120 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I think, someone needs to go back to ME1 and play through the "UNC: Negotiation" mission. It'll help them realize that Hackett is, in fact, an uber-renegade (as any man in his position should be), and just as manipulative as TIM, and generally wake up. Maybe it will then come as less of a surprize when Hackett arrests them in the end of the Arrival DLC.

Been there, done that.  Shepard's renegade attitude obviously offends Hackett since he rubs it in Shepards' face.

Shepard: You used me!
Hackett: Did you think you're the only one who can bend the rules?

Hackett is obviously no full-blown Renegade, he requests several times in several missions that you save human lives if at all possible and he smooches your butt when you do Paragon stuff.  He's an Admiral for Christ's sake.  In a modern military, you can't be flyin' solo and be an Admiral.  You'll have shown repeatedly that you're a team player who works within the rules and is politically savvy. Like Jacob says, the Alliance is always on the lookout for people who rock the boat.  The renegade is clearly modeled after someone like Riddick in the Pitch Black series - a loner who works with people only when he has to, a person with little patience who gets the job done but doesn't make friends along the way.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Does TIM treat Shepard like sh*t? Nope. "You're unique," "You're a natural leader," "I have full confidence your abilities," "I envy you..." and then sends him to places that need to be smashed. Just like Hackett, really.

Have you never played as a paragon in ME2?

scyphozoa wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett and TIM saw eye to eye on some things. They are approximately the same age, saw the First Contact war first hand and both served the Alliance. I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett privately supports Cerberus. Cerberus was a black-ops Alliance team, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett even had his fingers in a few Cerberus pies.

I sincerely doubt it. Cerberus operatives are ruthless renegades, and Hackett finds these types disguisting.

Almostfaceman wrote...
 The renegade is clearly modeled after someone like Riddick in the Pitch Black series - a loner who works with people only when he has to,

I fully agreed with your post until this.
Picking a renegade option when talking to TIM, mostly ends up as Shepard kissing his ass,imho.

Modifié par Phaedon, 19 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Chewin]

He's Hackett. He can do what he wants, when he wants and make it look awesome

[Phaedon]

That too.

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
 The renegade is clearly modeled after someone like Riddick in the Pitch Black series - a loner who works with people only when he has to,

I agreed with your post until this.
Picking a renegade option when talking to TIM, mostly ends up as Shepard kissing his ass.

Not really, the Renegade is usually very rude when talking to TIM. The Renegade dialogue option after keeping the Collector Base is a good example.

Modifié par Bad King, 19 mars 2011 - 10:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Does TIM treat Shepard like sh*t? Nope. "You're unique," "You're a natural leader," "I have full confidence your abilities," "I envy you..." and then sends him to places that need to be smashed. Just like Hackett, really.

Have you never played as a paragon in ME2?

You bet.

Phaedon wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett and TIM saw eye to eye on some things. They are approximately the same age, saw the First Contact war first hand and both served the Alliance. I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett privately supports Cerberus. Cerberus was a black-ops Alliance team, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hackett even had his fingers in a few Cerberus pies.

I sincerely doubt it. Cerberus operatives are ruthless renegades, and Hackett finds these types disguisting.

Lol. In ME1 I shot Toombs and Hackett said something like "Pity that poor dumb sucker didn't make it, but kudos for saving the doctor, Shepard!" Same with Major Kyle: "All dead? That was kinda coming to them, wasn't it?"

Phaedon wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
 The renegade is clearly modeled after someone like Riddick in the Pitch Black series - a loner who works with people only when he has to,

I agreed with your post until this.
Picking a renegade option when talking to TIM, mostly ends up as Shepard kissing his ass.

Not true.

[CroGamer002]

Bad King wrote...

After you finish the mission he tells you that he's glad you killed Darius but claims that he could not officially condone you killing him.

Check here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_The_Negotiation

And proves for him to be Renegade how?
That guy is a giant douche and a drug dealer.
Who wouldn't be glad?


Also I have a counter mission.

You know the mission where there are bunch of drugged scientist and Biotic terrorists?
Yeah, he could have easily send his marines and in crossfire kill of many scientist and he doesn't do anyway and asks Shepard who is too busy hunting Saren to save them.

[Bad King]

Mesina2 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

After you finish the mission he tells you that he's glad you killed Darius but claims that he could not officially condone you killing him.

Check here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_The_Negotiation

And proves for him to be Renegade how?
That guy is a giant douche and a drug dealer.
Who wouldn't be glad?


Also I have a counter mission.

You know the mission where there are bunch of drugged scientist and Biotic terrorists?
Yeah, he could have easily send his marines and in crossfire kill of many scientist and he doesn't do anyway and asks Shepard who is too busy hunting Saren to save them.

He was a douche yes, but the Alliance had a deal going with him (after their corrupt dealings with him during the conflict with the Batarians). So the Alliance was pretty much stabbing him in the back secretly while making it look like Shepard screwed up the negotiation.

But I think you haven't read my post properly. I never said that Hackett is a complete Renegade, just that he's a Paragon with renegade streaks and so not the pure goody two shoes Paragon that a lot of people claim

[CroGamer002]

Bad King wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

After you finish the mission he tells you that he's glad you killed Darius but claims that he could not officially condone you killing him.

Check here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_The_Negotiation

And proves for him to be Renegade how?
That guy is a giant douche and a drug dealer.
Who wouldn't be glad?


Also I have a counter mission.

You know the mission where there are bunch of drugged scientist and Biotic terrorists?
Yeah, he could have easily send his marines and in crossfire kill of many scientist and he doesn't do anyway and asks Shepard who is too busy hunting Saren to save them.

He was a douche yes, but the Alliance had a deal going with him (after their corrupt dealings with him during the conflict with the Batarians). So the Alliance was pretty much stabbing him in the back secretly while making it look like Shepard screwed up the negotiation.

But I think you haven't read my post properly. I never said that Hackett is a complete Renegade, just that he's a Paragon with renegade streaks and so not the pure goody two shoes Paragon that a lot of people claim

Sorry about that one, misplaced you with ZULU, somehow.

And he is definitely Paragade.


And for backstabbing that douche?
Who wouldn't get rid of that big mistake?

But still Hackett wanted a compromise.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Lol. In ME1 I shot Toombs and Hackett said something like "Pity that poor dumb sucker didn't make it, but kudos for saving the doctor, Shepard!" Same with Major Kyle: "All dead? That was kinda coming to them, wasn't it?"

I reviewed your report on the situation, Commander. You did well to save the doctor. I suppose we'll never know what set Toombs off.

Not true.

I have made a full renegade playthrough already.

Modifié par Phaedon, 19 mars 2011 - 10:21 .

[Phaedon]

Bad King wrote...
He was a douche yes, but the Alliance had a deal going with him (after their corrupt dealings with him during the conflict with the Batarians). So the Alliance was pretty much stabbing him in the back secretly while making it look like Shepard screwed up the negotiation. 

I think you are misinterpreting the situation. He was a pirate, and the Alliance wanted to negotiate with him. Letting the pirate live free unpunished is not paragon, even though this form of punishment is extreme.

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

Bad King wrote...
He was a douche yes, but the Alliance had a deal going with him (after their corrupt dealings with him during the conflict with the Batarians). So the Alliance was pretty much stabbing him in the back secretly while making it look like Shepard screwed up the negotiation. 

I think you are misinterpreting the situation. He was a pirate, and the Alliance wanted to negotiate with him. Letting the pirate live free unpunished is not paragon, even though this form of punishment is extreme.

Yes, he was a pirate, but the Alliance had a deal with him. Knowing that openly sending troops to eliminate Darius would make the Alliance appear hypocritical and selfish, Hackett tried to eliminate him while making it look like a negotiation that tragically went wrong by sending Renegade Shep (Hackett was confident he would kill Darius).

[Phaedon]

As I said, he uses Renegade Shepard as a tool.

The Alliance did want to make a deal with him, Now, I think that Hackett thought that making a deal with a criminal was retarded and/or against his principles. Sending troops would probably cause a problem to Hackett himself (he might be a top ranking officer, but he can be hold accountable for his actions), so he just has Shepard kill Darius. Not only does the deal not happen with Hackett not suffering any negative consequences, but Darius is also punished.

Although the manner of punishment is hardly paragon, it looks like it's the only way.

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

As I said, he uses Renegade Shepard as a tool.

The Alliance did want to make a deal with him, Now, I think that Hackett thought that making a deal with a criminal was retarded and/or against his principles. Sending troops would probably cause a problem to Hackett himself (he might be a top ranking officer, but he can be hold accountable for his actions), so he just has Shepard kill Darius. Not only does the deal not happen with Hackett not suffering any negative consequences, but Darius is also punished.

Although the manner of punishment is hardly paragon, it looks like it's the only way.

Yeah, Paragadish choice.

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

As I said, he uses Renegade Shepard as a tool.

The Alliance did want to make a deal with him, Now, I think that Hackett thought that making a deal with a criminal was retarded and/or against his principles. Sending troops would probably cause a problem to Hackett himself (he might be a top ranking officer, but he can be hold accountable for his actions), so he just has Shepard kill Darius. Not only does the deal not happen with Hackett not suffering any negative consequences, but Darius is also punished.

Although the manner of punishment is hardly paragon, it looks like it's the only way.

Note that the Alliance only renege on the deal because they want the element zero that Darius controls. The attack on Darius's base at Nonuel was not done for moral reasons, but because they were greedy for resources.

Modifié par Bad King, 19 mars 2011 - 10:39 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lol. In ME1 I shot Toombs and Hackett said something like "Pity that poor dumb sucker didn't make it, but kudos for saving the doctor, Shepard!" Same with Major Kyle: "All dead? That was kinda coming to them, wasn't it?"

I reviewed your report on the situation, Commander. You did well to save the doctor. I suppose we'll never know what set Toombs off.

So... where is the promised disgust?

Phaedon wrote...

Not true.

I have made a full renegade playthrough already.

And?

Actually if you've discovered some ways to kiss TIM's ass, I can't wait for you to share.

[Phaedon]

Bad King wrote...
Note that the Alliance only renege on the deal because they want the element zero that Darius controls. The attack on Darius's base at Nonuel was not done for moral reasons, but because they were greedy for resources.

Attack? I haven't played ME1 for a while, but I don't remember one. 
Well, the wiki says that he "is extremely arrogant and is taking full advantage of his base's position on Nonuel—a secondary source of element zero—to extort from the Alliance."
And that Hackett sends Shepard to negotiate with him, knowing how it will end.

No mention of an attack there.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
So... where is the promised disgust?

Promised disgust? You didn't pick a renegade conversation option while talking to Hackett, that's just the message that he sends you.

Phaedon wrote...
And?

Actually if you've discovered some ways to kiss TIM's ass, I can't wait for you to share.

Sure.

Wait for conversation with TIM,
Push your mouse down for a few inches, press the big left button.

[Bad King]

Phaedon wrote...

Bad King wrote...
Note that the Alliance only renege on the deal because they want the element zero that Darius controls. The attack on Darius's base at Nonuel was not done for moral reasons, but because they were greedy for resources.

Attack? I haven't played ME1 for a while, but I don't remember one. 
Well, the wiki says that he "is extremely arrogant and is taking full advantage of his base's position on Nonuel—a secondary source of element zero—to extort from the Alliance."
And that Hackett sends Shepard to negotiate with him, knowing how it will end.

No mention of an attack there.

Sending a trigger happy renegade who kills without hesitation instead of proper negotiators proves that the Alliance wanted to kill Darius and his cronies instead of negotiating. Renegade Shep killing everyone=attack.

Modifié par Bad King, 19 mars 2011 - 10:46 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Bad King wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

As I said, he uses Renegade Shepard as a tool.

The Alliance did want to make a deal with him, Now, I think that Hackett thought that making a deal with a criminal was retarded and/or against his principles. Sending troops would probably cause a problem to Hackett himself (he might be a top ranking officer, but he can be hold accountable for his actions), so he just has Shepard kill Darius. Not only does the deal not happen with Hackett not suffering any negative consequences, but Darius is also punished.

Although the manner of punishment is hardly paragon, it looks like it's the only way.

Note that the Alliance only renege on the deal because they want the element zero that Darius controls. The attack on Darius's base at Nonuel was not done for moral reasons, but because they were greedy for resources.

Yep. It's pretty much the story of Saddam and the NeoCon America. They supported him to counterbalance Iran in the region, and to dump the oil prices to screw up the Soviet Union. Then the Soviet Union got screwed and Saddam got greedy, attacked Kuwait and whatnot. So they squashed him but not completely. Kept him around for "just in case". Finally he outlived his usefulness, got toppled and hanged.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 mars 2011 - 10:53 .

[Phaedon]

Bad King wrote...
Sending a trigger happy renegade who kills without hesitation instead of proper negotiators proves that the Alliance wanted to kill Darius and his cronies instead of negotiating. Renegade Shep killing everyone=attack.

But, negotiating with Darius -and this includes letting him free unpunished and considerably wealthier- is not paragon.

Send the bloodthirsty Spectre in, and the situation is resolved without rewarding Darius for his actions.

[Phaedon]

Yep. It's pretty much the story of Saddam and the NeoCon America. They supported him to counterbalance Iran in the region, and to sabotage the oil prices to screw up the Soviet Union. Then the Soviet Union got screwed and Saddam got greedy, attacked Kuwait and whatnot. So they squashed him but not completely. Kept him around for "just in case". Finally he outlived his usefulness, got toppled and hanged.

But the Alliance never had a deal with Sa-um Darius, that's the whole point of negotiating in the first place.

Modifié par Phaedon, 19 mars 2011 - 10:53 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So... where is the promised disgust?

Promised disgust? You didn't pick a renegade conversation option while talking to Hackett, that's just the message that he sends you.

You said Hackett is disgusted with ruthless renegade operatives. I'm having trouble with how you have come to this conclusion. Because most of the time he sounded either indifferent or supportive of that course of action.

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And?
Actually if you've discovered some ways to kiss TIM's ass, I can't wait for you to share.

Sure.

Wait for conversation with TIM,
Push your mouse down for a few inches, press the big left button.

So what happens exactly? You got a linky? I'd like to watch that hardcore stuff you keep talking about, ' cause I seem to have sort of missed it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Yep. It's pretty much the story of Saddam and the NeoCon America. They supported him to counterbalance Iran in the region, and to sabotage the oil prices to screw up the Soviet Union. Then the Soviet Union got screwed and Saddam got greedy, attacked Kuwait and whatnot. So they squashed him but not completely. Kept him around for "just in case". Finally he outlived his usefulness, got toppled and hanged.

But the Alliance never had a deal with Sa-um Darius, that's the whole point of negotiating in the first place.

So, supplying arms to somebody isn't now counted as having a deal? Interesting. I guess the Alliance paid tribute to Darrius then...