When I played this part and Orsino transformed into a monster I thought, "Gee, Thanks for nothing. You transforming does nothing as there are no enemies here so your transformation is useless aside from giving me more work to do." It also seemed strange he'd transform in a "safe" area. If he was surrounded by enemies and transformed I'd understand as he'd want to take down as many enemies as possible (e.g. suicide bomber), but to do it when his life wasn't in immediate danger... Shows extremely poor planning, after all he knew even before casting that it was "too dangerous" so he must have known that it was possible that he'd become some demonic monster that would endanger everything, not just his enemies..
Orsino using Blood Magic to become a Monster, thanks for nothing.
Débuté par
ngd1029
, mars 20 2011 12:52
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#2
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 12:56
Clonedzero
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i mean i can take orsino secretly studying blood magic since thats referenced and talked about in the game. i can understand him resorting to it in a desperate moment. i can understand him being overwhelmmed and accidently turning himself into a big monster / abomination thing. all that i will completely accept.
but like you said, he did it when everything was fine at that moment, if they busted down the doors with tons of templars and he did it there and then killed all of the templars and came after me in a rage, that would have been SO much better.
yeah, it was a bit awkward how that was done i completely agree.
but like you said, he did it when everything was fine at that moment, if they busted down the doors with tons of templars and he did it there and then killed all of the templars and came after me in a rage, that would have been SO much better.
yeah, it was a bit awkward how that was done i completely agree.
#3
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 12:59
Aigyl
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Orsino was done much better on the Templar side. He explicitly gives his connection to the serial killer and turns into a Harvester when he is the last man standing.
On the Mage side he was... odd.
On the Mage side he was... odd.
#4
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:36
Zing Freelancer
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Orsino was such a asspull.
Come on, all the talk about freeing mages when he himself supports the guy who turns your mother into a monster?
Then goes on and turns into a monster himself just to attack the only person who would stand by his side?
I wish I could pretend Dragon Age 2 never happened.
Come on, all the talk about freeing mages when he himself supports the guy who turns your mother into a monster?
Then goes on and turns into a monster himself just to attack the only person who would stand by his side?
I wish I could pretend Dragon Age 2 never happened.
#5
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:48
TheBlackBaron
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That whole sequence is a great big ball of terribleness and facepalm-inducing stupidity.
I prefer to imagine that the rampant use of blood magic in and around the tower by others somehow affected his defenses and allowed a demon to slip by and possess him.
I prefer to imagine that the rampant use of blood magic in and around the tower by others somehow affected his defenses and allowed a demon to slip by and possess him.
#6
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:52
PirateT138
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The whole encounter was poorly thought out/executed.
They used a recycled model (the Harvester from Amgarrak) that had no bearing on well...anything, there was no reason for him to use it, as mentioned earlier, and in general the whole blood mage thing was done TO DEATH. You couldn't spit without hitting a blood mage in this game. The fact that he DOES do it gives you every reason to want to pull a 360. The Templar were right, the mages are seriously dangerous and will do anything and hurt anyone (in some play-throughs your sister will be right there next to him).
I thought they were supposed to be rare, NOPE, apparently the demons in the fade are just lining up to service the mages in Kirkwall.
"Now serving #3645, step to the left to learn dark and forbidden secrets of blood magic in 15 minutes or less!"
They used a recycled model (the Harvester from Amgarrak) that had no bearing on well...anything, there was no reason for him to use it, as mentioned earlier, and in general the whole blood mage thing was done TO DEATH. You couldn't spit without hitting a blood mage in this game. The fact that he DOES do it gives you every reason to want to pull a 360. The Templar were right, the mages are seriously dangerous and will do anything and hurt anyone (in some play-throughs your sister will be right there next to him).
I thought they were supposed to be rare, NOPE, apparently the demons in the fade are just lining up to service the mages in Kirkwall.
"Now serving #3645, step to the left to learn dark and forbidden secrets of blood magic in 15 minutes or less!"
#7
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:54
Kriselia
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
That whole sequence is a great big ball of terribleness and facepalm-inducing stupidity.
I prefer to imagine that the rampant use of blood magic in and around the tower by others somehow affected his defenses and allowed a demon to slip by and possess him.
Hmm, actually, the Band of Three notes do mention that the extensive sacrifices made by the Tevinters under Kirkwall had weakened the Veil there to the point of demons being able to communicate with non-mages too.
Maybe Orsino really did snap from that.
#8
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:55
ExistsAlready
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"I'M GOING TO BE A BOSS WHETHER YOU WANT ME TO OR NOT THEY NEED TO RESUSE THE HARVESTER FROM GOLEMS OF AMGARRAK YOU DONT THINK THEY MADE TWO UNIQUE MODELS JUST FOR DLC DID YOU"
Modifié par ExistsAlready, 20 mars 2011 - 01:55 .
#9
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 01:56
TheBlackBaron
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Kriselia wrote...
TheBlackBaron wrote...
That whole sequence is a great big ball of terribleness and facepalm-inducing stupidity.
I prefer to imagine that the rampant use of blood magic in and around the tower by others somehow affected his defenses and allowed a demon to slip by and possess him.
Hmm, actually, the Band of Three notes do mention that the extensive sacrifices made by the Tevinters under Kirkwall had weakened the Veil there to the point of demons being able to communicate with non-mages too.
Maybe Orsino really did snap from that.
Yeah, that was one of the things I had in mind. IIRC they also note that the Kirkwall circle has a very troubled history, with much higher rates of blood magic use and tranquilization (*rimshot*) than other Circles.
#10
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:07
Soldatto Rosso
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In the pro-Mage playthrough, I think Orsino just went crazy with grief. All his mages had been slaughtered at that point, and his Circle was basically destroyed. He became enraged, and just transformed himself as a form of suicide. Kind of like "If I'm going down, I'm taking everyone with me" sort of thing.
It would've been nice if he'd done it when Meredith or other Templars were around, but oh well.
It would've been nice if he'd done it when Meredith or other Templars were around, but oh well.
Modifié par Soldatto Rosso, 20 mars 2011 - 02:08 .
#11
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:09
Kriselia
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
Kriselia wrote...
TheBlackBaron wrote...
That whole sequence is a great big ball of terribleness and facepalm-inducing stupidity.
I prefer to imagine that the rampant use of blood magic in and around the tower by others somehow affected his defenses and allowed a demon to slip by and possess him.
Hmm, actually, the Band of Three notes do mention that the extensive sacrifices made by the Tevinters under Kirkwall had weakened the Veil there to the point of demons being able to communicate with non-mages too.
Maybe Orsino really did snap from that.
Yeah, that was one of the things I had in mind. IIRC they also note that the Kirkwall circle has a very troubled history, with much higher rates of blood magic use and tranquilization (*rimshot*) than other Circles.
Wouldn't it be interesting if that was part of why so many templars there we complete psychos too? The whole city had been planned around maximum efficiency of blood sacrifices so you just know the whole place is messed up.
Maybe the circle should've trained a group of maleficar to mend tears in the Veil
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
#12
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:18
Baelyn
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You assume that he knew everything that was going with what Quentin had been doing.
Its quite possible that, while still shady, Quentin was not telling him all of what his "experiments" were really doing. For all we know he could have been telling Orsino that he was simply using dead bodies of homeless people from Darktown.
While this is still morbid it is no where near implying Orsino is wicked or malicious. While admittedly poorly done on the pro-mage side, it was still very easy for me to see his motivation. Most likely he thought he could control his transformatiion and use it to help you but clearly he wasn't able to. It wasn't like he sat there practicing Quentin's research, so there is no way for him to know for sure what it would do.
He was simply a broken, distrubed man that was trying to give the surviving mages a chance at escape by sacrificing himself.
And I'm not sure you paid attention to the story of Amgarrak with the cliffhanger at the end of the harvesters escaping the thaig. The importance of this in DA2 was to show that this art of making flesh golems was not lost in some old thaig in the Deep Roads. It was alive and well in Thedas and I dare say we will see its use again. Not some "excuse to re-use the model."
Its quite possible that, while still shady, Quentin was not telling him all of what his "experiments" were really doing. For all we know he could have been telling Orsino that he was simply using dead bodies of homeless people from Darktown.
While this is still morbid it is no where near implying Orsino is wicked or malicious. While admittedly poorly done on the pro-mage side, it was still very easy for me to see his motivation. Most likely he thought he could control his transformatiion and use it to help you but clearly he wasn't able to. It wasn't like he sat there practicing Quentin's research, so there is no way for him to know for sure what it would do.
He was simply a broken, distrubed man that was trying to give the surviving mages a chance at escape by sacrificing himself.
And I'm not sure you paid attention to the story of Amgarrak with the cliffhanger at the end of the harvesters escaping the thaig. The importance of this in DA2 was to show that this art of making flesh golems was not lost in some old thaig in the Deep Roads. It was alive and well in Thedas and I dare say we will see its use again. Not some "excuse to re-use the model."
Modifié par Baelyn, 20 mars 2011 - 02:19 .
#13
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:20
TheBlackBaron
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Kriselia wrote...
Wouldn't it be interesting if that was part of why so many templars there we complete psychos too? The whole city had been planned around maximum efficiency of blood sacrifices so you just know the whole place is messed up.
Maybe the circle should've trained a group of maleficar to mend tears in the Veil
...That's an interesting thought, actually. The Templars are already forcibly addicted to lyrium and display certain mage-like abilities as a result. Is there anything that actually says blood magic couldn't possibly boost them as well, along with all its nasty side effects?
#14
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:23
Jackel159357
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What I learnt from DA2 was that the People of Ferelden are far superior to that of the free marchers. Irving was tortured for days or weeks possibly and did not succumb to Uldred, While Orsinio breaks much more easily under pressure. Not to mention the captain of the Guard ending up being from ferelden as did the Champion.
#15
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:27
Kriselia
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TheBlackBaron wrote...
Kriselia wrote...
Wouldn't it be interesting if that was part of why so many templars there we complete psychos too? The whole city had been planned around maximum efficiency of blood sacrifices so you just know the whole place is messed up.
Maybe the circle should've trained a group of maleficar to mend tears in the Veil
...That's an interesting thought, actually. The Templars are already forcibly addicted to lyrium and display certain mage-like abilities as a result. Is there anything that actually says blood magic couldn't possibly boost them as well, along with all its nasty side effects?
Well, the dragon cultists of Haven had the rather blood magic-like Reaver abilities, not to mention the GW blood magic you can learn from Avernus.
Maybe one reason blood magic is forbidden is because it might actually give everyone somewhat mage-like abilities?
#16
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:28
Dante Angelo
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don't forget Cullen I was very suprised at how much he had changedJackel159357 wrote...
What I learnt from DA2 was that the People of Ferelden are far superior to that of the free marchers. Irving was tortured for days or weeks possibly and did not succumb to Uldred, While Orsinio breaks much more easily under pressure. Not to mention the captain of the Guard ending up being from ferelden as did the Champion.
#17
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 02:35
ken007
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Soldatto Rosso wrote...
In the pro-Mage playthrough, I think Orsino just went crazy with grief. All his mages had been slaughtered at that point, and his Circle was basically destroyed. He became enraged, and just transformed himself as a form of suicide. Kind of like "If I'm going down, I'm taking everyone with me" sort of thing.
It would've been nice if he'd done it when Meredith or other Templars were around, but oh well.
I didn't persieve it like that. It seemed to me he transformed because as he was babbling about, he was raging over that he thought the templars were toying with them and making it seem like they had a chance (as in winning) and then he transformed when there were no templars in sight and only the guys who helped him... yeah that seems logical. It is clear that bioware wanted a boss fight for all players regardless of who they sided with, but they neglected to fill in the plothole of why in the world Orsino would use blood magic when no templars were around. Not like bioware to be lazy.
#18
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 03:23
Jman5
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Dante Angelo wrote...
don't forget Cullen I was very suprised at how much he had changedJackel159357 wrote...
What I learnt from DA2 was that the People of Ferelden are far superior to that of the free marchers. Irving was tortured for days or weeks possibly and did not succumb to Uldred, While Orsinio breaks much more easily under pressure. Not to mention the captain of the Guard ending up being from ferelden as did the Champion.
There is lyrium in the water; The Talkative man in the Hanged Man is smarter than you think.
#19
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 03:33
Capeo
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Uh, Templars are breaking down the doors when that happens so what the hell are you all talking about? The Templars are right in the hallway and can actually be a distraction for your party because they can be hit through the "magic wall" that goes up. It's not like he cracks when no Templars are around.
Also, just on the amount of blood magic in the game: the Three, through the codex, pretty much explain that the Kirkwall has been designed to commune with the Fade. The streets are even in the shapes of Runes. The Veil is extremely thin and madness is easy to come by because of it.
Also, just on the amount of blood magic in the game: the Three, through the codex, pretty much explain that the Kirkwall has been designed to commune with the Fade. The streets are even in the shapes of Runes. The Veil is extremely thin and madness is easy to come by because of it.
#20
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 03:48
ken007
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Capeo wrote...
Uh, Templars are breaking down the doors when that happens so what the hell are you all talking about? The Templars are right in the hallway and can actually be a distraction for your party because they can be hit through the "magic wall" that goes up. It's not like he cracks when no Templars are around.
Also, just on the amount of blood magic in the game: the Three, through the codex, pretty much explain that the Kirkwall has been designed to commune with the Fade. The streets are even in the shapes of Runes. The Veil is extremely thin and madness is easy to come by because of it.
It just doesn't seem justifiable to crack at that moment. They were simply another wave of templars to be killed. Also the fact that he tells some of the mages, before the templars come, to run off to the other circles and tell them "about the injustice here" and then what does he do... he ****g validates the templars paranoia by using blood magic... it's all very illogical.
And about the madness coming easy in Kirkwall. Well why at that moment, that's just such a coincidense that he cracks at that very moment. No I say lazy writing. They just wanted Orsino to transform no matter what. It just doesn't make sense, the mages are about to win and then he does that.
#21
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 04:00
Capeo
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ken007 wrote...
It just doesn't seem justifiable to crack at that moment. They were simply another wave of templars to be killed. Also the fact that he tells some of the mages, before the templars come, to run off to the other circles and tell them "about the injustice here" and then what does he do... he ****g validates the templars paranoia by using blood magic... it's all very illogical.
And about the madness coming easy in Kirkwall. Well why at that moment, that's just such a coincidense that he cracks at that very moment. No I say lazy writing. They just wanted Orsino to transform no matter what. It just doesn't make sense, the mages are about to win and then he does that.
How exactly are the mages about to win at that moment? You're trapped in a room against which seems insurmountable odds. Orsino consistently perceives, even earlier, that he's giving up his life to let others escape. He even tells you to make your goodbyes with everybody, prior to the Templars breaking in, and they're all fear the odds too. There are Templars stuck in there with you though they die quickly.
Yes, the devs needed to have a reason for that boss fight no matter the route you took but I think it was handled well. If you go the Templar route you will see Orsino was not very well balanced to begin with.
#22
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 10:36
ken007
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Capeo wrote...
How exactly are the mages about to win at that moment? You're trapped in a room against which seems insurmountable odds. Orsino consistently perceives, even earlier, that he's giving up his life to let others escape. He even tells you to make your goodbyes with everybody, prior to the Templars breaking in, and they're all fear the odds too. There are Templars stuck in there with you though they die quickly.
It doesn't seem like insurmountable odds since it's just another small wave of templars. I could understand his reasoning better if he was infact surrounded by loads of templars, but that is not the case. And when you kill Orsino there aren't anymore templars who come to fight, so your party IS winning.
#23
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 10:50
Annie_Dear
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Kriselia wrote...
TheBlackBaron wrote...
Kriselia wrote...
Wouldn't it be interesting if that was part of why so many templars there we complete psychos too? The whole city had been planned around maximum efficiency of blood sacrifices so you just know the whole place is messed up.
Maybe the circle should've trained a group of maleficar to mend tears in the Veil
...That's an interesting thought, actually. The Templars are already forcibly addicted to lyrium and display certain mage-like abilities as a result. Is there anything that actually says blood magic couldn't possibly boost them as well, along with all its nasty side effects?
Well, the dragon cultists of Haven had the rather blood magic-like Reaver abilities, not to mention the GW blood magic you can learn from Avernus.
Maybe one reason blood magic is forbidden is because it might actually give everyone somewhat mage-like abilities?
Doesn't Flora tell Sebastian that there's no magic in their family, and her mother was still able to make a deal with Allure?
Modifié par Annie_Dear, 20 mars 2011 - 10:50 .
#25
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:14
Funker Shepard
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Orsino's nuts - of course his actions don't make sense.
