155 réponses à ce sujet

[Teh Chozen Wun]

www.youtube.com/watch

JRPG isn't even the correct term for a genre.

Modifié par Teh Chozen Wun, 20 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Arppis]

Cobrawar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

So Baldur's Gate is JRPG too? I don't remember the game having any proper choices to be made in it. It's actualy more linear than DA2 is.

 DA2 isnt anywhere near baulder gate so just stop trying to make comparisons. In baulders gate 2 they didnt redesign the art and give people a  hack and slash combat system.

They managed to make DA2 more linear then DAO

But they didn't manage to make Baldur's Gate less linear than DA2, so it must be a JRPG according to the OP. The combat system isn't really that different from Origins, all they really changed was making the combat better and more fluid (except the reinforcements, they sucked). Both DA:O and DA2 are pretty linear if you look at them, all the main events end the same way and you can only change few things around them.

And yes, I can make comparisons to the BG-series. Because it's a nice example about what OP wrote, it is linear and the story goes pretty much the same at every playtrough. Just making a point here.

[TwistedComplex]

One good thing about DA2 is how it spawns 7 billion thread of complete ineptitude

[Dr. Impossible]

Teh Chozen Wun wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

JRPG isn't even the correct term for a genre.

http://insomnia.ac/c...-playing_games/

I watched a bit of that video and thought it was very disjointed and confusing.

Modifié par Dr. Impossible, 20 mars 2011 - 06:26 .

[Fidget6]

DA2 feels nothing like a JRPG, and I don't even know how it could be construed that way. You must not have played many JRPG's.

[DraCZeQQ]

Not like characters can do insane dmg 15 000+ (which is like 100x more then their HP are)
And DA2 isnt linear! You can actually pick in which order you will do the absolutly linear dungeons filled with cinematics
And the choices does matter! .... oh wait nvm, they doesnt (ohi there "Illusion of choice" © Bioware)

[CroGamer002]

DA2 is JRPG even though it was in Canada and not in Japan?

What?


Also JRPG and WRPG do not exist. It's just made up for stereotyping.
This thread should be locked just for that.

[AkiKishi]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Not like characters can do insane dmg 15 000+ (which is like 100x more then their HP are)
And DA2 isnt linear! You can actually pick in which order you will do the absolutly linear dungeons filled with cinematics
And the choices does matter! .... oh wait nvm, they doesnt (ohi there "Illusion of choice" © Bioware)

With the right build you can do more than 15k. If your want JRPG numbers, it's 9999 without the limit breaker sometimes 99999.

You can pick the order in JRPGs too you know it's only the plot that has to be sequencial just like DA2.

Compare DA2 with Atelier Rorona which has 20+ endings based on your actions during the game.

Just because you don't pick from a list it does not mean JRPGs lack choice.

[Dr. Impossible]

Mesina2 wrote...

DA2 is JRPG even though it was in Canada and not in Japan?

A JRPG does not have to be made by Japanese people.

Also JRPG and WRPG do not exist. It's just made up for stereotyping.

Yes, Final Fantasy and Dungeons & Dragons don't exist.

[Rune-Chan]

v_ware wrote...

Dear lord.

Why are you so bent on categorizing this game?

All that matters: wether you enjoy it or not.

Exactly this. I didn't really care that Mass Effect 2 removed more traditional RPG elements, and I didn't particularly care that Dragon Age 2 did the same, I don't buy these games based upon the genre, I do it because Bioware know how to make interesting stories and characters, and their game-play/combat is usually fairly good to.

[DraCZeQQ]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...
Not like characters can do insane dmg 15 000+ (which is like 100x more then their HP are)
And DA2 isnt linear! You can actually pick in which order you will do the absolutly linear dungeons filled with cinematics
And the choices does matter! .... oh wait nvm, they doesnt (ohi there "Illusion of choice" © Bioware)

With the right build you can do more than 15k. If your want JRPG numbers, it's 9999 without the limit breaker sometimes 99999.

You can pick the order in JRPGs too you know it's only the plot that has to be sequencial just like DA2.

Compare DA2 with Atelier Rorona which has 20+ endings based on your actions during the game.

Just because you don't pick from a list it does not mean JRPGs lack choice.

Thats why I never explicitly compared DA2 to JRPG =) I just pointed out some DA2 issues

Not to mention, I kinda dont understand why some people think that being JRPG is something wrong ... I like JRPG =)

[V_Burgh]

All I got out of this thread was broody elves, pedomerrill, jewels (I don't even know), CRPG's, and the Pie ending. I'm not even sure what the Pie ending is, but it was probably my favorite part of the thread. All in all good read I will recommend this book!

[AkiKishi]

V_Burgh wrote...

All I got out of this thread was broody elves, pedomerrill, jewels (I don't even know), CRPG's, and the Pie ending. I'm not even sure what the Pie ending is, but it was probably my favorite part of the thread. All in all good read I will recommend this book!

Well there is this girl called Rorona who is "sold into servitude" as an alchemists apprentice. She's a terrible alchemist but a great baker. Sometime in the game her master forbids her from baking anything

After some thought she comes up with the idea of using alchemy to make pies. If you make all the best pies, in the end she opens up her own pie shop and lives happily ever after baking pies.

There are about 20 endings, but the pie one fits her character so well. It's also one of the most difficult ones to get.

My personal favourite is the adventurer ending, where she and her best friend go around slaying monsters. That one you get by killing all the "bonus" bosses.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 mars 2011 - 12:03 .

[RPGamer13]

So this explains why I love this game so much, not.

Yes, I love Japanese RPGs, they are what gotmme started on RPGs and video games after I realized I sucked at Castlevania and Mario Bros.

And I don't know about that guy that was quoted: He's wrong. Choice isn't what makes an RPG, it's the stats. And RPG is defined by its ability that your character(s) isn't as weak as they were in the beginning of the game.

If there is something that doesn't qualify for it being RPG it is that getting to level 50 through the glitch doesn't make the game any easier.

There's two things I don't hate: enemies that scale and a limited supply of experience.

But does that stop me from playing a Bioware game? No, because there are other things that matter much more, like a story that keeps you coming back for more which is the one thing I think Bioware does the best at.

[V_Burgh]

BobSmith101 wrote...

V_Burgh wrote...

All I got out of this thread was broody elves, pedomerrill, jewels (I don't even know), CRPG's, and the Pie ending. I'm not even sure what the Pie ending is, but it was probably my favorite part of the thread. All in all good read I will recommend this book!

Well there is this girl called Rorona who is "sold into servitude" as an alchemists apprentice. She's a terrible alchemist but a great baker. Sometime in the game her master forbids her from baking anything

After some thought she comes up with the idea of using alchemy to make pies. If you make all the best pies, in the end she opens up her own pie shop and lives happily ever after baking pies.

There are about 20 endings, but the pie one fits her character so well. It's also one of the most difficult ones to get.

My personal favourite is the adventurer ending, where she and her best friend go around slaying monsters. That one you get by killing all the "bonus" bosses.

This is the Atelier Rorona game on the PS3? If so my friend owns it and I think I might have to borrow it just to get the Pie ending.

[AkiKishi]

V_Burgh wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

V_Burgh wrote...

All I got out of this thread was broody elves, pedomerrill, jewels (I don't even know), CRPG's, and the Pie ending. I'm not even sure what the Pie ending is, but it was probably my favorite part of the thread. All in all good read I will recommend this book!

Well there is this girl called Rorona who is "sold into servitude" as an alchemists apprentice. She's a terrible alchemist but a great baker. Sometime in the game her master forbids her from baking anything

After some thought she comes up with the idea of using alchemy to make pies. If you make all the best pies, in the end she opens up her own pie shop and lives happily ever after baking pies.

There are about 20 endings, but the pie one fits her character so well. It's also one of the most difficult ones to get.

My personal favourite is the adventurer ending, where she and her best friend go around slaying monsters. That one you get by killing all the "bonus" bosses.

This is the Atelier Rorona game on the PS3? If so my friend owns it and I think I might have to borrow it just to get the Pie ending.

Thats the one.

I found it a much better personal journey than DA2. It too does not have big bad end boss only your struggle to keep your shop open.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 mars 2011 - 12:17 .

[theradicalpunk]

Actually this feels nothing like a Japanese Role Playing Game. And thanks Andraste's teets for it.

Jade Empire was wholly asian in concept. Based of alot of Chinese mythology and I wouldn't say that is a Japanese or Chinese RPG.

Dragon Age 2 is not so linear. Decisions you make actually do influence the outcome of things. Sure some circumstances are going to happen no matter what you say or do. But to sum it up as as JRPG.. pfft. That is wholly and entirely your opinion of course and of which I do not agree with sir.

Stop drinking the fizzy lifting drink! GOOD DAY!

[rumination888]

Mesina2 wrote...

DA2 is JRPG even though it was in Canada and not in Japan?

What?


Also JRPG and WRPG do not exist. It's just made up for stereotyping.
This thread should be locked just for that.

This.

Some people wanted RPGs to be less linear, and in typical fashion, they add "the other" as a tool of persuasion - Don't be like "the other"! If you don't do it this way, then you're being like "the other"!

Whats great about that line of persuasion is there are plenty of clueless, ignorant people who will jump to defend the made-up "other" with opinions - "nothing is wrong with the 'other'! stop picking on the 'other'! i like the 'other'!". And that is exactly how stereotypes, racism, and xenophobia start, and why theyre so rampant in the world.

There are many of RPGs made in the west that only have one way an ending plays out(thats a linear game in a nutshell), just as there are many RPGs made in japan that only have one main ending.
There are also many RPGs made in the west have have more than one ending. Just like there are many RPGs made in japan(even games from other genres) that have multiple endings based on whether or not you performed specific actions - a real choice - in the game.

Modifié par rumination888, 20 mars 2011 - 01:09 .

[Obro]

Hm...after reading this thread I came to a conclusion that DA2 is indeed not JRPG.

It is in fact an action adventure game with poor RPG elements and bad story.

[AkiKishi]

Obro wrote...

Hm...after reading this thread I came to a conclusion that DA2 is indeed not JRPG.

It is in fact an action adventure game with poor RPG elements and bad story.

Glad to help you reach that conclusion

[Dr. Impossible]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Choice isn't what makes an RPG, it's the stats.

This is entirely wrong.

[StingingVelvet]

It really is.

Here is a Bioware quote:

"My favorite thing, it's funny when you still see it, but the joke of some of the dialogue systems where it asks, 'do you wanna do this or this,' and you say no. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. Lemme think -- you want me to say 'yes.' And that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG."

That perfectly describes DA2.

[BloodyAnon]

 I wonder why are some of you trying to demean JRPG just because you're furious with disappointment (not for all, but many for sure), also known as Dragon Age 2. The only element I found a bit enjoyable in the game were companions. I played it till the end in hope, but DA 2 failed from my point of view in everything else, starting with graphics, ending with story. 

Just to clarify, I'm not one against changes, things evolve. I really did like what they did with games like Jade Empire, it was new, interesting, and most importantly - enjoyable. DA2, however, is not.

[Haexpane]

Final Fantasy X
- you can't change the appearance of your squad, you can only do minor stat upgrades. This is because they wanted to preserve the distinct look of these awful characters that grate on the nerves

Dragon Age 2
- same as FFX

DA2 is obviously not ALL JRPGs but it definitely pulled a FFX this time.

The best JRPGs allow you to customize. Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics...

[GRX Dragon]

Obro wrote...

 No really.I just cant see it as WRPG.Let me explain why in my opinion:

my main gripe ...Lack of any important choices.
Anyone who finished the game knows that there are situations that happen no mater what you do or say.Now I would have no problem with that if say...they were absolutely necessary but....they are not.They could have be easily done.

And let me quote on Greg Zeschuk commenting on JRPG :

"My favorite thing, it’s funny when you still see it, but the joke of some of the dialogue systems where it asks, ‘do you wanna do this or this,’ and you say no. ‘Do you wanna do this or this?’ No. ‘Do you wanna do this or this?’ No. Lemme think — you want me to say ‘yes.’ And that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG.”
That's a funny thing to say...considering that in 99% of quests in DA2 you get the quest no mater what you say.I will just point out the most obvious one for me (not a spoiler)...the mother that asking for her halfelf son.Can tell her that if you find him you decide his fate pointing out that you could just kill him if you want and she still gives you the quest and location! Also the Bethanys housband...he will give you the quest no mater what you say.This game just offers ilussion of choice.In many cases you juse have YES,YES with a joke and YES with a threat or something in those lines.

And the games "endings"? There is only one ending.

Main character.
 
The main character is fixed.He's Hawke. He's not your character. There is no immersion. It would be like I took...say... Uncharted game and allowed you to change Nathans last name.Or ,to compare to JRPG, alow say....idk..Cloud change his last name.And more so there are many places where Hawke just does what he wants and says what he wants without giving you choice.In ME2 there is a good deal of actual choice even though he is still Shepard.In DA2 there is no such thing as a choice that has a lasting effect.

Waste of stats.

Stats don't count in anything else but combat. The most obvious example is that mind controlling prostitute.How did I a warrior character with willpower score of whooping 10 broke out of her spell? It makes no sense.There could be so much more I mean....why do I need to buy extra bag space? Why doesnt it increase with my STR or CON? Why does willpower only counts in for mana? Such a waste in my opinion.


And one last thing. Quoting Daniel Erickson a writing director in BioWare:
“Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not an RPG.You don’t make any choices, you don’t create a character, you don’t live your character… I don’t know what those are – adventure games maybe? But they’re not RPG’s.”

-You don’t make any choices
here you do but they don't count so they are mostly pointles
-you don’t create a character
in DA2 you just change your face 
-you don’t live your character
A thing of immersion.Some people get immersed into a character some don't 
-I don’t know what those are – adventure games maybe? But they’re not RPG’s.
I agree with this one

-You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not an RPG.

I would just end with:

BioWare maybe made it but it's not an RPG

/agree

DA2 closely resembles an Action/Adventure, and without any adventure to boot. No J, no W, and no RPG; just action/pseudo-adventure at best.