reduced when compared to the original ME2 story, it sounds like there would be HUNDREDS of extra lines of dialogue required. Considering the cost of VAs, I think it would be prohibitively expensive.

This is an incorrect assumption. Video game voice actors are in fact typically underpaid, earning an estimated salary below the $50,000 dollar mark. Celebrity voice actors would command slightly more although how much is debatable. At most the probability would be an increase around $100,000 total. For the average individual that may be an elaborate sum but Mass Effect 2 I would approximate at a 50-60 million dollar venture. For BioWare, that is child's play.

We would also have to factor in the reduction in cost for the replaced characters in Grunt, Thane, Kasumi, Jacob, Jack and the reduced roles of Garrus and Tali. Frankly, it could well have washed out. Of course, this is specific to his plot not the maraud of social activities.

[squee913]

TelexFerra wrote...

Hey you never responded to me in the other thread squee

I didn't??? sorry, I must have missed it... I wil go look for it 

[TelexFerra]

Did you find it?

[100k]

Personally, I think the idea of some sort of "ship life", where characters lounge and talk about philosophy, brag about past missions, argue about cultural differences, get into fights, have comedic moments, etc etc would be EXCELLENT for ME3.

It would have to be completely optional, but it would make the ship feel more alive. For instance, you would click an option to activate "Ship Life", and then a cutscene involving Thane and Garrus could pop up. They would discuss the injustices in the galaxy, and (depending on loyalty levels), decide to team up once the reaper threat is dealt with. This creates great backstory!

Or perhaps Jack, Zaeed, and Grunt brag about the good fights they got into, and Shepard has the option to join in with the bragging (for renegade points), or tell them that killing isn't nearly as enjoyable as they make it out to be (for paragon points).

Maybe Samara and Legion discuss the ethics of killing and justice--Legion being confused about how Samara's black and white code brings about actual justice instead of superficial justice. Shepard could engage in the conversation, and in so doing, learn more about both the culture of the geth, and the culture of the Justicars.

I honestly don't see why people think that this would be "too complex" and more like the sims. As it stands, ME2's cast just stands in their areas of the ship, and wait for Shepard to talk to them. Why wouldn't you want more squad interaction? Why can't Jack and Samara teach each other things about biotics that would both strengthen their relationship, and their biotic abilities in game play? Why can't Zaeed teach Grunt about mistakes Krogan make in combat, so that Grunt will learn from them? Why can't Thane teach Kasumi advanced infiltration skills?

You guys complain that this would be complicated, but I don't think that argument holds up very well when 3/4ths of this forum wants ME to have even more RPG elements to it.

[TelexFerra]

I agree with you. As much as I like ME2, it feels a bit like the Truman Show.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

100k wrote...

Personally, I think the idea of some sort of "ship life", where characters lounge and talk about philosophy, brag about past missions, argue about cultural differences, get into fights, have comedic moments, etc etc would be EXCELLENT for ME3.

It would have to be completely optional, but it would make the ship feel more alive. For instance, you would click an option to activate "Ship Life", and then a cutscene involving Thane and Garrus could pop up. They would discuss the injustices in the galaxy, and (depending on loyalty levels), decide to team up once the reaper threat is dealt with. This creates great backstory!

Or perhaps Jack, Zaeed, and Grunt brag about the good fights they got into, and Shepard has the option to join in with the bragging (for renegade points), or tell them that killing isn't nearly as enjoyable as they make it out to be (for paragon points).

Maybe Samara and Legion discuss the ethics of killing and justice--Legion being confused about how Samara's black and white code brings about actual justice instead of superficial justice. Shepard could engage in the conversation, and in so doing, learn more about both the culture of the geth, and the culture of the Justicars.

I honestly don't see why people think that this would be "too complex" and more like the sims. As it stands, ME2's cast just stands in their areas of the ship, and wait for Shepard to talk to them. Why wouldn't you want more squad interaction? Why can't Jack and Samara teach each other things about biotics that would both strengthen their relationship, and their biotic abilities in game play? Why can't Zaeed teach Grunt about mistakes Krogan make in combat, so that Grunt will learn from them? Why can't Thane teach Kasumi advanced infiltration skills?

You guys complain that this would be complicated, but I don't think that argument holds up very well when 3/4ths of this forum wants ME to have even more RPG elements to it.

I like some of this, but I have a problem with the level of customization that the video implies. If it's just flavor, fine. If it's a very very simple system (there are one or two "level up" scenes for each character that grant some benefit and are easy to activate, and the rest of them are just character development) fine.

The primary issue I see is the required "cutscene" coding for these. Now, I don't know how easy or hard it is within Bioware's toolset, but making character's mannerisms during conversations with each other look natural takes a lot of time, and a skilled animator.

There are already a huge number of "bonus dialogues" you can get if you take certain character to certain areas. A famous one in ME2 is that if you take Garrus and Tali to the citadel, they will reminisce about elevator rides. (For anyone who needs a refresher on ME1's elevator chats, there's a nicely cut one here). These are easier to do than full-on, Scene scenes because you don't need an animator. The characters can just do a default idle/talk/headturn animation and, since we're not zoomed in, it all works out. I'd be all for adding these kinds of overheard bonus dialogues to the ship, and having crew members move around a bit more. (That said, scripting characters wandering around can be a bit of a pain in some circumstances... designing a system that would let you find everyone and ensure nobody got stuck in pathing would probably take a few days).

Adding actual scenes, like the Miranda/Jack or Tali/Legion ones, even noninteractive ones, would be more labor-intensive, as closeups and emotions would require better animation. Mass effect does a pretty darn good job with this, which is why I expect it takes them a lot of time to do them. That's the main resource issue that concerns me.

Most games have more dialogue written than is ever implemented, so the text composition itself is not a problem. Bioware is more wiling to shell out for VO than most companies, so that limitation is gone. It all comes down to the difficulty of systems design and animation, I think.

[coolair74]

Please god do not bring back the dumb dumb dumb armor crap from ME1. Its was too much..way too much. I spent more time trying to figure out the best loadouts instead of concentrating on the story.

I think this Smudboy is over-analitical and doesnt seem to understand this isnt a standard RPG. The story telling is what is important here.

I didnt like the idea on the helmets , I support inviso helms!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I do want the ability to turn my helmet on and off when I want back. (I'm fine when there are missions where logically you have to have it on, but otherwise, I want that button back)

When I'm dealing with people, I like them to see my face. Especially when I'm meeting up with old friends again. Sometimes though, I want to look like I am about to kick your butt and I don't want to risk any of your blood getting on me: then it's helmet time.

I also don't understand why he doesn't want N7 or Cerberus logos on anything. He never explains it.

I DO like the "recruit a bunch of characters, some of whom are noncombat" games. I loved that game when it was called SUIKODEN. That's a mixture of sarcasm and sincerity. Don't let them touch, it may destroy the internet.

[TelexFerra]

I think he means that the lgoo shouldn't be forced on anyone as it limits RPing.

If I were playing a Shepard who said kthxbai to Cerberus after leaving Lazarus, then why would I flaunt their logo everywhere.

[IggyD]

iakus wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

It's amazing how many naive sheep there are that are so easily mesmerized by smudboy's ability to sound intelligent. Do any of you (including smudboy) understand the limitations of video game development? What smudboy is asking for would double or triple the costs and length of the development of ME2. He is being completely unreasonable. Seriously people, do some simple ****ing research before you start believing any pseudo-intellectual on youtube.

Pointless insults aside, you are right.  There is no realistic way any game nowadays could hold that much extra material.  He's got an entire trilogy's worth aof material shoehorned into one game.  However, there are parts that  I think would go really well in a game that's ostensibly about "teambuilding" and "loyalty"  and "preparing for a mission into the unknown" Something beyond "hang out in the cargo hold/engineering section/lab/office/AI core until Shep gets around to doing my favor"  Peel away the sometimes overly complex gameplay changes and social simulations there were some really good ideas.

Smudboy's suggestions may seem overwhelming in their numbers and
their asset requirements, but a dare say that it's partially because he
presents them all at once. Fairly complex games like RPGs, RTSs and TBSs
have many features and controls. Cram those along every possible story
outcomes in an hour long video, and the whole thing becomes...well, mentally
indigestible.

It may sound overly complicated and improbable to implement at low enough costs, but there ARE games that DO involve managing a roster to unlock perks (items, weapons, etc). Assassin's Creed Brotherhood is one, and the very best is Metal Gear: Peace Walker. In between missions (of which there were many), Solid Snake could send out his soldiers in conflict zone sfor cash and XP, and/or assign them to various tasks, which include Weapon smithing, Intel Gathering (unlocks gadgets), Healthcare (treating injured soldiers and making sure they don't get sick), and yes, EVEN COOKING (which keeps morale up). And this was done for the PSP, not for the PC, which WOULD have an audience that would actually welcome that kind of management. Hell, you could even gather parts to build your very own BIPEDAL WALKING TANK. How cool is THAT?



As you can see, this was made fairly easy thanks to the inclusion of a very effective and efficient menu system, with outstanding issues, battle outcomes and miscellanious intel being fed to you THROUGH TEXT (Menu systems are in my opinion, that one Black Beast that Bioware has been struggling with since the very beginning). Kojima also did not feel the need to have every new nook and cranny of Mother Base (or even its crew) rendered for the sake of immersion, which is something Bioware might have felt obligated to do (or not.). This allowed Kojima to focus on the missions while having and engaging management system that not only made you feel like you were in charge of a PMC, but also added a great deal of depth to an excellent Stealth-based 3rd person Shooter.

[CroGamer002]

Oh you have to be f*cking kidding me.

[MrDizazta]

My god who the hell resurrected this damn thread.

[Bogsnot1]

Ahh, yes, Smudboy. The cretinous individual whose life is so lame, it gets its jollies picking out the most minute fault or cut-content induced bug and screaming "PLOTHOLE!". We have dismissed its claims.

[100k]

Wow. This really got resurrected?

[BentOrgy]

Mesina2 wrote...

Oh you have to be f*cking kidding me.

Mario Shep gonna have to choke a ****?!

[IggyD]

Well it wasn't locked.

[Bogsnot1]

It didnt have to be locked. It was left to rot and die of its own accord, until you decided to perform sadism, beastiality and necrophilia by flogging this dead horse of a thread.

[IggyD]

I didn't know i was that kinky

Besides, I hail from the relicnews forums. We resurrect month-old threads all the time, there.

Modifié par IggyD, 20 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .