155 réponses à ce sujet

[Obro]

v_ware wrote...

Dear lord.

Why are you so bent on categorizing this game?

All that matters: wether you enjoy it or not.

I did not enjoy it in fact.I found it a waste of time.And before the game came out I thought that this is going to be the best RPG ever.

I play RPG games for the story.Now some would say that one story cant satisfy everyone and they are right.
However I can't believe that DA2 story satisfied anyone sane. I mean it's just a big ass cliffhanger leading into DLC. With bunch of thigs left unfinished.I also didn't like the freedom of "choice" but I already stated that in the OP.

[Teddie Sage]

Rake21 wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

Rake21 wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

This feels a lot like FFXIII, but atleast in FFXIII you got to travel to different places.

Except where FFXIII was a piece of ****, this is actually fun with charecters that you don't want to throw off a cliff (Anders excluded)

Speak for yourself. Some people here, as rare as they are, enjoyed FF13.

True enough, I guess.  And because I don't want to get into an arguement with those people, I will rescend my previous statement (however true it is)

Truth is only real for the one stating an opinion.

[AkiKishi]

STARSBarry wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

In a JRPG, I typically have no control over anything about my character: looks, dialogue, romance. I'm simply the means by which the characters engage in combat.

No, I do not think Dragon Age 2 is a JRPG. Some of these criticisms are getting extremely ridiculous.

you havent played many recent JRPG's then..... after all japan has been making the visual novel for years... the two go hand in hand these days, good example pick up ar tonelico 3 on PS3, thats where JRPG's are headed, In that respect no dragon age 2 is not a JRPG.... since dragon age 2 has alot less choice..... oh burn but im not joking mana khemia, persona hell even white knight chronicles, JRPG's arnt as closed as people think, just the main stream ones are.

Dragon age 2 is definatly a western RPG, rather than gameplay mechanics and choices, what really makes the diffrence in these RPG's is the world design, the character dialoge etc, not that fact hawk is flaling around im combat likes hes from dynasty warriors, or that the plot is as regid and choiceless as final fantasy XIII

go back and really think hard about the sort of stuff you did in games like Baldars Gate is it really so diffrence? Yes it is theres alot less choice... and that my friends is where dragon age 2 fails hands down, but its not a JRPG no where near..... they have to much choice these days

The design of DA reminded me of Mana-Khemia although I'd say Mana-Khemia did the time passing thing much better.

[Thozi]

Rake21 wrote...

Obro wrote...

Oh and I forgot one more thing...archers.

How come they just pull out a knife when they got pinned down in melee and don't loose any DPS? Remember before when we had to get a feat that makes us better when the enemy closes in?

Because there's no **** in the entire world who would let an archer repeatedly shoot them in the face at point blank range.  They'd just cut the bow out of their hand.  The knife coming out makes alot more sense.

On the original post, I won't get into an argument on the definition of an RPG, but I will disagree with one point.  I did feel like I made Hawke who he was as a person depending on my choeces.

What he means is that the character keeps doing as much damage with the knife as he would with a bow.

[STARSBarry]

Mana-Khemia also had alot more possible endings

[Malja]

Obro wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Dear lord.

Why are you so bent on categorizing this game?

All that matters: wether you enjoy it or not.

I did not enjoy it in fact.I found it a waste of time.And before the game came out I thought that this is going to be the best RPG ever.

I play RPG games for the story.Now some would say that one story cant satisfy everyone and they are right.
However I can't believe that DA2 story satisfied anyone sane. I mean it's just a big ass cliffhanger leading into DLC. With bunch of thigs left unfinished.I also didn't like the freedom of "choice" but I already stated that in the OP.

Is this where I should make claims to insanity?

[Cobrawar]

DA 2 is a JRPG. I totally agree.

[Arppis]

So Baldur's Gate is JRPG too? I don't remember the game having any proper choices to be made in it. It's actualy more linear than DA2 is.

[EccentricSage]

OK, I know this is a no-spoilers area, so I can't ask for examples. So can some of you tell me in your in-game experience, how often and how important your dialogue choices are to changing the course of events and relationships? I'm not asking for exact numbers, or trying to be an ass. I just am honestly confused regarding this aspect of the game mechanics and how far personal choice goes in 2 in comparison to Origins.

How often do your dialogue choices damage or strengthen in a meaningful way, your relationship with a companion? For example, in Origins, you get disapproval for certain dialogue choices, which sets you back in regards to getting to know a character, and can even damage their loyalty. In some cases, they might even turn on you, or else leave. Does dialogue in 2 have this kind of real consequence?

How often do the dialogue choices you make exclude you from a possible quest?

How often do your dialogue choices and actions change the course of an event? For example, are you given situations where you have to choose weather to talk your way out (persuade or intimidation checks) vs. fighting or giving up, or have to make a moral decision that effects the fates of others in relation to your own agenda?

Modifié par EccentricSage, 19 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[S_I_a_D]

Malja wrote...

Obro wrote...

I did not enjoy it in fact.I found it a waste of time.And before the game came out I thought that this is going to be the best RPG ever.

I play RPG games for the story.Now some would say that one story cant satisfy everyone and they are right.
However I can't believe that DA2 story satisfied anyone sane. I mean it's just a big ass cliffhanger leading into DLC. With bunch of thigs left unfinished.I also didn't like the freedom of "choice" but I already stated that in the OP.

Is this where I should make claims to insanity?

You know that Einstein quote? The one that says "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"?

Well, some of us are not insane, so we did what we had done over and over in the past (i.e. play a Bioware game) and expected the same result (i.e. an enjoyable RPG experience).
The fact that DA2 was anything but that took some time to finally sink in.

Personally, I couldn't believe "this" was all there was to the game. Right until the credits started rolling I couldn't believe it.
That's because I'm sane. Maybe a little on the slow side, but sane.

Modifié par S_I_a_D, 19 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Ad Dugg]

Jewel of a Role Play Game.

Couldn't agre more.

[STARSBarry]

Brodyaha wrote...

You can change the course of events in the DA2 universe. The ending of DA2 also depends on your choices.

Those choices are confined within a story, yes, but they are still choices.

Play JRPGs such as Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata, and Enchanted Arms, and then tell me how much choice they have compared to DA2. It's quite a marked difference.

HELLO I am going to use a selection of INCREDIBLY LINEAR JRPG's to base my argument and ignore a rather large list of other NONE LINEAR JRPG's in which to consolidate my point...

[Edli]

What makes it look like a jrpg?

A skinny guy holding a big sword and swinging it like it's a dagger and the combat animations in general.

The limitation in equipment customization for your companions. In FFXIII you could equip only a weapon and something else. DA2 is a lot closer to that. Jrpgs usually do not allow for the characters to change appearance unlike wrpgs where you would equip all kind of stuff from head, torso, legs and hands.

[S_I_a_D]

EccentricSage wrote...

How often do your dialogue choices damage or strengthen in a meaningful way, your relationship with a companion? For example, in Origins, you get disapproval for certain dialogue choices, which sets you back in regards to getting to know a character, and can even damage their loyalty. In some cases, they might even turn on you, or else leave. Does dialogue in 2 have this kind of real consequence?

How often do the dialogue choices you make exclude you from a possible quest?

How often do your dialogue choices and actions change the course of an event? For example, are you given situations where you have to choose weather to talk your way out (persuade or intimidation checks) vs. fighting or giving up, or have to make a moral decision that effects the fates of others in relation to your own agenda?

In order of your questions:

Not too rare, I admit.

Never.

Never, basically.
Perfect example (I don't consider it a spoiler because it was in the demo):  Choose the belligerent option when Isabela confronts those gangsters in the Chantry and she throws a dagger. A fight breaks out. Try to be diplomatic and she throws the dagger anyway.

[CaimDark]

I still love JRPGs, and I think "freedom" and "non-linearity" are highly overrated in today's games, and often come at the cost of story, character and narrative. I also think the Bioware guy who said Final Fantasy is not an RPG was just being arrogant and letting Bioware's sucess get to his head.

That being said, I also love wrpgs, and though Dragon Age 2 is a lot more linear than expected and most of the decisions are really kind of pointless (including the big decision at the end), it does not feel like a JRPG at all. Seriously, maybe that's just me, but I can't imagine anyone who actually played any JRPG feeling that DA2 looks like one.

[Il Divo]

STARSBarry wrote...

HELLO I am going to use a selection of INCREDIBLY LINEAR JRPG's to base my argument and ignore a rather large list of other NONE LINEAR JRPG's in which to consolidate my point...

I'm actually curious then how you would define JRPGs, since your response to my post was pretty vague on that front. The most common (and popular) examples of JRPGs I've seen listed are the Final Fantasy series. I'm interested in your position.

And with regards to your Baldur's Gate comment, I'd say DA2 probably had more choice. The presentation was also much better.

[Obro]

Edli wrote...

What makes it look like a jrpg?

A skinny guy holding a big sword and swinging it like it's a dagger and the combat animations in general.

The limitation in equipment customization for your companions. In FFXIII you could equip only a weapon and something else. DA2 is a lot closer to that. Jrpgs usually do not allow for the characters to change appearance unlike wrpgs where you would equip all kind of stuff from head, torso, legs and hands.

Fenris? Yeah he was a ....one whiny ass character. His pain is to DEEP for me to understand.As for "The limitation in equipment customization for your companions" thats just so there can be DLC.

[thegreateski]

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 mars 2011 - 10:24 .

[STARSBarry]

im on the grounds of DA2 aint a JRPG, but not on grounds of playstyle or lack of impact of your choices, DA2 is a WRPG due to its dialog and world setting, its type of plot is much more down to earth, sure it causes something huge, however you dont resolve that you just light the fuse, JRPG's tend to be ENTIRE WORLD IS GOING TO EXSPLODE BECOUSE SOME BROODING EMO GO SAVE IT, however they have now been massivly opening up, the problem is with final fantasy is its not a NEW IP you exspect a certain something from final fantasy and they really cant change to much from that formula, although they have managed to make each final fantasy of the main series diffrent from the other in quite incredible ways you will see the overall development of the story, plot, settings, characters is the same thats due to it being Final Fantasy.... and really using that classify all JRPG's is a bit...... awfull its like saying all western RPG's should follow the same archtype and alot do... but theres still plenty that dont

I would classify a JRPG as any RPG coming from Japan.... can anyone name me one that has come from Japan that dousent feel like a JRPG even with none linear elements, multiple endings and an open plot? example Nier..... its from Japan, they tried to get a western style.... but its most definatly japanese.... same with Demon Souls

then take biowares Jade empire.... does that feel like a JRPG? even though it borrows mythology and plots from the asian region?

DA2 is not a JRPG, but its not down to the things like lack cause and effect its down to the story telling and the overall feel of the game.... although if they made anders the main bad guy.... it might of had enough big brooding emo to get there

[Cobrawar]

Arppis wrote...

So Baldur's Gate is JRPG too? I don't remember the game having any proper choices to be made in it. It's actualy more linear than DA2 is.

 DA2 isnt anywhere near baulder gate so just stop trying to make comparisons. In baulders gate 2 they didnt redesign the art and give people a  hack and slash combat system.

They managed to make DA2 more linear then DAO

Modifié par Cobrawar, 19 mars 2011 - 10:33 .

[Eiliestl]

No White knight is a JRPG , DA2 is far from that. Your thread fails.

[Harmless Crunch]

- Are there any whiny 10 year olds with pink spiky hair ?
- Incredibly feminine 8 year old school girls ?
- A plot that makes absolutely no sense ?
How many JRPGs do you know that have themes of religious zealots,oppression and more?

[Il Divo]

STARSBarry wrote...

im on the grounds of DA2 aint a JRPG, but not on grounds of playstyle or lack of impact of your choices, DA2 is a WRPG due to its dialog and world setting, its type of plot is much more down to earth, sure it causes something huge, however you dont resolve that you just light the fuse, JRPG's tend to be ENTIRE WORLD IS GOING TO EXSPLODE BECOUSE SOME BROODING EMO GO SAVE IT, however they have now been massivly opening up, the problem is with final fantasy is its not a NEW IP you exspect a certain something from final fantasy and they really cant change to much from that formula, although they have managed to make each final fantasy of the main series diffrent from the other in quite incredible ways you will see the overall development of the story, plot, settings, characters is the same thats due to it being Final Fantasy.... and really using that classify all JRPG's is a bit...... awfull its like saying all western RPG's should follow the same archtype and alot do... but theres still plenty that dont

I would classify a JRPG as any RPG coming from Japan.... can anyone name me one that has come from Japan that dousent feel like a JRPG even with none linear elements, multiple endings and an open plot? example Nier..... its from Japan, they tried to get a western style.... but its most definatly japanese.... same with Demon Souls

then take biowares Jade empire.... does that feel like a JRPG? even though it borrows mythology and plots from the asian region?

DA2 is not a JRPG, but its not down to the things like lack cause and effect its down to the story telling and the overall feel of the game.... although if they made anders the main bad guy.... it might of had enough big brooding emo to get there

That....was an extremely helpful post. Aside from Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts/Golden Sun, I really didn't have alot of time with JRPGs, so my experience is very limited. Much appreciated.

And no, to the underlined. It definitely did not feel like a JRPG, despite of the setting.

[Darkhour]

I think DA2 would have been better if implimented like a JRPG. It doesnt quite work as a action based open end RPG. You are practically forced into certain behaviors just to progress through the game. The pretense of having a choice or definiing your own personality is lost in DA2.