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[Zalitara]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

There's plenty of people in fantasy that has been born from evil who decides to do good instead. Just because it has the soul of an old god doesn't mean the child itself will be evil.

I see the point about Flemeth. But the way she talkes makes me think she saved both the heroes just for her own sake and throws in some random advise for free. I think everything she does is for her own sake and not for the sake of the people she happens to save.

[joejoe099]

well, one of the loading screens IS the mirror she escaped into with, or without the warden so yes, i'd expect her to be in hawk's book

[Raltar]

Zalitara wrote...

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

There's plenty of people in fantasy that has been born from evil who decides to do good instead. Just because it has the soul of an old god doesn't mean the child itself will be evil.

Even if that were the case, I don't feel it will ever get to that point because of the type of person Morrigan is.  There is no way she can raise that child to be a force of good and the likelyhood of it growing up to be good is so insignificant that it may as well not even be considered.  Besides, I doubt it would even get old enough to make a difference before Morrigan harvests the child's power for herself.

[CruserBoii]

Dante Angelo wrote...

CruserBoii wrote...

Her book may also contain info about the wardens adventures & companions.

No thats what Leliana's for

Maybe Leliana was the one who helped with that portion of the book, she was there with the warden & companions through Origins.

[Zalitara]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

There's plenty of people in fantasy that has been born from evil who decides to do good instead. Just because it has the soul of an old god doesn't mean the child itself will be evil.

Even if that were the case, I don't feel it will ever get to that point because of the type of person Morrigan is.  There is no way she can raise that child to be a force of good and the likelyhood of it growing up to be good is so insignificant that it may as well not even be considered.  Besides, I doubt it would even get old enough to make a difference before Morrigan harvests the child's power for herself.

You could of course be right, I just really liked Morrigan as a character and belives she'll do the right thing, I'll be dissapointed if it turns out I am wrong. It depends on what story you follow I guess. In my game my warden went with her, and he wouldn't have allowed her to **** it up.

[TheBlackBaron]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

...What an incredibly shortsighted point of view. 

EDIT: And yeah, that picture of Shale is pretty win. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 20 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[Raltar]

I'm prepared to be wrong...but my impression from playing Origins countless times leads me to believe the way I do.

[Malja]

Evewyn wrote...
OMG I can't stop laughing at that pic of Shale.  The dead chicken... and I think I see a smile on that golem's face... and the other chicken is like, "Oh, crap!"

Sorry, back on topic.  Are any of you really that surprised to see a mention of Morrigan?

Surprised? Not really. Not everyone caught it though, so this is mostly a "Oh, spiffy" response.

[Raltar]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...What an incredibly shortsighted point of view. 

Care to explain why?

[AtreiyaN7]

Ah, now that's very interesting - nice catch. Didn't really notice at the time. Heh, cute Shale pic btw.

[Bryy_Miller]

Please God let this actually mean Shale is in the expansion and not just be a funny little joke.

[SirOccam]

Raltar wrote...

Because you can't trust a god damn word she says. It's pretty clear to me that she is up to some serious no good. She wants a demonic old god baby to gain untold power that she will use to either destroy or take over the world. She needs to be stopped.

Or, she needs to be trusted.

This "destroying or taking over the world" thing is you jumping to conclusions. I can see why someone might not trust her, but it's not like it's a fact.

If anyone's up to no good, I'd say it's Flemeth. And the enemy of my enemy and so forth. (My characters don't hate Flemeth personally, though...both my Warden and my Hawke have had their lives saved by her. But my Warden was willing to kill her to protect Morrigan, and my Hawke just sort of doesn't trust her.).

Modifié par SirOccam, 20 mars 2011 - 12:49 .

[Helena Tylena]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

Except that Flemeth ALSO wants the Old God Baby. It's the reason she sent Morrigan along for the ride.

I believe that neither Flemeth or Morrigan are evil. Or good, for that matter. Just self-serving.

EDIT: Also, Flemeth saved the Warden so she could send Morrigan with them and have the Old God Baby. Flemeth saved Hawke because she anticipated Morrigan betraying her and having her killed, and she deemed Hawke strong enough to carry the amulet horcrux thingy to the Dalish.

Modifié par Helena Tylena, 20 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[Raltar]

Thing is, there is no reason not to trust Flemeth. She hasn't shown any ill will to you or anyone else(except templars, but basically any apostate will say as much). She saves your life. Why would you think she was up to no good? As I said earlier in the thread, the only bad things you hear about Flemeth is unconfirmable things Morrigan tells you.

[Raltar]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

Except that Flemeth ALSO wants the Old God Baby. It's the reason she sent Morrigan along for the ride.

I believe that neither Flemeth or Morrigan are evil. Or good, for that matter. Just self-serving.

EDIT: Also, Flemeth saved the Warden so she could send Morrigan with them and have the Old God Baby. Flemeth saved Hawke because she anticipated Morrigan betraying her and having her killed, and she deemed Hawke strong enough to carry the amulet horcrux thingy to the Dalish.

That is a possibility.

[Helena Tylena]

Raltar wrote...

Thing is, there is no reason not to trust Flemeth. She hasn't shown any ill will to you or anyone else(except templars, but basically any apostate will say as much). She saves your life. Why would you think she was up to no good? As I said earlier in the thread, the only bad things you hear about Flemeth is unconfirmable things Morrigan tells you.

Then again, the only bad things you hear about Morrigan are the comments Alistair makes.

[TheBlackBaron]

Raltar wrote...

Thing is, there is no reason not to trust Flemeth. She hasn't shown any ill will to you or anyone else(except templars, but basically any apostate will say as much). She saves your life. Why would you think she was up to no good? As I said earlier in the thread, the only bad things you hear about Flemeth is unconfirmable things Morrigan tells you.

Well, since evidently the old god baby is certain to be an evil demonic force that can serve no good purpose, that's reason numero uno since the whole thing was Flemeth's idea in the first place. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 20 mars 2011 - 01:20 .

[PantheraOnca]

Im pretty sure old gods are forces of non-morality. As in, none of the old gods, in and of themselves are evil nor good. darkspawn corrupted old god is a different story.

a cleansed old god may also have insight into ending the darkspawn that no one else could possibly have. im kind of assuming that the old god's memories will be accessible to the child at some point, but even if not, it will be a massive power, that once worked alongside darkspawn, not working with them any longer. will this power work against them or for someone else? we will see.

on a sidenote, i'm kind of surprised we haven't heard of some wardens attempting to talk to an archdemon through the connection of the taint. its basically the first thing i'd try, "yo archdog, whats the deal guy, why you so pissed?"

[Raltar]

Where do you all get the information that it was Flemeth's idea in the first place? Not saying it isn't possible, but there is no evidence that I can see.

[Dante Angelo]

CruserBoii wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

CruserBoii wrote...

Her book may also contain info about the wardens adventures & companions.

No thats what Leliana's for

Maybe Leliana was the one who helped with that portion of the book, she was there with the warden & companions through Origins.

Yea true

[Helena Tylena]

Raltar wrote...

Where do you all get the information that it was Flemeth's idea in the first place? Not saying it isn't possible, but there is no evidence that I can see.

You think Morrigan could've found out about that on her own? How?

[PantheraOnca]

I believe its in the dialogue you have with morrigan when she proposes the ritual.

http://dragonage.wik...rrigan's_Ritual

"Morrigan believes that the child will survive and possess the soul of an Old God, freed of its darkspawn corruption. This ritual, Morrigan claims, is the reason Flemeth rescued the Wardens and the reason Morrigan had to accompany them. As Flemeth suggested this, in Morrigan's companion quest, it could be assumed Flemeth in fact wanted to possess the child and thus become a god. "

[PirateT138]

I caught the Shale one before but I never saw Morrigan, nice catch, OP.

[roberttonkiss]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

If you remember the implication is that morrigans baby is an uncorrupted old god. Also Flameth as much as admitted she wasnt human. I suspect from her actions she turn out to be a neutral old god ie niether good or evil