155 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

STARSBarry wrote...

Mana-Khemia also had alot more possible endings

Quite true. There is a lot of misunderstanding about JRPGs. Many people seem to think they are all like FF.

[mesmerizedish]

Cobrawar wrote...

 DA2 isnt anywhere near baulder gate so just stop trying to make comparisons. In baulders gate 2 they didnt redesign the art and give people a  hack and slash combat system.

Actually, they totally did...

The art styles of BG1 and BGII are drastically different. The first game went for straight medieval European, while BGII was high fantasy to the extreme. And the combat system was infinitely more hack and slash than either Origins or DAII.

[AkiKishi]

Brodyaha wrote...
I've played a few JRPGs. I couldn't choose the name of my character. I couldn't choose their class. I couldn't choose what they said. I couldn't choose even one decision. It was like watching a movie most of the time.

That's for the same reason DA2'a character is called Hawke. In FFX you can actually name your character and it led to some odd pauses and Yuna refering to Tidus as "Him" in FFX-2.

JRPGs don't do fixed classes so much. It's much more mix and match.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 mars 2011 - 10:44 .

[STARSBarry]

BobSmith101 wrote...

STARSBarry wrote...

Mana-Khemia also had alot more possible endings

Quite true. There is a lot of misunderstanding about JRPGs. Many people seem to think they are all like FF.

playing Atelier Rorona right now on PS3 20 possible endings.... so far I have had the PIE ENDING! since I was a master Pie baker....

[AkiKishi]

STARSBarry wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

STARSBarry wrote...

Mana-Khemia also had alot more possible endings

Quite true. There is a lot of misunderstanding about JRPGs. Many people seem to think they are all like FF.

playing Atelier Rorona right now on PS3 20 possible endings.... so far I have had the PIE ENDING! since I was a master Pie baker....

I loved that game I felt she really deserved the PIE ending. It just seems to suit her character so well. The Astrid ending is really good as well.

It's always worth pointing out that JRPGs do have meaningful choices, it's just  less obvious than pick from a list.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[Cobrawar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

 DA2 isnt anywhere near baulder gate so just stop trying to make comparisons. In baulders gate 2 they didnt redesign the art and give people a  hack and slash combat system.

Actually, they totally did...

The art styles of BG1 and BGII are drastically different. The first game went for straight medieval European, while BGII was high fantasy to the extreme. And the combat system was infinitely more hack and slash than either Origins or DAII.

thats totally false a nit picking . BG1 and 2 are no where near the changes they made from going to DAO to DA2. unless you are blind you can see right away the differences in DA2

Modifié par Cobrawar, 19 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[Clonedzero]

you guys know what the J in JRPG means right?....

morons...

[STARSBarry]

you see bioware we wouldent be having this argument if at the end, hawk sat everyone down at her table and we all had a pie she baked as a master pie baker... wheres my choice? why cant I save the city of kirkwall with my epic baking skills?

[Clonedzero]

DA2's art style is significantly better.

elves look like elves. like another species.
qunari actually look like another species.

in DA:O elves looked like shorter humans with kinda pointy ears. qunari looked like tall black dudes. that is not good art direction. it was generic and bland as all hell.

[AkiKishi]

STARSBarry wrote...

you see bioware we wouldent be having this argument if at the end, hawk sat everyone down at her table and we all had a pie she baked as a master pie baker... wheres my choice? why cant I save the city of kirkwall with my epic baking skills?

That would have been so much better if you could make the life you chose in Kirkwall rather than being set on a fixed path.

[mesmerizedish]

Cobrawar wrote...

thats totally false a nit picking . BG1 and 2 are no where near the changes they made from going to DAO to DA2. unless you are blind you can see right away the differences in DA2

I can see right away the differences between BG1 and BGII. The paper dolls are different, the environments are different. Everything is different. I don't even mean "Duh, it's in a different place, it looks different." The style itself is radically different. Have you even played the games recently?

Here's what I mean. Baldur's Gate had brick-and-mortar castles, made of stone, with people in their period dress and fancy caps and pantaloons.

Within the first half-hour of BGII, you're in a cloning facility, complete with glass tubes to hold the clones.

That's not nit-picking. That's a radical departure in terms of environments.

[uzivatel]

Dragon Age 2 is modern WPRG...

I think Albion was probably pretty close to western JRPG (... and it was awesome).

Teddie Sage wrote...

Speak for yourself. Some people here, as rare as they are, enjoyed FF13.

Not the best game ever and I am not going to replay it (may go back to hunt some Achievements, though), but it was kind of nice experience. Nice enough to make me glad they announced FFXIII-2 (hope Fang is playable in the sequel).

Clonedzero wrote...

DA2's art style is significantly better.

elves look like elves. like another species.
qunari actually look like another species.

in DA:O elves looked like shorter humans with kinda pointy ears. qunari looked like tall black dudes. that is not good art direction. it was generic and bland as all hell.

I agree completely - if the hair covers the ears (like the Leliana haircut), its almost impossible to tell the species (other than "not dwarf", obviously).

Modifié par uzivatel, 19 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[Cobrawar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

thats totally false a nit picking . BG1 and 2 are no where near the changes they made from going to DAO to DA2. unless you are blind you can see right away the differences in DA2

I can see right away the differences between BG1 and BGII. The paper dolls are different, the environments are different. Everything is different. I don't even mean "Duh, it's in a different place, it looks different." The style itself is radically different. Have you even played the games recently?

Here's what I mean. Baldur's Gate had brick-and-mortar castles, made of stone, with people in their period dress and fancy caps and pantaloons.

Within the first half-hour of BGII, you're in a cloning facility, complete with glass tubes to hold the clones.

That's not nit-picking. That's a radical departure in terms of environments.

I think the art changes are more drastic in DA2 when compared to DAO. there are changes in the Bg series but nothing that really made me go OMG this is so different. Thats why bg2 is such a good conclusion to Bg1 even though its different it still makes the gamer feel like its in the same world. If you play DA2 over DAO you dont even feel like its in  the same world.

Modifié par Cobrawar, 19 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[AkiKishi]

uzivatel wrote...

Dragon Age 2 is modern WPRG...

I think Albion was probably pretty close to western JRPG (... and it was awesome).

Teddie Sage wrote...

Speak for yourself. Some people here, as rare as they are, enjoyed FF13.

Not the best game ever and I am not going to replay it (may go back to hunt some Achievements, though), but it was kind of nice experience. Nice enough to make me glad they announced FFXIII-2 (hope Fang is playable in the sequel).

FF's are always hit or miss, they change each time after all. I was not overly fond of FFXIII but I can't be as certain as to why as I can with DA2. I too am glad to see FFXIII-2 I just hope they revamp that half assed "job system" FFXIII had.

[UltimaFullmetal]

This is not a JRPG. Although I love JRPG's. Final Fantasy VII is still my favorite game.

[mesmerizedish]

Cobrawar wrote...

I think the art changes are more drastic in DA2 when compared to DAO. there are changes in the Bg series but nothing that really made me go OMG this is so different. Thats why bg2 is such a good conclusion to Bg1 even though its different it still makes the gamer feel like its in the same world. If you play DA2 over DAO you dont even feel like its in  the same world.

I think DAII and Origins are much more similar than anyone is willing to admit. The outdoors environments in DAII (few as they were) felt a lot like the outdoor environments in Origins. Kirkwall looked really different from Denerim, but that's less a result of the art direction and more of the fact that it's a different city with different architecture.

The design of the various races is where the most dramatic differences are, and even then, it's not that noticeable. Humans are the same, dwarves are the same, elves don't look exactly like humans anymore, and Qunari... well, we only ever saw one up close in Origins, and he was born without horns.

[EccentricSage]

I wouldn't suggest that Hawk should be able to control his companions, or save the city of Kirkwal. I understand that is not the narrative of the story. Rather, can he sometimes INFLUENCE them to bend to his will in situations where you have a moral decision to make, or else they in fact try to bend him to their will? For example, there are moral decisions in Origins where a companion, or two, will try to reason with you because they disagree with the choice you're making, and for me, I did find my companions influencing my choices. Likewise, there is one instance where Zevran wants to kill someone, and you have to talk him out of it, or agree to it, Zevran being the one taking control of the situation. I had actually wished there were more moments like that in Origins, but it's understandable that in Origins, your Warden is the leader, and those who descent usually ether have to just deal with it, or leave, or try to kill you.

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand that the dynamic in Hawk's party is different than in the Warden's party. But there should be more that Hawk can do when he disagrees with a party member, than just wash his hands of whatever that party member does. So... is Hawk sometimes able to talk his companions out of things, or into things? And when they do something he disagreed strongly with... something of importance, does he get to give them a piece of his mind afterwords? Or does the game just force you to move on as though none of that mattered?

[Ginen]

A lot of dialogue in video JRPGs is either a text dump by a nameless NPC, or is automated by a set main character since there are very few video JRPGs that allow you to create a character. Dialogue choices have never been a big part of the equation, and I really don't think it bothers the Japanese developers all that much. If dialogue choices are the only thing that defines an RPG, then that's a fairly narrow view.

Vagrant Story is the closest Squaresoft has gotten to a western RPG. But they aren't the only game in town and they don't set the rules of what a JRPG is. Nihon Falcom makes Ys which is more akin to a roguelike. Demon's Souls is also a good example--it eschews much the 'Japanese' aesthetic because the game is meant to be a gritty dark fantasy dungeon crawl, you have to create a character, and it has a steep learning curve as well as a fiendish difficulty level. The only thing these games have in common is that they are made by Japanese people.

I think its wrong to say that a JRPG is 'not' an RPG because the Japanese see RPGs differently than a western gamer, and of course there can be many different kinds of JRPGs. They are just different games, just like a turn based RPG is different from an action RPG. PnP is just as interesting to people as LARPing. No one way is 'better,' its just to your tastes.

[EccentricSage]

Clonedzero wrote...

DA2's art style is significantly better.

elves look like elves. like another species.
qunari actually look like another species.

in DA:O elves looked like shorter humans with kinda pointy ears. qunari looked like tall black dudes. that is not good art direction. it was generic and bland as all hell.

They are described as different races, capable of breeding with one another, not seperate species.  The fact that they look more like completely alien species now actually is a problem.

[mesmerizedish]

EccentricSage wrote...

They are described as different races, capable of breeding with one another, not seperate species.  The fact that they look more like completely alien species now actually is a problem.

A problem to you, perhaps. But it's not a problem to me, and, more importantly, it's not a problem to the dev team.

[Cobrawar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

I think the art changes are more drastic in DA2 when compared to DAO. there are changes in the Bg series but nothing that really made me go OMG this is so different. Thats why bg2 is such a good conclusion to Bg1 even though its different it still makes the gamer feel like its in the same world. If you play DA2 over DAO you dont even feel like its in  the same world.

I think DAII and Origins are much more similar than anyone is willing to admit. The outdoors environments in DAII (few as they were) felt a lot like the outdoor environments in Origins. Kirkwall looked really different from Denerim, but that's less a result of the art direction and more of the fact that it's a different city with different architecture.

The design of the various races is where the most dramatic differences are, and even then, it's not that noticeable. Humans are the same, dwarves are the same, elves don't look exactly like humans anymore, and Qunari... well, we only ever saw one up close in Origins, and he was born without horns.

You cant compare DA2 to BG2
 BG1and 2 are the RPG standards. DA2 is a Jrpg rush out money grab of a game with bad art and hack and slash combat and poor story

[mesmerizedish]

Cobrawar wrote...

You cant compare DA2 to BG2
 BG1and 2 are the RPG standards. DA2 is a Jrpg rush out money grab of a game with bad art and hack and slash combat and poor story

Aww, I thought we were having a civil conversation, and then you throw this slush at me. I'm taking my ball and going home

[thegreateski]

Cobrawar wrote...

You cant compare DA2 to BG2
 BG1and 2 are the RPG standards. DA2 is a Jrpg rush out money grab of a game with bad art and hack and slash combat and poor story

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQaco2UmvxlIjHCPCZMASQ8d12qD9bNlsS9luf_hZU1tY019BGQkg&t=1

[Rake21]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

You cant compare DA2 to BG2
 BG1and 2 are the RPG standards. DA2 is a Jrpg rush out money grab of a game with bad art and hack and slash combat and poor story

Aww, I thought we were having a civil conversation, and then you throw this slush at me. I'm taking my ball and going home

Sucks when that happens.

[Cobrawar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Cobrawar wrote...

You cant compare DA2 to BG2
 BG1and 2 are the RPG standards. DA2 is a Jrpg rush out money grab of a game with bad art and hack and slash combat and poor story

Aww, I thought we were having a civil conversation, and then you throw this slush at me. I'm taking my ball and going home

 No we are having a civil conversation but there is really nothing that anyone is going to say thats going to convince me DA2 is a good game. I have good tastes and intuition and know what I want. To be honest Im done with the DA series all togther. I dont really care anymore what happens with it.

Modifié par Cobrawar, 19 mars 2011 - 11:26 .