77 réponses à ce sujet

[Trapslick]

the whole morrigan and flemeth sub-story was my favorite part of DAO

[Nokternul]

Tsk, tsk people...

Hasn't DAII taught you anything? I suspect it is a very big mistake trying to pigeonhole or polarize Flemeth in a black/white, good/evil way. She's far to paradoxical to be simply good or simply evil. Despite the fact that Flemeth is increasingly mysterious in both purpose and intent, I think it's safe to say that Flemeth has her own agenda that is neither necessarily good nor evil--she isn't dictated or limited by such generalized alignments. She is pursuing her own ends by the most efficient and most favorable means she can, whatever those ends may be--I somehow doubt they are objectively good or evil.

The only constantly demonstrated about Flemeth thus far is that she is an agent, or facilitator, of change.

[Xephyr829]

PirateT138 wrote...

I caught the Shale one before but I never saw Morrigan, nice catch, OP.

I'm not the one who caught it, it was Brockololly.

I was just passing it along.

[Envor44]

Nice catch on Morrigan and Shale, well apparently their role far from over.

[Maria Caliban]

Dante Angelo wrote...

Didn't the Devs say Morrigan's story was far from over?

Several times.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaw.

Shale's so adorable.

Shale: Assimilate.

Aaaaw. Does the giant golem of destruction have good vocabulary? Does he?

I'm going to run for my life now.

[Vilegrim]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Thank god, for a second I thought that I would never have to look at Morrigan again...

give me back my warden and fully written out ansers (not misleading or downright wrong summaries) and we are golden (sorry F!Hawk, you would have made a graet companion but my warden is far more dear to me)

[KingDan97]

When I see my warden I want to be able to metagame him. He better keep his trap shut, smile creepily and at times inappropriately while I further my own desires of the character of what ever the protagonist of that game is. Either that or wait till DA4 and have an uber team of Warden, Hawke and whatever other two BA's I get in the next two games. With our LIs that's at least 8 people.

[Kor-elly]

Could it be possible that flemeth is an the neutral god that Merrill talk about in the stories that locked all the other gods of the dalish in another realm. I saw how she reacted when she saw flemeth she seemed very scared, Hawke seemed even nerves (IMO)

[TexasToast712]

Raltar wrote...

Zalitara wrote...
 I really think Flemeth is the real bad guy her, and if not wouldn't you do something drastic if you thought that someone that powerful was out to kill you?

I don't think she is the evil some people seem to think she is.  I certainly don't see Flemeth as a force of good...but she saved two of the most important people in all of Thedas(Hawke and the Warden).  She did so for a reason and I believe she did it for the greater good.  Aside from things Morrigan tells you, Flemeth hasn't done a single thing that would make me thing she is out to do bad things in the world.  While Morrigan wants an evil demon old god baby which clearly can serve no good purpose.

Yet you forget that it was Flemeth's plan all along to send Morrigan with the Warden for the purpose of the Dark Ritual. So who is really pulling the strings? Flemeth clearly wanted Morrigan to have the OGB so she could do something with it herself but that plan gets set back if you deal with Flemeth in Origins. Morrigan was just following orders up until Flemeth was slain by the Warden. Now she has taken up the mantle of her mother and is going to carry through with the plan herself, but was Flemeth's plan for good or evil? We will just have to wait and see, but for now, I trust  my Warden and Morrigan.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 20 mars 2011 - 05:51 .

[TexasToast712]

PantheraOnca wrote...
on a sidenote, i'm kind of surprised we haven't heard of some wardens attempting to talk to an archdemon through the connection of the taint. its basically the first thing i'd try, "yo archdog, whats the deal guy, why you so pissed?"

Always wondered that myself.

[mommachay]

someone mentioned earlier that they thought there was a chance that flemmeth was an unbiased old god, which makes sense to me. it got me thinking more about what she might be. i've come to my own personal conclusion that i think she may be "the dread wolf" somehow in human form. think about it... the dalish seem to know more about her than anyone else, and even seem to somewhat respect her. she has always lived similarly to the dalish. the "dread wolf" locked the other gods away while he/she/it enjoyed the chaos left over. flemeth seems to also thrive off of the chaos somewhat. if she didn't, then why would she not simply give more details in order to stop the blight or try to save kirckwall? she obviously has some sense of future occurances. they seem to have a lot of similarities from what little we know of them imo...

[fantasypisces]

Raltar wrote...

I'm prepared to be wrong...but my impression from playing Origins countless times leads me to believe the way I do.

Well for playing Origins countless times you sure did miss a lot.

The reason Flemeth has survived for so long is because she raises daughters, then basically possesses their bodies to remain young. Additionally, Morrigan tells you about how Flemeth would literally hunt templars (using Morrigan as bait).

Morrigan then tells you (in one of the best conversation pieces, when she proposes the ritual) how the only reason Flemeth really saved the wardens and made them take Morrigan, is so that Morrigan could do the ritual and go back to dear mommy.

What Flemeth didn't realize is that Morrigan found out about her plans, went all 'heck no!' (with a " 'tis " in there somewhere) and had the Warden (potentially) "kill" her.

[Silveryne]

SmokeyTheBear wrote...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaw.

Shale's so adorable.

Shale: Assimilate.

Aaaaw. Does the giant golem of destruction have good vocabulary? Does he?

I'm going to run for my life now.

Shale seeks, locates, and exterminates pigeons. A sovereign to the man who gets the reference.

ANYWAY

I'm wondering if the whole Warden Story didn't get entangled or mangled with the whole Hawke Story somehow. It's also possible that this is just a big old book of Thedas legends and heroes.

[Statulos]

mommachay wrote...

someone mentioned earlier that they thought there was a chance that flemmeth was an unbiased old god, which makes sense to me. it got me thinking more about what she might be. i've come to my own personal conclusion that i think she may be "the dread wolf" somehow in human form. think about it... the dalish seem to know more about her than anyone else, and even seem to somewhat respect her. she has always lived similarly to the dalish. the "dread wolf" locked the other gods away while he/she/it enjoyed the chaos left over. flemeth seems to also thrive off of the chaos somewhat. if she didn't, then why would she not simply give more details in order to stop the blight or try to save kirckwall? she obviously has some sense of future occurances. they seem to have a lot of similarities from what little we know of them imo...

There is also an interesting element in elven myth: there are 9 gods (including the Dread Wolf) and an unnumbered amount of "Forgotten Ones" that we only know to be trapped. Those "Forgotten Ones" can be the same as the Old Gods, leading us to think that the Old Gods are dragons that we know or become "stuck" in the form of dragons when they become archdemons (the taint seems to enrage and irrationalize corrupted beings) so perhaps Flement is an actual Old God.

On the other hand, the Dread Wolf is told to be capable of walking among both gods and in many forms of American mythology, that is the exact definition of a shaman: someone capable of interacting with everything out there and mediate, both human and non-human. Flemeth is a shapeshipfter for sure, so extra element on that line. The fact that Flemeth knows very ancient magic, (the Dark Ritual tought to Morrigan) is an indicative that she´s not just a very old abomination, a blood mage and an old lady, but perhaps all those and many others.


In Origins she´s very concerned with the Blight. We can think that it´s because she´s old enough to remember the previous and the devastation they created or because she does not want to get tainted...

Modifié par Statulos, 20 mars 2011 - 08:41 .

[Count Viceroy]

When DA3 takes place. Morrigans baby is probably old enough to cause trouble.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Tsarapihelas]

Brockololly wrote...

The end of the game book sequence also has Flemeth:


And Shale:

Nice.


I guess her and Wynne found nothing in Minrathous to restore her to her dwarf-form. Shame, really. All that time wasted hitting on her in Origins was for nothing.

[FaeQueenCory]

SpectreWarden91 wrote...

I saw this too!! I wonder what it means... Glad there was already a topic, cause I was about to start one....

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Please God let this actually mean Shale is in the expansion and not just be a funny little joke.

I want her to at least make a cameo with her as a little dwarf woman decked out in massive armor... that can barely move.... Like what I got for my Origins ending slide.

fantasypisces wrote...

Raltar wrote...

I'm prepared to be wrong...but my impression from playing Origins countless times leads me to believe the way I do.

Well for playing Origins countless times you sure did miss a lot.

The reason Flemeth has survived for so long is because she raises daughters, then basically possesses their bodies to remain young. Additionally, Morrigan tells you about how Flemeth would literally hunt templars (using Morrigan as bait).

Morrigan then tells you (in one of the best conversation pieces, when she proposes the ritual) how the only reason Flemeth really saved the wardens and made them take Morrigan, is so that Morrigan could do the ritual and go back to dear mommy.

What Flemeth didn't realize is that Morrigan found out about her plans, went all 'heck no!' (with a " 'tis " in there somewhere) and had the Warden (potentially) "kill" her.

It's pretty obvious, both from DA2 and Origins, when you talk to Flemeth, that she knows, without a doubt, that Morrigan will make an attempt on her life... And "Why not? It's what [she] raised her to be."

Also, I don't buy this whole Fen'Harel connection with Flemeth.
Because it ignores one huge GLARING  hole:
At one point, and everyone in the game has said this at one time or another, Flemeth WAS  human. Personally, I feel her whole scheme is tied to Osen. I honestly believe that her legendary tale of her first powerplay to get her and her love on Connobar's throne is what is most integral to her motives.
I feel that the biggest support of my theory was her regret line: "Regret is something I know well. Take care not to cling to it, to hold it so close that it poisons your soul. When the time comes for your regrets, remember me."
This (and her "Considering what the world has done to me, I have already done more than it deserves." line) make me think that her goal is personal and tied to her heart.

However, who's to say that the great "demon" she found in the Wilds wasn't the ancient spirit Fen'Harel? I see no reason why Flemeth can't be the same kind of abomination that Andraste (or even Wynne) was.
(Yes, Andraste was a mage. Deal with it. It makes her parts of the Chant make SO much more sense historically and contextually.)

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 20 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[naledgeborn]

I'm starting to think more and more that Flemeth is Fen'Harel the Dread Wolf. She's a trickster God, not 'good' or 'evil' just out to survive.

[MColes]

Nice find!

Flemeth isn't really good/bad.. She seems more like a force of nature. Or perhaps Chaos. But there is evolution in chaos, and without change there can never be growth.

p.s. LOL SHALE! It looks like after wiping out all the Pidgeons in Fereldan, she's moved onto Chickens. I think she just needs to have some really good scrambled eggs.

[Vandicus]

MColes wrote...

Nice find!

Flemeth isn't really good/bad.. She seems more like a force of nature. Or perhaps Chaos. But there is evolution in chaos, and without change there can never be growth.

p.s. LOL SHALE! It looks like after wiping out all the Pidgeons in Fereldan, she's moved onto Chickens. I think she just needs to have some really good scrambled eggs.

Well Flemeth kills for malicious pleasure several times, as seen in The Stolen Throne and as mentioned by the Dalish.

Modifié par Vandicus, 20 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[MColes]

Killing templars who are after her, is not malicious imo. I have the Stolen Throne, she never goes around murdering people for ****s and giggles. As crazy as she is. Its also the same scene, thatw as drawn into a mini comic by Penny-Arcade before Origins came out. They were going after her.

[Beaynid]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Im pretty sure old gods are forces of non-morality. As in, none of the old gods, in and of themselves are evil nor good. darkspawn corrupted old god is a different story.

a cleansed old god may also have insight into ending the darkspawn that no one else could possibly have. im kind of assuming that the old god's memories will be accessible to the child at some point, but even if not, it will be a massive power, that once worked alongside darkspawn, not working with them any longer. will this power work against them or for someone else? we will see.

on a sidenote, i'm kind of surprised we haven't heard of some wardens attempting to talk to an archdemon through the connection of the taint. its basically the first thing i'd try, "yo archdog, whats the deal guy, why you so pissed?"

lol that made me chuckle   and we can look at the evidence that when you get an achdemons attention, bad things happen.  case in point, the archdemon sees you in your dream and then darkspawn raid the party's camp.

I consider flemeth and morrigan both as the pagan priestesses, trying to bring back the old days of magic being free, no darkspawn, and the templars circle and current chantry werent even concepts thought of.  It was flemeths idea and raised morrigan to believe it.  morrigan wants that even though flemeth was raising her as a body jump.  so morrigan is working towards that goal on top of staying protected from flemeth.
  ogb is just another piece of the old world kept alive to be reborn into the coming new age.  could even be that the old gods are what they worship so preserving an untainted one in a childs body could be their version of a messiah.

[Vandicus]

MColes wrote...

Killing templars who are after her, is not malicious imo. I have the Stolen Throne, she never goes around murdering people for ****s and giggles. As crazy as she is. Its also the same scene, thatw as drawn into a mini comic by Penny-Arcade before Origins came out. They were going after her.

I didn't think that the refugee hiding from Orlesian oppression named Dannon in the Stolen Throne was a templar. However, the Dalish did mention in DA2 that anyone who survives a meeting with Flemeth is remarkably lucky.