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[da 2pacalypse]

I finished Dragon age 2 today, and as a huge fan of origins, all I can say is that Bioware had so much potential for the story of this game to be so much larger, so much bigger and have so much more impact. However they failed.

I finished the story with so many unanswered questions... I mean what was the point of putting Flemeth in the game, and have her talk about Morrigan, only to never show her face in the game again.  This is such a tease, I thought for sure she would have a bigger role in the story, but I was clearly wrong.  In addition to the flemeth issue, what was the point of meeting the gray wardens before defeating the Arishok if they don't have any significance in the story at all. They mention a "much greater threat" that they must attend to, but the story never follows up with that.  These issues are the reason I came away from the game feeling like Bioware put this thing together within a few months. I mean the levels are often used over and over and over again.  I just never feel like I'm getting anywhere, and when i finally feel like my character is "bad-ass", the game abruptly ends. 

Dont' get me wrong, I think the story was still pretty good, but for a Bioware game, I expected so much more.  when i defeated the Arishok I thought that hawke would have other challanges outside of kirkwall to face in order to keep the city safe (again, the Gray Wardens mention they need help).  The length of the game felt like it was half of the amount of time i spent in my origins playthroughs. I just wanted to end my rant by saying this: Bioware, please provide us with a good expansion atleast!

[AlexXIV]

I think DA2 is only the first part of the Hawke story. That's why it is open ended. In DA3 we probably continue where Hawke leaves Kirkwall. Either as a hero/symbol for the mages or templars.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[da 2pacalypse]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think DA2 is only the first part of the Hawke story. That's why it is open ended. In DA3 we probably continue where Hawke leaves Kirkwall. Either as a hero/symbol for the mages or templars.

I do agree with you, but then what does the last scene in the game with Lileana mean?

nevertheless, this game just isn't like Bioware.  I have never come away from a bioware game not wanting to go right back in with another playthrough.  This game is therefore a disapointment for me

[Noatz]

Its called buildup. Foreshadowing. Hype.

Joining the story of LoTR at Pelennor fields would be no good, this can be judged similarly.

[joejoe099]

alex is wrong, its YEARS later when varric is retelling hawk's story to the seeker, and both hawk and the warden have vanished, with the mages and templars at each other's throats. DA2, i'd like to see it as at least, more of a set up for DA3 where the magic flying **** hits the templar fan

[Dervla]

I'm not finished the game yet, I'm in Act 3 and have just met King Alistair.
My immediate thought was "Oh, DA 3 is going to be in Orlais".

[Miashi]

Well, Sandal going to Orlais was the obvious hint :3

[Khayness]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I do agree with you, but then what does the last scene in the game with Lileana mean?

G-man Flemeth probably recruited Hawke and The Warden.

After the end of Act 2, the game feels like a prologue to the next game. You became the Champ, and that's about it.

Then you are forced into unavoidable conflicts, which made no sense. I have supported the mages every given occasion, and I still had to murder a ton of rebelling mages and templars.

Hi guys! Mages must be free. Now die.

[ShrinkingFish]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I finished Dragon age 2 today, and as a huge fan of origins, all I can say is that Bioware had so much potential for the story of this game to be so much larger, so much bigger and have so much more impact. However they failed.

I finished the story with so many unanswered questions... I mean what was the point of putting Flemeth in the game, and have her talk about Morrigan, only to never show her face in the game again.  This is such a tease, I thought for sure she would have a bigger role in the story, but I was clearly wrong.  In addition to the flemeth issue, what was the point of meeting the gray wardens before defeating the Arishok if they don't have any significance in the story at all. They mention a "much greater threat" that they must attend to, but the story never follows up with that.  These issues are the reason I came away from the game feeling like Bioware put this thing together within a few months. I mean the levels are often used over and over and over again.  I just never feel like I'm getting anywhere, and when i finally feel like my character is "bad-ass", the game abruptly ends. 

Dont' get me wrong, I think the story was still pretty good, but for a Bioware game, I expected so much more.  when i defeated the Arishok I thought that hawke would have other challanges outside of kirkwall to face in order to keep the city safe (again, the Gray Wardens mention they need help).  The length of the game felt like it was half of the amount of time i spent in my origins playthroughs. I just wanted to end my rant by saying this: Bioware, please provide us with a good expansion atleast!

You mean you were dissapointed with this game because it was a middle chapter and not the final chapter that you were hoping for?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree entirely with everything you said. Everything you hated, I loved. Every bit of it. For my counter arguement, just take your own an invert it.

[da 2pacalypse]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I finished Dragon age 2 today, and as a huge fan of origins, all I can say is that Bioware had so much potential for the story of this game to be so much larger, so much bigger and have so much more impact. However they failed.

I finished the story with so many unanswered questions... I mean what was the point of putting Flemeth in the game, and have her talk about Morrigan, only to never show her face in the game again.  This is such a tease, I thought for sure she would have a bigger role in the story, but I was clearly wrong.  In addition to the flemeth issue, what was the point of meeting the gray wardens before defeating the Arishok if they don't have any significance in the story at all. They mention a "much greater threat" that they must attend to, but the story never follows up with that.  These issues are the reason I came away from the game feeling like Bioware put this thing together within a few months. I mean the levels are often used over and over and over again.  I just never feel like I'm getting anywhere, and when i finally feel like my character is "bad-ass", the game abruptly ends. 

Dont' get me wrong, I think the story was still pretty good, but for a Bioware game, I expected so much more.  when i defeated the Arishok I thought that hawke would have other challanges outside of kirkwall to face in order to keep the city safe (again, the Gray Wardens mention they need help).  The length of the game felt like it was half of the amount of time i spent in my origins playthroughs. I just wanted to end my rant by saying this: Bioware, please provide us with a good expansion atleast!

You mean you were dissapointed with this game because it was a middle chapter and not the final chapter that you were hoping for?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree entirely with everything you said. Everything you hated, I loved. Every bit of it. For my counter arguement, just take your own an invert it.

I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

[ymatis]

I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

10 hours? i just beat the game on hard/nightmare and it took me 61 hours.

Modifié par ymatis, 20 mars 2011 - 01:11 .

[ken007]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree entirely with everything you said. Everything you hated, I loved. Every bit of it. For my counter arguement, just take your own an invert it.

You loved the fact that every area of the game was reused over and over again in a never ending circle of dejavu? Don't get me wrong I really like this game, but there are obvious signs that Bioware rushed this game out of the door and this game could have been so much more imo. I completely agree with the OP that the ending seemed forced with templars and mages for unexplainable reasons making decisions that are completely out of place. One example is the 1. enchanter at the end decides to use blood magic, like all of a sudden he feels like he MUST use blood magic even though I completely roflstomped the first waves of templars and what is the result.... he turns himself into a freaky monster and I have to kill him, so what the F did he accomplish?! Did he have to go THAT far? It doesn't make sense.

I did like the lyrium sword being the reason for Merideths lack of reasoning though, but the decision of the 1. enchanter was just plain out of place and moronic.

[ShrinkingFish]

da 2pacalypse wrote...
I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

This game was the story of the Champion and how he influenced the events that changed the world as we know it. This game was to set the stage for future games. It wasn't meant to answer all of our questions. That was never the point. Granted, this is very much unlike a Bioware game. However, I believe it displays significant growth in their story telling abilities and served to enrich the story beyond this single game significantly.

The game wasn't a final chapter to anything except for Hawke's tenur as Champion of Kirkwall. It was only one of the middle chapters for the story of Dragon Age. And it served it's perpose perfectly. If you got all the answers and absolute closure in Chapter 2... would you keep reading the book till the end?

[da 2pacalypse]

ken007 wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree entirely with everything you said. Everything you hated, I loved. Every bit of it. For my counter arguement, just take your own an invert it.

You loved the fact that every area of the game was reused over and over again in a never ending circle of dejavu? Don't get me wrong I really like this game, but there are obvious signs that Bioware rushed this game out of the door and this game could have been so much more imo. I completely agree with the OP that the ending seemed forced with templars and mages for unexplainable reasons making decisions that are completely out of place. One example is the 1. enchanter at the end decides to use blood magic, like all of a sudden he feels like he MUST use blood magic even though I completely roflstomped the first waves of templars and what is the result.... he turns himself into a freaky monster and I have to kill him, so what the F did he accomplish?! Did he have to go THAT far? It doesn't make sense.

I did like the lyrium sword being the reason for Merideths lack of reasoning though, but the decision of the 1. enchanter was just plain out of place and moronic.

I agree with you completely, that sword did link everything together very well. I also thought the Anders' decision was so awkward, and it didn't make sense to me.  The game is good, I think it just feels that the original writers of the game just quit halfway through the story.  The re-used levels are horrible, and they make the game so boring and repetitive. I just can't understand things in the game, there are loop holes in the story and just so many questions left unanswered. I just hope Bioware can follow up with a good expansion that can explain things well.

[da 2pacalypse]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...
I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

This game was the story of the Champion and how he influenced the events that changed the world as we know it. This game was to set the stage for future games. It wasn't meant to answer all of our questions. That was never the point. Granted, this is very much unlike a Bioware game. However, I believe it displays significant growth in their story telling abilities and served to enrich the story beyond this single game significantly.

The game wasn't a final chapter to anything except for Hawke's tenur as Champion of Kirkwall. It was only one of the middle chapters for the story of Dragon Age. And it served it's perpose perfectly. If you got all the answers and absolute closure in Chapter 2... would you keep reading the book till the end?

That's a horrible excuse... Mass effect 2 wasn't supposed to finish the story, yet I felt like I accopmlished something, because I did what I was supposed to do. So what did Hawke do that I should be so proud of? I'm sorry, I disagree with you completely, the ending of the game comes out of nowhere and its simply not justified. 

[Last Vizard]

what if EA just wants to get player to buy more DLC and pay for things that should be part of the main story anyway? whats the deal with the prince DLC?
throw in three or four great DLC that makes the game alot better as a whole and you have a good game but you need to keep paying money for something you've bought expecting it to be the whole game... (or atleast knowing they will screw you for more money) lol feel better now.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 20 mars 2011 - 01:21 .

[Medhia Nox]

Noatz - if you paid 60$ to play the first part with the hobbits - have a party for Bilbo - run from Ring Wraiths - meet Aragorn - and then end it with Frodo being stabbed by the Witch King on Weathertop (without knowing the rest of Lord of the Rings)

Would you be pleased with your purchase?

[Junri]

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

[ShrinkingFish]

ken007 wrote...

You loved the fact that every area of the game was reused over and over again in a never ending circle of dejavu? Don't get me wrong I really like this game, but there are obvious signs that Bioware rushed this game out of the door and this game could have been so much more imo. I completely agree with the OP that the ending seemed forced with templars and mages for unexplainable reasons making decisions that are completely out of place. One example is the 1. enchanter at the end decides to use blood magic, like all of a sudden he feels like he MUST use blood magic even though I completely roflstomped the first waves of templars and what is the result.... he turns himself into a freaky monster and I have to kill him, so what the F did he accomplish?! Did he have to go THAT far? It doesn't make sense.

I did like the lyrium sword being the reason for Merideths lack of reasoning though, but the decision of the 1. enchanter was just plain out of place and moronic.

Granted, certain parts of the game did seem rushed and environments seemed to suffer the most.

However, there was very little in the ending that was actually out of place. If an event or choice seemed out of place to you then perhaps you misinterpreted the circumstances surrounding that event. The First Enchanter's actions made sense to me and seemed like a resonable reaction entirely based on what was going on in the world (that is resonable for the story, not at all responable on a personal level). If you chose to ignore those elements and simply focused on Hawke's ability to kick Templar ass, then yeah, it was out of place. The issue is that most players are used to winning and aren't prepared to cope with hopeless situations.

And actually the whole "idol influenceing Meredith" thing was my least favorite part in the entire story. After building this beautiful monument to the follies of humanity they cheapen it with a magical item that "made her do it". As if without it then she wouldn't be nearly that unreasonable or overly zealous. I was really hoping she would be entirely autonomous. But no... they ended up blaming something fantastic. Sigh.

[da 2pacalypse]

Junri wrote...

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

By your logic, the game could end when you dealt with the Arishok. Just because he became the champion doesn't mean it justifies an ending. The ending is justified when all the questions are answered. Why is it that I still don't know why flemeth helped me.... why is it that I don't know what happens to Kirkwall?


You can't say they're just building a story... That is BS, if you want to build a trilogy, then start off with a bang and make me feel like I have to come back to the series. Origins easily beats DA2 in every single category. 

[RubiconI7]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I finished Dragon age 2 today, and as a huge fan of origins, all I can say is that Bioware had so much potential for the story of this game to be so much larger, so much bigger and have so much more impact. However they failed.

I finished the story with so many unanswered questions... I mean what was the point of putting Flemeth in the game, and have her talk about Morrigan, only to never show her face in the game again.  This is such a tease, I thought for sure she would have a bigger role in the story, but I was clearly wrong.  In addition to the flemeth issue, what was the point of meeting the gray wardens before defeating the Arishok if they don't have any significance in the story at all. They mention a "much greater threat" that they must attend to, but the story never follows up with that.  These issues are the reason I came away from the game feeling like Bioware put this thing together within a few months. I mean the levels are often used over and over and over again.  I just never feel like I'm getting anywhere, and when i finally feel like my character is "bad-ass", the game abruptly ends. 

Dont' get me wrong, I think the story was still pretty good, but for a Bioware game, I expected so much more.  when i defeated the Arishok I thought that hawke would have other challanges outside of kirkwall to face in order to keep the city safe (again, the Gray Wardens mention they need help).  The length of the game felt like it was half of the amount of time i spent in my origins playthroughs. I just wanted to end my rant by saying this: Bioware, please provide us with a good expansion atleast!

It is pretty obvious DA:II is a bridging game and will undoubtly lead to bigger things either in the form of DLCs or DAIII. They foreshadowed many things like you metioned. I speculate that the Wardens will probably come back and play big roles for DLCs while the Flemeth thing is an overarching story that is going to span long and wide.

I don't know if you noticed but there were hints as to where the next action is going to take place. Like how Leiliana became the right hand of the Divine and how Sandal was going to Orlais...

[Junri]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

By your logic, the game could end when you dealt with the Arishok. Just because he became the champion doesn't mean it justifies an ending. The ending is justified when all the questions are answered. Why is it that I still don't know why flemeth helped me.... why is it that I don't know what happens to Kirkwall?


You can't say they're just building a story... That is BS, if you want to build a trilogy, then start off with a bang and make me feel like I have to come back to the series. Origins easily beats DA2 in every single category. 

You are missing the point. He became the Champion when he beat the Ashirok, but in act 3 we are shown why the Champion is so important to Casssandra. The story is essentially why Hawke is so important in the grand scheme of things and that is what Cassandra wants to know and why she wants to find him/her even more. DA2's plot was just Varrick's story. I am assuming the next expansion will take place in real time with no exaggerations, but who knows what will BioWare do.

Look at this way, the Champion story, which is Varrick's story to Cassandra ended when Hawke defeated Merideth. Thats it. What happens afterward is another story to tell.

[da 2pacalypse]

Junri wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

By your logic, the game could end when you dealt with the Arishok. Just because he became the champion doesn't mean it justifies an ending. The ending is justified when all the questions are answered. Why is it that I still don't know why flemeth helped me.... why is it that I don't know what happens to Kirkwall?


You can't say they're just building a story... That is BS, if you want to build a trilogy, then start off with a bang and make me feel like I have to come back to the series. Origins easily beats DA2 in every single category. 

You are missing the point. He became the Champion when he beat the Ashirok, but in act 3 we are shown why the Champion is so important to Casssandra. The story is essentially why Hawke is so important in the grand scheme of things and that is what Cassandra wants to know and why she wants to find him/her even more. DA2's plot was just Varrick's story. I am assuming the next expansion will take place in real time with no exaggerations, but who knows what will BioWare do.

Look at this way, the Champion story, which is Varrick's story to Cassandra ended when Hawke defeated Merideth. Thats it. What happens afterward is another story to tell.

No, I'm not missing the point. I understand everything you just said. I just don't understand why Bioware would make an entire game about this. This story could have been done in an expansion pack for origins. The price tag of $60 is not justified in my opinion because all this game did was tease a bunch of awesome things, and then it just abruptly ended.  None of my questions from origins were answered, and I was just left scratching my head wondering why the occurances of the things that just happend even took place.

[Junri]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

.... 

.... 

You are missing the point. He became the Champion when he beat the Ashirok, but in act 3 we are shown why the Champion is so important to Casssandra. The story is essentially why Hawke is so important in the grand scheme of things and that is what Cassandra wants to know and why she wants to find him/her even more. DA2's plot was just Varrick's story. I am assuming the next expansion will take place in real time with no exaggerations, but who knows what will BioWare do.

Look at this way, the Champion story, which is Varrick's story to Cassandra ended when Hawke defeated Merideth. Thats it. What happens afterward is another story to tell.

No, I'm not missing the point. I understand everything you just said. I just don't understand why Bioware would make an entire game about this. This story could have been done in an expansion pack for origins. The price tag of $60 is not justified in my opinion because all this game did was tease a bunch of awesome things, and then it just abruptly ended.  None of my questions from origins were answered, and I was just left scratching my head wondering why the occurances of the things that just happend even took place.

Well, yeah they did leave a cliffhanger, but the ending wasn't that abrupt. I assume its to sell more later. I am kind of disappointed with what they did, but I looked at it from another angle and I am still quite satisfied.. This game is telling a tale that is separate from Origins, yet at the same time using connections too. Our answers will eventually be answered BioWare, you've just got to hang on. We scratched our heads to what happened to our Warden and Morrigan in Origins, especially if you didn't do the Ultimate Sacrifice. I expect BioWare to leave us scratching our heads until they feel its time to reveal the grand scheme of Dragon Age. 

[da 2pacalypse]

I guess what I'm trying to say was that if Bioware was not planning to expand on the universe of Origins, then why tease it so much? I mean was it really necessary for Hawke to meet the Gray Wardens at the end of Act2? Was it really necessary for random characters to pop up out of nowhere only to say one line and leave? It's just not necessary. This game need to have more heart in it... and I don't think it did. when the game first released I was disapointed with the reviews and I thought they were unjustified, but now I see that reviewers were correct. Finishing this game does not give me a sense of accomplishment whatsoever.