67 réponses à ce sujet

[ken007]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Granted, certain parts of the game did seem rushed and environments seemed to suffer the most.

However, there was very little in the ending that was actually out of place. If an event or choice seemed out of place to you then perhaps you misinterpreted the circumstances surrounding that event. The First Enchanter's actions made sense to me and seemed like a resonable reaction entirely based on what was going on in the world (that is resonable for the story, not at all responable on a personal level). If you chose to ignore those elements and simply focused on Hawke's ability to kick Templar ass, then yeah, it was out of place. The issue is that most players are used to winning and aren't prepared to cope with hopeless situations.

And actually the whole "idol influenceing Meredith" thing was my least favorite part in the entire story. After building this beautiful monument to the follies of humanity they cheapen it with a magical item that "made her do it". As if without it then she wouldn't be nearly that unreasonable or overly zealous. I was really hoping she would be entirely autonomous. But no... they ended up blaming something fantastic. Sigh.

Don't think that because I said I roflstomped the templars that I don't know WHY he did it, I just don't agree with that reasoning. He did it because in the game we were supposed to be against overwhelming odds, I get that, but it doesn't help the believability of the situation when I roflstomp the templars and the 1. enchanter goes against what I percieved his character to be. Also I simply disagree with using blood magic, as if I was a character in the DA universe I would much rather die than use blood magic. All throughout the part where you are first introduced to him he seems like he doesn't approve of the rebels turning to blood magic, but he still decides to do it himself in the end and not only that but he takes it way way over the top. Was it really necessary to turn into a freaking monster, obsorbing all the dead mages and what did he accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Since in the end I killed him, the one who was supporting the mages... it was facepalm worthy. 

And you might be disappointed with the Meredith ending, but at least it was believable. You cannot deny that it makes sense that she became increasingly paranoid because of the idol. It makes sense even though you might have liked it better if she simply was THAT crazy. The part with the 1. enchanter does not make sense imo.

[ken007]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I guess what I'm trying to say was that if Bioware was not planning to expand on the universe of Origins, then why tease it so much? I mean was it really necessary for Hawke to meet the Gray Wardens at the end of Act2? Was it really necessary for random characters to pop up out of nowhere only to say one line and leave? It's just not necessary. This game need to have more heart in it... and I don't think it did. when the game first released I was disapointed with the reviews and I thought they were unjustified, but now I see that reviewers were correct. Finishing this game does not give me a sense of accomplishment whatsoever.

I don't see how a quick cameo can have that much an impact on your overall satisfaction of the game and justify less than good reviews. The grey wardens for instance were there to show that they are present in that area and to foreshadow a greater threat in the future. How is that bad exactly? We know the DA series will continue and bioware is treating it as such. Are you saying you aren't aware that there will most likely be a great evil to vanquish in the next DA game and that wardens will very likely be a part of that? If not then what is your problem with a warden cameo? Is it just because they were there and then they were gone as fast? 

[AlexXIV]

joejoe099 wrote...

alex is wrong, its YEARS later when varric is retelling hawk's story to the seeker, and both hawk and the warden have vanished, with the mages and templars at each other's throats. DA2, i'd like to see it as at least, more of a set up for DA3 where the magic flying **** hits the templar fan

I may be wrong, but keep in mind DA2 is Varric's story. He tells what he wants to tell. We know Hawke left Kirkwall then time jump to the interrogation +3 years. For all we know DA3 could cover the 3 years before the interrogation. I hope not, mind you, since waiting for the conclusion of this story for 6 years (DA4) is not really something I'd be looking for.

Or in DA3 we only get told the important parts. Starting with the prologue telling why Hawke left and where to, etc. And then you start the game either when the seeker found Hawke or while they are still looking. We are not even sure if Hawke wants to be found by the seekers at all. Or maybe Hawke is looking for the Warden somewhere or the Warden for Hawke ... everything is possible I guess.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Yep, DA2 had quite a bit of potential, and a lot of it went to waste with bad storylines. I think a lot of it could be attributed to 11th-hour shoe-ins, and/or one too many rewrites.

I would say more, but it's late and I'm no longer running on all cylinders...

[Baelyn]

Anyone else stop reading when he said he beat the entire game with all side quests in under 10 hours? Right.

[Unichrone]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I finished Dragon age 2 today, and as a huge fan of origins, all I can say is that Bioware had so much potential for the story of this game to be so much larger, so much bigger and have so much more impact. However they failed.

I finished the story with so many unanswered questions... I mean what was the point of putting Flemeth in the game, and have her talk about Morrigan, only to never show her face in the game again.  This is such a tease, I thought for sure she would have a bigger role in the story, but I was clearly wrong.  In addition to the flemeth issue, what was the point of meeting the gray wardens before defeating the Arishok if they don't have any significance in the story at all. They mention a "much greater threat" that they must attend to, but the story never follows up with that.  These issues are the reason I came away from the game feeling like Bioware put this thing together within a few months. I mean the levels are often used over and over and over again.  I just never feel like I'm getting anywhere, and when i finally feel like my character is "bad-ass", the game abruptly ends. 

Dont' get me wrong, I think the story was still pretty good, but for a Bioware game, I expected so much more.  when i defeated the Arishok I thought that hawke would have other challanges outside of kirkwall to face in order to keep the city safe (again, the Gray Wardens mention they need help).  The length of the game felt like it was half of the amount of time i spent in my origins playthroughs. I just wanted to end my rant by saying this: Bioware, please provide us with a good expansion atleast!

You mean you were dissapointed with this game because it was a middle chapter and not the final chapter that you were hoping for?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree entirely with everything you said. Everything you hated, I loved. Every bit of it. For my counter arguement, just take your own an invert it.

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  
This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential, although most people are unable to articulate exactly what bothers them about it.  And I'm too lazy to do it for them.  

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  

Opinion.

This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential

Opinion.

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

Opinion.

Also many people would disagree with everything you said. Its up to preference. Some like it; some hate it. C'est la vie.

[Capeo]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

Wait.  People are still arguing with this guy after a ridiculous statement like that?  Finishing the game and all the sidequests in 10 hours is effing impossible.  I just beat it tonight for the and it took 59 hours. 

[Capeo]

Baelyn wrote...

Anyone else stop reading when he said he beat the entire game with all side quests in under 10 hours? Right.

LOL.  Yes, I did.  That's why I didn't see your post or else I wouldn't have repeated what you said like two posts below yours.

[Unichrone]

Baelyn wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  

Opinion.

This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential

Opinion.

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

Opinion.

Also many people would disagree with everything you said. Its up to preference. Some like it; some hate it. C'est la vie.

Opinion.  The magic word, and the last bastion of the one with a view so fragile they have to point out that the view of their opponent is exactly that, a view.  QQ.

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  

Opinion.

This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential

Opinion.

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

Opinion.

Also many people would disagree with everything you said. Its up to preference. Some like it; some hate it. C'est la vie.

Opinion.  The magic word, and the last bastion of the one with a view so fragile they have to point out that the view of their opponent is exactly that, a view.  QQ.

Care for me to direct you to paragraph after paragraph I have written in other threads defending my position on Dragon Age 2 as a great game? Nice try.

[Unichrone]

Baelyn wrote...

I can't let other people have opinions without pointing out the fact that they're opinions, because I'm too insecure to sustain valid criticism of the company that I love to worship and indeed fellate.  

Now here's a random french phrase to validate myself.

Take a look at one of the various examples of squandered opportunities.  

http://social.biowar...4/index/6662604
Is this opinion too?

Modifié par Unichrone, 20 mars 2011 - 02:47 .

[da 2pacalypse]

Capeo wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

I beat the game and did ever single side quest within 10 hours. This is not what a bioware game is.  I've never been disapointed with a bioware game like this.  I expected so many more answers for everything that was shown to me, however the game just end abruptly.  How is an unexpected ending a good thing?

Wait.  People are still arguing with this guy after a ridiculous statement like that?  Finishing the game and all the sidequests in 10 hours is effing impossible.  I just beat it tonight for the and it took 59 hours. 

Okay, I made an over-exageration.... but what I'm trying to say is that the game is way too short... Origins makes this game look like its b*tch lol

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

I can't let other people have opinions without pointing out the fact that they're opinions, because I'm too insecure to sustain valid criticism of the company that I love to worship and indeed fellate.  

Now here's a random french phrase to validate myself.

Take a look at one of the various examples of squandered opportunities.  

http://social.biowar...4/index/6662604
Is this opinion too?

I'm not going to get into a "bash" debate with you like you are obviously trying to start with snide remarks. You already said you are too lazy to explain your opinion so we'll leave it at that.

And you cite a bug? Thats laughable. Almost ALL games have bugs on release.

[Beaynid]

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

By your logic, the game could end when you dealt with the Arishok. Just because he became the champion doesn't mean it justifies an ending. The ending is justified when all the questions are answered. Why is it that I still don't know why flemeth helped me.... why is it that I don't know what happens to Kirkwall?


You can't say they're just building a story... That is BS, if you want to build a trilogy, then start off with a bang and make me feel like I have to come back to the series. Origins easily beats DA2 in every single category. 

i can answer about flemeth, she helped you for 2 reasons.  One she needed a courier to deliver her package. and two, she could tell you would be the catalyst of change where you were heading and flemeth either likes change, sowing chaos, or felt that the change you could do would be the most beneficial to her and her plans.  thats why she helped you.   she helped the warden for somewhat similar reasons, it helps her and could further what she was planning by doing so.
Flemeth is motivated by her own purpose and she does what she does to further it. 

[MKDAWUSS]

I would have found the story to be a lot better if Act II was the core of the game. The Qunari could have still provided the Chantry-splitting dynamic. People join the Qun, and others rethink their stance on the Qunari. The Chantry doesn't like this, and before you know it, you have a Holy War between the Chantry and the Qunari. The Chant of Light vs. the Qun.

[C9316]

I would've liked an open war with the Qunari myself. You know full legions of qunari laying siege to the city of Kirkwall with only the underdog Hawke leading an army of makeshift soldiers, guards, mages, and templars against this greater threat. Oh and was a lavish ceremony commemorating my rise to power to much to ask? I mean Meredith saying "Hurr Durr we has a no champion." completely ruins the rise to power.

[Unichrone]

Baelyn wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

I can't let other people have opinions without pointing out the fact that they're opinions, because I'm too insecure to sustain valid criticism of the company that I love to worship and indeed fellate.  

Now here's a random french phrase to validate myself.

Take a look at one of the various examples of squandered opportunities.  

http://social.biowar...4/index/6662604
Is this opinion too?

I'm not going to get into a "bash" debate with you like you are obviously trying to start with snide remarks. You already said you are too lazy to explain your opinion so we'll leave it at that.

And you cite a bug? Thats laughable. Almost ALL games have bugs on release.

I had no beef with you until you came in with your loyal damage control kit.  If you act like a jerk you don't get the luxury of blaming someone when they return the favor.  If you don't want people to become belligerent with you, offer your opinion in a more constructive way.  "Well, I just don't agree with that, and here's why" is a much better opening line than "These are just opinions and all the other opinions disagree with your inferior opinion."  
I feel like now I should say something in Koine Greek to demonstrate that I'm intelligent.  

Let's start all over, shall we?  

Buggy bug is not just a bug.  It is a lore-breaking bug.  A LORE-breaking bug, something extremely uncommon in video games.  I understand that games have bugs, but Dragon Age 2 has literally hundreds of them, many of which make the game unplayable.  Go to the PC section and you will see reports of widespread problems, the majority of which are particularly nasty.  Respeccing slows your attack down so much you cannot defeat bosses.  This is unheard of and unacceptable.  The Merril jumbling of cutscenes is absolutely ground-breaking in development failures.  If you go here ( http://social.biowar...index/6660975/2 ) you can see lots of sensible, irrefutable criticisms on the quest involving Hawke's mother, and especially the removal of choice and substantial consequences in DAII.  

I'm not saying I didn't like the game, because I did.  But it is extremely inefficient, and sub-par compared to other works of BioWare.  It is to be expected, as DA2 did not have nearly the dev time that DAO did.  But for every good thing you can muster to say about this game, there are countless answers and counter-points to it.  That is squandered potential.  

If you disagree that's fine, and that's the great thing about the internet.  You're allowed to be wrong and not be punished.  

[Capeo]

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  
This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential, although most people are unable to articulate exactly what bothers them about it.  And I'm too lazy to do it for them.  

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

You say suck and I say the story in DA2 blows away Origins.  Origins had the most simplistic, seen it a million times, fantasy story you could ever conceive except where it involved Loghain.  For the most part it was more bland than bland in my opinion.  DA2 involves better questions, more interesting motivations and sets up scenarios that are far more socially and politically relevant and thus, to me, far more involving.  I didn't find it to "fizzle out" at all.  It left Thedas in the potential throes of a massive war.  It brought together a host of character threads from Origins and Awakening.  Flemeth and Morigan are still out there trying to raise an Old God.  DA3 is brimming with possibilities.  I personally enjoy stories far more when the drama is human and messy and unclear rather than the more typical fantasy stories where motivations are cleay defined as evil and good.  That's why the Blight bored me in DAO and the machinations of Loghain kept me far more interested.

[Baelyn]

C9316 wrote...

I would've liked an open war with the Qunari myself. You know full legions of qunari laying siege to the city of Kirkwall with only the underdog Hawke leading an army of makeshift soldiers, guards, mages, and templars against this greater threat. Oh and was a lavish ceremony commemorating my rise to power to much to ask? I mean Meredith saying "Hurr Durr we has a no champion." completely ruins the rise to power.

I was expecting something like this too. It would have been awesome to have been presented the Champion armor in a ceremony commemorating your deeds and officially deeming you Champion instead of just getting them as drops in random quests. Would have definitely made the rise to power feel much more epic.

And I am quite sure we will see an all out war with the Qunari at some point...just not yet.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

As I described it "It's a 40 hour long teaser trailer."

[MKDAWUSS]

Capeo wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  
This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential, although most people are unable to articulate exactly what bothers them about it.  And I'm too lazy to do it for them.  

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

You say suck and I say the story in DA2 blows away Origins.  Origins had the most simplistic, seen it a million times, fantasy story you could ever conceive except where it involved Loghain.  For the most part it was more bland than bland in my opinion.  DA2 involves better questions, more interesting motivations and sets up scenarios that are far more socially and politically relevant and thus, to me, far more involving.  I didn't find it to "fizzle out" at all.  It left Thedas in the potential throes of a massive war.  It brought together a host of character threads from Origins and Awakening.  Flemeth and Morigan are still out there trying to raise an Old God.  DA3 is brimming with possibilities.  I personally enjoy stories far more when the drama is human and messy and unclear rather than the more typical fantasy stories where motivations are cleay defined as evil and good.  That's why the Blight bored me in DAO and the machinations of Loghain kept me far more interested.

While I agree that the Throne of Ferelden was the more interesting storyline of DAO (and the rest was a run-of-the-mill RPG), DAO still had a better storyline overall than DA2. A lot of DA2's story could be described as "psychedelic" IMO. I guess that may have been due to the fact that I wanted more Loghain less demons, but there ya go...

[C9316]

Baelyn wrote...

C9316 wrote...

I would've liked an open war with the Qunari myself. You know full legions of qunari laying siege to the city of Kirkwall with only the underdog Hawke leading an army of makeshift soldiers, guards, mages, and templars against this greater threat. Oh and was a lavish ceremony commemorating my rise to power to much to ask? I mean Meredith saying "Hurr Durr we has a no champion." completely ruins the rise to power.

I was expecting something like this too. It would have been awesome to have been presented the Champion armor in a ceremony commemorating your deeds and officially deeming you Champion instead of just getting them as drops in random quests. Would have definitely made the rise to power feel much more epic.

And I am quite sure we will see an all out war with the Qunari at some point...just not yet.

I don't even think the qunari will even be all that important in DA3, for one Alistair says there are problems in Orlais, Bodahn and Sandal are going to Orlais, and the headquarters and the divine are in Orlais. If anything DA3 will just be a continuation of the Magic/Chantry conflict.