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[da 2pacalypse]

Beaynid wrote...

da 2pacalypse wrote...

Junri wrote...

I think how the way the game ended was completely justified. The story was how the Champion of Kirkwall became the champion and how he got there and it accomplished that. That's it. The circle-templar conflict is irrelevant. The only thing that is important is who Hawke is and how s/he got to the influential position of being Champion of Kirkwall. BioWare even stated that was what the main plot of the story was about.

I am assuming that the Circle-Templar conflict will be resolved in an expansion or several expansions and DA3 will be about a different protagonist all together.

By your logic, the game could end when you dealt with the Arishok. Just because he became the champion doesn't mean it justifies an ending. The ending is justified when all the questions are answered. Why is it that I still don't know why flemeth helped me.... why is it that I don't know what happens to Kirkwall?


You can't say they're just building a story... That is BS, if you want to build a trilogy, then start off with a bang and make me feel like I have to come back to the series. Origins easily beats DA2 in every single category. 

i can answer about flemeth, she helped you for 2 reasons.  One she needed a courier to deliver her package. and two, she could tell you would be the catalyst of change where you were heading and flemeth either likes change, sowing chaos, or felt that the change you could do would be the most beneficial to her and her plans.  thats why she helped you.   she helped the warden for somewhat similar reasons, it helps her and could further what she was planning by doing so.
Flemeth is motivated by her own purpose and she does what she does to further it. 

So why completely ignore her and Morrigan's story?

[Unichrone]

Capeo wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Just because it's a middle chapter doesn't give it an excuse to suck.  
This game certainly does house mounds of squandered potential, although most people are unable to articulate exactly what bothers them about it.  And I'm too lazy to do it for them.  

There are several elements, both gameplay-wise and story-wise that get me excited, and then fizzle out.  It is extremely discouraging.  

You say suck and I say the story in DA2 blows away Origins.  Origins had the most simplistic, seen it a million times, fantasy story you could ever conceive except where it involved Loghain.  For the most part it was more bland than bland in my opinion.  DA2 involves better questions, more interesting motivations and sets up scenarios that are far more socially and politically relevant and thus, to me, far more involving.  I didn't find it to "fizzle out" at all.  It left Thedas in the potential throes of a massive war.  It brought together a host of character threads from Origins and Awakening.  Flemeth and Morigan are still out there trying to raise an Old God.  DA3 is brimming with possibilities.  I personally enjoy stories far more when the drama is human and messy and unclear rather than the more typical fantasy stories where motivations are cleay defined as evil and good.  That's why the Blight bored me in DAO and the machinations of Loghain kept me far more interested.

I won't deny the fact that my opinion is undoubtedly skewed at least a little-- the problems with the PC version of this game are really sucking some of the fun out for me.  

I simply don't agree that DA:O is a cliche', simplistic story.  I would agree wholeheartedly that it includes some staples, dareIsay simplistic elements.  But there are several centerpieces that are truly stunning.  Broodmother, and everything that goes with it, including the whole element of what the Darkspawn blood does to females, was utterly unexpected and chilling.  I agree that DA2 has opened the door for potential in DA3, but I would have to also point out that any game can do that fairly easily, including the original Red Steel for Wii.  

Modifié par Unichrone, 20 mars 2011 - 03:18 .

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...


I had no beef with you until you came in with your loyal damage control kit.  If you act like a jerk you don't get the luxury of blaming someone when they return the favor.  If you don't want people to become belligerent with you, offer your opinion in a more constructive way.  "Well, I just don't agree with that, and here's why" is a much better opening line than "These are just opinions and all the other opinions disagree with your inferior opinion."  
I feel like now I should say something in Koine Greek to demonstrate that I'm intelligent.  

I'm sorry but I still don't see how I came across as acting like a jerk. Simply stating that someone who continually goes into threads and posts very negative "this game sucks" "welcome to the crap that is DA2" (paraphrasing obviously) is only stating their opinions and not actual fact is hardly being a jerk. But if you sincerely took my post as being a jerk that I apologize that you saw it that way and would ask you to consider that my intention was not to come off as such.

Buggy bug is not just a bug.  It is a lore-breaking bug.  A LORE-breaking bug, something extremely uncommon in video games.  I understand that games have bugs, but Dragon Age 2 has literally hundreds of them, many of which make the game unplayable.  Go to the PC section and you will see reports of widespread problems, the majority of which are particularly nasty.  Respeccing slows your attack down so much you cannot defeat bosses.  This is unheard of and unacceptable.  The Merril jumbling of cutscenes is absolutely ground-breaking in development failures.  If you go here ( http://social.biowar...index/6660975/2 ) you can see lots of sensible, irrefutable criticisms on the quest involving Hawke's mother, and especially the removal of choice and substantial consequences in DAII.  

To avoid spamming you can read my posts in this thread concerning choice.

http://social.biowar...32495/6#6660342

There are alot of posts from me in there concerning all manners of criticism of the game.

As far as bugs, I'm not saying that DA2 is perfect. Was it rushed? Yes most likely. Am I going to hold this against the game? No. Not at least until I see how they handle this. They have already released one patch and have stated several times they are working to resolve the known bugs. They promised more support on DA2 than DA:O so we will see how that plays out. I also don't think the Merrill bug is lore breaking. Sure it may spoil the outcome of one quest and that really sucks but I would hardly say it breaks the game lore.

 You're allowed to be wrong and not be punished.  

Here you go again. This is what bothers me. There is no use debating someone with this view of something. Because I don't agree with you, I'm automatically wrong. This is the exact reason I felt it necessary to point out that what you say regarding the game being good/bad is purely opinion and personal taste. You can't prove I am wrong about the game being great in the same way I can't prove to you that you are wrong in saying that the game doesn't live up to its potential. I think it does as do many others. Don't invalidate others point of view because they don't share yours. I have no problem with you thinking the way you (and others) do about not liking the game. I mean sheesh thats why I come here, to discuss with people. I like hearing others opinions and defending my own. But oh well.

Also could you quote some Koine? That'd be awesome. I took 2 years of it in college!

[Unichrone]

Η τελευταία πρέπει να είναι η πρώτη

Did you use Mounce?

EDIT:

Don't invalidate others point of view because they don't share yours.

Wait a second, isn't that exactly what you did from the very beginning?  

Opinion.  Opinion.  Opinion.  Everyone disagrees with your opinion, lol!

Modifié par Unichrone, 20 mars 2011 - 03:29 .

[Unichrone]

Baelyn wrote...

. But if you sincerely took my post as being a jerk that I apologize that you saw it that way and would ask you to consider that my intention was not to come off as such.

Listen, man... you really shouldn't apologize. I did consider it a personal attack, but honestly you shouldn't worry about it. In all honesty I am a douchebag, and I tend to get douchy about things that really don't matter. ...like video games. If you can pop me in the mouth go for it. I am impulsive, inconsiderate, and pretty self-centered. Probably why I'm always right.

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Η τελευταία πρέπει να είναι η πρώτη

Did you use Mounce?

EDIT:

Don't invalidate others point of view because they don't share yours.

Wait a second, isn't that exactly what you did from the very beginning?  

Opinion.  Opinion.  Opinion.  Everyone disagrees with your opinion, lol!

No, that is not what I did. I pointed out that it was a point of view. Not right or wrong. In addition, I made a point that although you may feel that way there are many others that feel differently and actually think the game lived up to (and exceeded) its potential. I never said anything about everyone disagreeing with you. Judging from the amount of threads on the forum about their dislikes of DA2 it would be idiotic to state that you are alone in your opinion. 

Where as saying that my opinion is wrong and that I can be wrong without being punished is invalidating my point of view and all those of people that agree with me.

And no...I studied it under Dr. Gutierrez at Liberty University.

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

. But if you sincerely took my post as being a jerk that I apologize that you saw it that way and would ask you to consider that my intention was not to come off as such.

Listen, man... you really shouldn't apologize. I did consider it a personal attack, but honestly you shouldn't worry about it. In all honesty I am a douchebag, and I tend to get douchy about things that really don't matter. ...like video games. If you can pop me in the mouth go for it. I am impulsive, inconsiderate, and pretty self-centered. Probably why I'm always right.

I really did lol a bit.

I apologize because regardless of who you are thats who I am. ;-)

[Unichrone]

Baelyn wrote...

Unichrone wrote...

Η τελευταία πρέπει να είναι η πρώτη

Did you use Mounce?

EDIT:

Don't invalidate others point of view because they don't share yours.

Wait a second, isn't that exactly what you did from the very beginning?  

Opinion.  Opinion.  Opinion.  Everyone disagrees with your opinion, lol!

No, that is not what I did. I pointed out that it was a point of view. Not right or wrong. In addition, I made a point that although you may feel that way there are many others that feel differently and actually think the game lived up to (and exceeded) its potential. I never said anything about everyone disagreeing with you. Judging from the amount of threads on the forum about their dislikes of DA2 it would be idiotic to state that you are alone in your opinion. 

Where as saying that my opinion is wrong and that I can be wrong without being punished is invalidating my point of view and all those of people that agree with me.

And no...I studied it under Dr. Gutierrez at Liberty University.

Well, I sincerely apologize.  My little quib about being wrong and being okay was seriously only in jest.  Like I said, I'm a punk more often than not, and I tend to thrash people who I perceive to be in my way.  My perception is influenced by foreign variables, more often than not having nothing to do with the examined subject matter, giving me an unpredictable and generally unpleasant disposition.  I do believe that even in an unslanted, unbiased climate we can point out some real problematic elements in Dragon Age 2.  But I enjoy the game, and can understand perfectly why most people would be more than happy to overlook such things.  

[TheLastAwakening]

I just finished an hour ago, and I have to say I agree. However, there are a lot of foreshadowing that I am curious about. Plus, I finally allowed myself to come to the spoiler forum and it seems that I missed out on many things also, for one I did not even know Carver could be a warden. My biggest disappointment is that the story is too linear despite what my Hawke tries to do an alternative version of the same outcome is still very likely.

[Baelyn]

Unichrone wrote...

Well, I sincerely apologize.  My little quib about being wrong and being okay was seriously only in jest.  Like I said, I'm a punk more often than not, and I tend to thrash people who I perceive to be in my way.  My perception is influenced by foreign variables, more often than not having nothing to do with the examined subject matter, giving me an unpredictable and generally unpleasant disposition.  I do believe that even in an unslanted, unbiased climate we can point out some real problematic elements in Dragon Age 2.  But I enjoy the game, and can understand perfectly why most people would be more than happy to overlook such things.  

I can truly say I agree with everything you said here.

[da 2pacalypse]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

I just finished an hour ago, and I have to say I agree. However, there are a lot of foreshadowing that I am curious about. Plus, I finally allowed myself to come to the spoiler forum and it seems that I missed out on many things also, for one I did not even know Carver could be a warden. My biggest disappointment is that the story is too linear despite what my Hawke tries to do an alternative version of the same outcome is still very likely.

Exactly, but foreshadowing doesn't make a game good. Yes, it does make the series good... however I would not give this game anything more than 8/10.

[Baelyn]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

I just finished an hour ago, and I have to say I agree. However, there are a lot of foreshadowing that I am curious about. Plus, I finally allowed myself to come to the spoiler forum and it seems that I missed out on many things also, for one I did not even know Carver could be a warden. My biggest disappointment is that the story is too linear despite what my Hawke tries to do an alternative version of the same outcome is still very likely.

I agree. I also didn't know anything about Carver (or Bethany) being able to become a warden. Though I think this is what they were shooting for to try to add to some replay value to the game.

It is linear and I can understand why some don't like it. But I believe for the type of story they are trying to tell there really is no other way. Personally it doesn't bother me as I enjoyed the story being told. 

[Noatz]

Unichrone wrote...

I simply don't agree that DA:O is a cliche', simplistic story.  I would agree wholeheartedly that it includes some staples, dareIsay simplistic elements.  But there are several centerpieces that are truly stunning.  Broodmother, and everything that goes with it, including the whole element of what the Darkspawn blood does to females, was utterly unexpected and chilling.  I agree that DA2 has opened the door for potential in DA3, but I would have to also point out that any game can do that fairly easily, including the original Red Steel for Wii.  

There is a difference between having good set piece moments and rendering them into an overall interesting plot. There are parts of Origins I like as much as anything in DA2, such as the entire quest in Orzammar-Deep Roads-Anvil of the Void, the problem was it was part of a fairly generic story which you can more or less predict the outcome of as soon as you leave Flemeth's hut with your bag full of treaties, prophecy and heroic inevitability. Same goes for Mass Effect in which you know from early on that it will end with you clobbering Saren upside the head. You have no early clues as to what Hawke will actually do/be a part of to cause the situation in the framing scenario, and there are no defined pantomime villains popping up effectively throwing banana skins under your feet every 5 minutes. Maybe this is what people don't like about it, but I see it as a strength.

[Capeo]

Unichrone wrote...

I won't deny the fact that my opinion is undoubtedly skewed at least a little-- the problems with the PC version of this game are really sucking some of the fun out for me.  

I simply don't agree that DA:O is a cliche', simplistic story.  I would agree wholeheartedly that it includes some staples, dareIsay simplistic elements.  But there are several centerpieces that are truly stunning.  Broodmother, and everything that goes with it, including the whole element of what the Darkspawn blood does to females, was utterly unexpected and chilling.  I agree that DA2 has opened the door for potential in DA3, but I would have to also point out that any game can do that fairly easily, including the original Red Steel for Wii.  

Ah, I wasn't aware the PC version was problematic.  I played it on the PS3 and it was silky smooth.  No issues in that regard. 

I would also agree that the lead up to the Broodmother was great in DAO.  One of the best parts of the game.  I personally think the best plot thread was Nature of the Beast though.  Again, because it was messy.  You could make an argument for either choice.  The rest of DAO?  Not so much.  But in the end I'd argue how is not simplistic?  None of your choices really matter at all.  The end = you killing the Archdemon and saving the world.  At least in DA2 you're forced to choose sides.

[Capeo]

Noatz wrote...

There is a difference between having good set piece moments and rendering them into an overall interesting plot. There are parts of Origins I like as much as anything in DA2, such as the entire quest in Orzammar-Deep Roads-Anvil of the Void, the problem was it was part of a fairly generic story which you can more or less predict the outcome of as soon as you leave Flemeth's hut with your bag full of treaties, prophecy and heroic inevitability. Same goes for Mass Effect in which you know from early on that it will end with you clobbering Saren upside the head. You have no early clues as to what Hawke will actually do/be a part of to cause the situation in the framing scenario, and there are no defined pantomime villains popping up effectively throwing banana skins under your feet every 5 minutes. Maybe this is what people don't like about it, but I see it as a strength.

Exactly.  I never fely like I had a grasp of how things were going to turn out.  That's what kept driving me to play.

[Greta13]

I enjoyed DA2 a lot, but some thing seemed to be missing. Many valid points where mentioned, but it seems to me the DA2 would have served best if it was an expansion for Origins. DA3 will be epic, after DA2 they have a whole lot of material to expand upon. I did enjoy Origins more. After my second playthrough of DA2 I felt no inclination to start another playthrough, where as in Origins I played about seven or eight times. DA2 felt rushed, and I think Bioware should have worked on it longer, I would have been fine with waiting as long as needed IF the end result was improved. If DA3 takes twice as long as DA2, so be it. But this is just my opinion

[Baelyn]

Greta13 wrote...
 
DA2 felt rushed, and I think Bioware should have worked on it longer, I would have been fine with waiting as long as needed IF the end result was improved. If DA3 takes twice as long as DA2, so be it. But this is just my opinion

You may have, but would EA? Thats the ultimate end. Obviously Bioware can't come out and say "oh its rushed because EA made us do it." Unfortunately they are at the whim of EA. And although some of the bugs and such could have been fixed with some more time I believe they did very well with what they were given.

[da 2pacalypse]

Baelyn wrote...

Greta13 wrote...
 
DA2 felt rushed, and I think Bioware should have worked on it longer, I would have been fine with waiting as long as needed IF the end result was improved. If DA3 takes twice as long as DA2, so be it. But this is just my opinion

You may have, but would EA? Thats the ultimate end. Obviously Bioware can't come out and say "oh its rushed because EA made us do it." Unfortunately they are at the whim of EA. And although some of the bugs and such could have been fixed with some more time I believe they did very well with what they were given.

Yeah, the blame is probably going to be put on EA here.... In my opinion this should have been delayed until the summer. But I guess they didn't want to compete with Brink and Haunted.