69 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

lsdiskewl, who were you before you got banned, anyway?

[RetryAgain]

 "Presuming that I retain what I know now for this do-over, the awareness of the
reuse of areas is probably one of the key things -- using that more artfully
would certainly be key."

Did ML basically just admit that if he had the opprotunity, he would change the AWARENESS of the reuse of areas? 
WRONG ANSWER! The correct answer is: The reuse of areas, not the awareness of it. Idiot.

Sorry, that made me angry. It seems like they aren't trying to make a good game, but the illusion of one.

[Karazax]

djackson75 wrote...

Karazax wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Insom wrote...

The way it was handled was odd though. Hawke just takes out like 30 Templars easily and then it switches to this scene where Orsino flips out. If he waited a little longer everything would have been okay.

The big issue I would say is that in 'flipping out' Orsino claims to do this to spite Meredith....yet, all he managed to accomplish was give us an extra boss battle, without even taking out Meredith. This certainly had me go 'wtf' for a moment.

Exactly, we just destroyed a wave of templars, are for all effective purposes winning (in fact your party goes on to kill him, in addition to defeating the templars), so it kind of felt like a very illogical and forced event.  

Now if they had say a hundred templars attacking and the odds looked more hopeless, so he used blood magic to transform and kill them, and then we had to fight him, it might have come across better.  As it turned out, it just made the game feel like your decisions really didn't matter because either way you were lead to the same point.  That was the biggest problem I have with the way the game's story turned out.  Every act ends the same regardless of what path you take to get there.

I took it as, at the end of the day, when he used Blood Magic to turn into that huge abomination, he was doing it to prepare to go fight Merideth... but at that point, Hawke realized that the Mage leader was just as crazy as the Templar leader, and therefore they couldn't let him go out there and do his thing. It was either stop him right there, or let him loose and the slaughter gets even worse than it ended up being. Plus, when Hawke walks out into the courtyard, Merideth started the fight with him, so he didn't really have a choice at that point to avoid fighting her.

Yes, but that is a pretty big stretch in logic after he spent the whole game preaching about how all mages are not the same, and how the templar's were just doing a witch hunt as an excuse to persecute the mages.  With better cut scenes though it could have made sense.  For example he could have been in a completely different part of the map from the party, say the courtyard, and when the party walks out they see a cut scene where a bunch of templars swarm in and kill more mages, and before they can swarm Orsino he gives in to the blood magic to kill them all.  Then the party has to fight him.  The end result would be the same, but the execution would have been much more believeable.   With Meridith you had clues and lead up to make her change at least believeable, but Orsino's choice just really had a negative effect on my enjoyment as it seemed totally random and out of character especially after we just cleaned house on the last wave of templars with no problem.  

I just hate that no matter what you do leading up to the end of each act, the end result is the same, which makes the game feel very rail roaded and makes all the most important choices trivial.

[Vilegrim]

Il Divo wrote...

Good interview. I really liked his reply regarding how Orsino/Meredith were handled. And looking back, it actually makes alot of sense.

No it doesn't they where both evil because of magic, no human weaknesses or flaws, magic...may as well have had a fairy come down and declare them evil.  To clarify Mereditch was evil beacuse she made the idol of McGuffin Mcevil into a sword and Orsini was evil because he had known a blood mage.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 20 mars 2011 - 04:05 .

[Vilegrim]

RetryAgain wrote...

 "Presuming that I retain what I know now for this do-over, the awareness of the
reuse of areas is probably one of the key things -- using that more artfully
would certainly be key."

Did ML basically just admit that if he had the opprotunity, he would change the AWARENESS of the reuse of areas? 
WRONG ANSWER! The correct answer is: The reuse of areas, not the awareness of it. Idiot.

Sorry, that made me angry. It seems like they aren't trying to make a good game, but the illusion of one.

erm resuing tiles is fine? Most games do? they reuse areas (as in resources, but change the layout so you aren't AWARE they are)

[Edge2177]

1UP: Given that the Qunari sections in Act Two are being called some of the strongest in the game, would you extend it into Act Three given another opportunity? The Templar/Mage and Kirkwall/Qunari themes do mesh extremely well, and I'm wondering if that is something you would have tweaked given another chance.

ML: I'm quite happy with how [Act Three] turned out. I think that there is always the danger of muddying the water when you blend too many elements together. And yet, at the same time, I by no means think that the Qunari are finished in terms of Dragon Age storytelling. They do play an absolutely fascinating part, especially given their treatment of mages and their view of magic overall. And some reasonably dire predictions about magic overall. It's something we'll continue to explore. I mean, could it have worked to roll them into the third portion of the game? Absolutely. Did it work that they weren't there? I think so as well. You can do it either way, and it's just a matter of which choice we ended up making.

Mike foreshadows a little here, when the Qunari come to conquest the area they will force mages to slavery, binding human/elves, and others to be 'Sarebaas' very cool.

1UP: What can you say about DLC plans? Would it be more like Mass Effect, where it's Shepard either adding a party member, or taking an existing party member through a new quest? Or more like how Origins had some of that, but also DLC quests that were side-stories with a completely different cast of characters, or a quest where the Warden would be paired with new temporary party members rather than familiar ones?

ML: Absolutely. With Origins, we were being pretty experimental. DLC is still a pretty new beast, and figuring out exactly how it integrates with the game is something that, with Origins, we think led to becoming a pretty good success in being a franchise that tells the story of a world. We wanted to see the reactions to more experimental pieces like Leliana's Song; that provided a side story on a popular follower -- a very popular follower -- but not a story that directly involved your character. The takeaway, I think, is that people really liked the elements of deepening Leliana's story -- they loved that! But what they did not like was how their Warden was not included. Or things like how the loot you get might have been brought in, but not the XP or skills or so on and so forth. We kind of came away with the impression that consistency of experience is something that people are desiring -- more so than just additional storylines.

That's giving us more of a direction; I think for future DLC you'll be seeing very much a focus on Hawke and expanding his adventures -- whether it be across the timeline or extending into the future. But definitely things that stay central to the character that you've grown connected to, but still take some of those lessons like from Leiliana's Song -- adding to the followers, making sure they're incorporated or enhanced or deepened in some way -- is something that resonates really well. Especially because the kind of people pulling down DLC are people who are engaged with the story, or the party, or the history of the world, and they want to learn or know more; and maybe feel like they have this cool piece of knowledge that their friends might not know. It's like that fun little bit of trivia that you looked up just before the party.

Another hint here, DLC will likely be companion specific with Hawke involved. So delving into their backgrounds for Merrill, Isabela, Varric, etc. In the epilogue, Varric said how they stayed with Hawke for a time before leaving, it would also rationally include the romance character along for the ride.

Modifié par Edge2177, 20 mars 2011 - 04:21 .

[Vilegrim]

Edge2177 wrote...

1UP: Given that the Qunari sections in Act Two are being called some of the strongest in the game, would you extend it into Act Three given another opportunity? The Templar/Mage and Kirkwall/Qunari themes do mesh extremely well, and I'm wondering if that is something you would have tweaked given another chance.

ML: I'm quite happy with how [Act Three] turned out. I think that there is always the danger of muddying the water when you blend too many elements together. And yet, at the same time, I by no means think that the Qunari are finished in terms of Dragon Age storytelling. They do play an absolutely fascinating part, especially given their treatment of mages and their view of magic overall. And some reasonably dire predictions about magic overall. It's something we'll continue to explore. I mean, could it have worked to roll them into the third portion of the game? Absolutely. Did it work that they weren't there? I think so as well. You can do it either way, and it's just a matter of which choice we ended up making.

Mike foreshadows a little here, when the Qunari come to conquest the area they will force mages to slavery, binding human/elves, and others to be 'Sarebaas' very cool.

ah, add the Qun to religous movements that need to be obliterated, that leaves, what, Paragon worship, Old God worship and Elven animism as the only 3 that don't need to be destroyed.

[Edge2177]

1UP: Random last question: what part of the Dragon Age world is more interesting to explore, the Tevinter Imperium, or Orlais, or what?

ML: I think, probably, currently, that Orlais is more fascinating simply because we've seen more of it. We've seen more hints, heard more stories from Leliana, and Orlais has just teased us more. It's been more coquettish -- we've seen the ankle and we want to see what's above it. So to me, Orlais is the one that has a ton of draw and really will intrigue people. Because it is a fascinating culture, and similar to how the Qunari are very different from Ferelden or Kirkwall, Orlais offers up another slice of the world. And recall that I said that Dragon Age is about the world. So it's something that, I think people are rightfully intrigued by, and it's something that as a design team, intrigues us too.

Though, what's also interesting is to see how, every once in a while, people gloms on to how interesting Rivain is. It's where the Qunari invaded, and at least half of the Rivaini have converted to the Qun, which results in an interesting cultural situation. Also, pirates. So for me, Dragon Age's two core strengths are: on the gameplay side, it's about the party, working together, to achieve a kind of tactical mastery -- that's something that I think is key to the Dragon Age franchise. From a world perspective, these are living breathing countries to the point where I have a four-foot wide map of the continent hanging in my living room, and often find myself staring at different geographic regions going, "yeah, we can absolutely go there."

Last hint here, Orlais = future DA2/3 title likely either the expansion or the next part of the story.

Has Grey Wardens, Orlais politics, the Chantry, oh my!

The different direction, since Act 2 was tremendously successful, is they might even consider leaving the 'main' storyline along and persuing a strictly Arishok/Qunari story. That would be tremendously interesting!

Modifié par Edge2177, 20 mars 2011 - 04:26 .

[In Exile]

Insom wrote...

Something bugs me about the Orsino part. This guy is the First Enchanter of the circle, he's supposed to be better than that. These guys are supposed to be the most powerful guys in the circle with the willpower and leadership to resist anything. We saw Irving resist Uldred and demons in the fade in Ferelden and willingly give himself up to the Templars if it came to that.

That's the point, though. Orsino isn't Irving. He doesn't have his wisdom or political prowess. And Meredith isn't Gregoire. She doesn't have his firm hand and just outlook. Remember, when left to his own devices (the potential that some blood mages are free after witnessing a true horror) he doesn't choose to imprison anyone and overrules Cullen.

Part of the tragedy of DA2 is that better women (and men) wouldn't have failed.

[Junri]

That was a good read. At least we know where BioWare is heading and that direction seems to be a good one :S

[Foolsfolly]

You look at Meredith, and see her questioning her own beliefs at the very end, and you understand that no one really wanted it to come to this, and yet it did.

When did that happen? I don't remember that.

...unless it was during the fight. She was speaking a lot during that fight but AoE spells blocked the screen and I couldn't really hear anything other than the occasional odd word. I just assumed she was saying nonsense about being crazy possessed sword lady and nothing plot important.

[RPGamer13]

Mike Laidlaw mentions Orlais, but it doesn't interest me at all. It just sounds too "beourgois" to me.

Now, Rivain, it sounds like a place of adventure and excitement. He does mention it, but it sounds more like a sidebar and that he thinks it's less interesting and so, not many people would find it interesting.

[Satyricon331]

The interview just makes me sad. He seems to be happy with the anime direction they gave the rogues and warriors, and he takes his idea that the genre needs to adapt to new market demand in really strange directions. His idea that the DA games should vary in their gameplay each iteration, or nearly so, is really going to undermine DA. If you need to add life to the genre by varying up gameplay, it would make more sense to identify each niche and have a different sequence of games for each one (like Mass Effect for one, DA for another, etc.), since then consumers would know what to expect and could sort themselves. It would still allow for some change, but not as much as Laidlaw is implying. If you vary a single IP from game to game too much, you're just going to alienate people. They won't know what to expect, and they'll move to games and media that provide more consistently positive experiences.

Or, perhaps he's just providing a veneer of rationalization for the move from DAO to DA2, and plans to leave things largely in the neighborhood of DA2's gameplay, which he appears to prefer. If so then he might meet with some success, although it'd exclude me.  edit: Come to think of it, I don't know where customers with my tastes will go.  I guess I'm in an untapped market now.  Nobody's making profits off of me!

Modifié par Satyricon331, 20 mars 2011 - 05:01 .

[Anariel Theirin]

Gatt9 wrote...

ML: It
presents an intriguing thought experiment: is it viable to have a game that's
closer to Baldur's Gate 2 in terms of the raw mechanics and execution? I don't
think there's anything preventing it. However, I do think that, as a genre, if
RPGs can't evolve and can't change -- and I know people yell at me for daring
to use the word "evolve" -- but if they can't change or experiment,
then the genre itself is going to stagnate. Not only in terms of mechanics,
like in rehashes and stuff, which I think we mostly manage to avoid, but the
bigger problem is that if we don't have RPGs that present a different type of
experience, then we kind of encapsulate our potential audience to people who
enjoy just that experience, and we drive others away.

In of itself, that runs the
risk of genre death -- it becomes too referential or too reliant on people
understanding that STR means strength which feeds into accuracy which results
in damage done, and so on. You end up in a case where, the genre eventually
burns out, or falls flat, or becomes too risky to take any risks in
development, and so on and so forth, and that's not something I want to see
happen.

This is just so amazingly wrong on so many levels.

First his commentary about "Evolving", which would be fine if he had implemented some new form of gameplay. He didn't, the gameplay is approaching identical to that found in numerous other games. It's not evolving, it's shifting into some other form of game.

It can only "Evolve" when it implements something new. Such as the transition from personality-less NPC's to NPC's with personality that Baldur's Gate introduced.

Second, his whole bull about STR. If you're playing RPGs you know what that is, if you don't, you'll learn like everyone else did. If you're not interested, then you shouldn't be playing RPGs, they're not your kind of game. Taking out the mechanics that define a genre isn't improving it, it's just turning it into some other genre because you think it makes you more money.

Genre-death only occurs when a genre is abandoned, such as turning all of it's games into something else like Bioware is doing. RPG players will always know what the mechanics are, FPS player won't. Just like neither group is going to have a clue how to play a flightsim. Genre-death does not occur because of the Strength attribute.

Regardless, at least the article settles one portion of the debate. The decision to turn DAO into an action game was made long before there was feedback, so it had absolutely nothing to do with "Players not getting it".

I couldn't agree more with everything you just said.

Frankly, "evolving" the RPG genre into something unrecognizable isn't going to gain the series more fans, it's only going to result in them losing the loyal RPG fans who made the success of Origins possible.  I picked up DA2 wanting to play an RPG.  That's not what I got.  If DA3 comes out and I don't see the promise of it returning to its roots?  There's no way I'm buying it, regardless of how much I love the world or the lore.  DA2 disappointed me and left me completely unsatisfied as a consumer and a gamer.  I'd like to pretend it never happened.  If it looks like DA3 is going the same route, I won't be wasting my money again.  My time will be better spent on a fourth or fifth Origins playthrough.

[Denizen89]

I still don't think they handled Meredith or Orsino very well. Plus if thats the prologue then I am already pissed at hearing that. Why not make the game and worry about addons after the fact. Geez I hate the lets make a quick buck bs.

[Baelyn]

Foolsfolly wrote...

You look at Meredith, and see her questioning her own beliefs at the very end, and you understand that no one really wanted it to come to this, and yet it did.

When did that happen? I don't remember that.

...unless it was during the fight. She was speaking a lot during that fight but AoE spells blocked the screen and I couldn't really hear anything other than the occasional odd word. I just assumed she was saying nonsense about being crazy possessed sword lady and nothing plot important.

I'm assuming he is talking about the scene when you decide who to side with and she looks at you with desparation and says..."What then, Champion, would you have me do?"

Although this is not the very end, its the only thing I can think he would be referencing. And this particular scene really struck me as powerful...because I really did see truth and desparation in her eyes that she was trying to do the right thing.

[AtreiyaN7]

Thanks - good read.

[Baelyn]

In Exile wrote...

Insom wrote...

Something bugs me about the Orsino part. This guy is the First Enchanter of the circle, he's supposed to be better than that. These guys are supposed to be the most powerful guys in the circle with the willpower and leadership to resist anything. We saw Irving resist Uldred and demons in the fade in Ferelden and willingly give himself up to the Templars if it came to that.

That's the point, though. Orsino isn't Irving. He doesn't have his wisdom or political prowess. And Meredith isn't Gregoire. She doesn't have his firm hand and just outlook. Remember, when left to his own devices (the potential that some blood mages are free after witnessing a true horror) he doesn't choose to imprison anyone and overrules Cullen.

Part of the tragedy of DA2 is that better women (and men) wouldn't have failed.

Also the circumstances of the setting as well...

Kirkwall's political and economic status as a self contained "city-state" is just asking for some sort of revolt of power. Not to mention the history of the depths beneath Kirkwall. A veil so thin that even non-mages can be easily influenced by demons. Add that ontop of all its people/culture problems and a large mage population and you basically just sitting on a time bomb.

Similarly if this had happened in any other city it most likely wouldn't have come to this...

Who is to say that both Meredtih and Orsino weren't both being influenced heavily by the thin veil and eventually driven mad to the point of not being able to have the discernment on what is right and what is wrong.

[Foolsfolly]

If I was going to "tweak" anything, then probably some of the elements of pacing at the beginning of the game. The urgency of drawing you into the expedition would have been something that I would have looked at and re-structure the overall pacing of. Because I think some people felt a little bit detached because, frankly, it's not a game without a big looming evil dragon, demon, or demigod at the end; which creates an almost unexpected story mechanic, and one that I'm honestly very proud to have tried, and think we managed to break the mold with a reasonable degree of success.

The first act does need a better sense of urgency but DA2 didn't break this mold. The last big name game that broke that mold was GTA4 which had you play Niko Bellic an immigrant to Liberty City just trying to make his way in a new country. Sound familiar? GTA4 did the thing better too. Helping your cousin gets you indebted to a local goon which gets you into a large crime family...and it snowballs until it's cost Niko everything. It's a great story. Really loved that game.

But we didn't need some big dragon or demon looming over us, we just needed a better goal than "Save 50 gold."

It seems most people really dug Act 2 the most, and that is the act with a goal stated at the beginning of the act. "We've got to do something about the Qunari. Go speak with the Arishok." And the events spiral and get out of hand.

[moilami]

Junri wrote...

That was a good read. At least we know where BioWare is heading and that direction seems to be a good one :S

And where are they heading? I did not read the article because I have no trust of the company anymore and there was spoiler alert.