594 réponses à ce sujet

[TileToad]

I think TO is confusing plain adventure games with RPG games. They are two different genres. The other possibility is that perhaps the combat in DA isn't interesting/deep enough for some people. Of course, I can only speculate on that part, but why else would you even bring it up otherwise?

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Alright, a few days ago there was a thread discussing an interview of some dev who talked that there should be "skip the combat button". I found it hilarious. However today I understood there seriously should be that kind of button. I found DA2 unplayable because of various reasons, but one of those reasons could be easily fixed with skip the combat button.

This is not trolling. Or if you say this is trolling then you must say the dev trolled too who invented "skip the combat button" idea, which would still not make this posting trolling.

Some fights should be unavoidable if it makes sense story-wise (e. g. Archdemon in DAO).

But overall I very much agree. Especially for those sh!tty dumbf*ck bandits all over the place.....

Suggestion: Every fight starts with a dialogue.
You have 3 options:
1) Kill em all   -> fight starts
2) Super-duper-awesome move: You see a cutscene in which Hawke kills em all
3) super-duper-awesome magic: Same as 2 only you don´t see them getting cut in half but blown up

Depending on your companions: Let them do the sh!t, e. g. Varric shooting them Matrix-style by shooting 100000 arrows at once, or Anders going all REVENGE on them, or Fenris grabbing their hearts like he sooo loves doing and eating them....

That is better way to do it, and it has actually partially been done in Act 0. One crap fight less. Had they given those options to each fight the game would be playable. In addition to that devs could design games more freely without such a need to please the lowest common denominator.

Give crap fights for "mah combat badass button smasher" and give dialogue and other options for the rest.

Hell, the best would be to do Arena with endless spawns for those "mah baddass". They could do combat all day long and the game would never end! For the rest pls make RPG too next time.

[sleepyowlet]

mr_afk wrote...

Obviously some things can't be changed. If hawke never went on that expedition or left Kirkwall in the very beginning he/she would have been in the position that made him/her the Champion. What Varric is doing is telling a story of how it happened - it's already happened, so some choices are limited. But there are several choices along the way which will foreseeably change the landscape of DA3?
And I guess if it makes you feel better, you can imagine that your conscience driven character who feels bad about killing people actually didn't kill THAT many people and that it's mostly just Varric exaggerating everything. That's the beauty of it been a story. The combat doens't need to be realistic.

Origins was amazing, but DA2 isn't Origins and doesn't need to be; If they had made it exactly the same everyone would be raging on about how they hadn't improved/changed anything. Some things truly sucked in DA2; namely the repetitive maps and the lack in companion dialogues but overall it wasn't as bad as everyone seems to be making it out to be. But maybe that's because I played it on a different platform?

Hm... Still... what i missed were things like the Landsmeet - where you could just grab your foe and add him to your party. That was wonderful. Or all the stories at the side, like Branka, or just the random funnies like the Axameter and the meteor...

Memorable NPCs.

The easiest way to improve a game would be to take a look at the modding-comunity and just implement what they improve. Like the Lock-Bash. I love this mod. Yet, again, no bashing open thrunks in DA2. Bummer. Are there mods that cut down on the NPC-interaction? Not that I know of. But there are lots that add/expand conversations. Improved atmosphere mods - I'd use them, if my computer could handle them. DA2? More dead than DA:O, Kirkwall is practically a ghost-town... I could go on.

As for the platform, that might be a reason. A controller is more immediate than keyboard and mouse, so I suppose something that just feels really boring to me would be great for you, since a controller is a lot more visceral when it comes to combat.

On another note, I'm really sick of this whole PC vs. Console quarrel. I'm glad we can be civilized about this

[moilami]

TileToad wrote...

I think TO is confusing plain adventure games with RPG games. They are two different genres. The other possibility is that perhaps the combat in DA isn't interesting/deep enough for some people. Of course, I can only speculate on that part, but why else would you even bring it up otherwise?

Combat mechanics in DA2 have great potential. Those talents. The combat just sucks because combat is much more than what talents you have. I have played both games with complex mechanics and less complex mechanics with great joy.

[Brenus]

sleepyowlet wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the combat? That is just completely retarded.

Seriously, stop buying video games and go and watch a movie or read a book instead.

If the combat in a game is actually so bad that you want to skip it, then maybe you simply shouldnt have bought such a rubbish game like DA2 in the first place.

Bloody lamers.

#

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the dialogue? That is just completely retarded.
Yet the button is there.

And I would appreciate it, if you didn't tell others what they should or shouldn't do do. You are hardly entitled to do that. Name calling is also only a definite proof of immaturity.

Why are you so offended by the idea of a skip-combat-button? You wouldn't need to use it, after all. Or is your way to enjoy a game the only one?

You can't really skip the dialogue portions in their entiret, as many of them require interction or input from the player, so that entire argument is a logical fallacy. The equivilant would be to skip the animations in combat but go through the motions.

Also, the game is an RPG with combat elements. Don't like combat elements? Buy a game without combat. Really this entire argument is backass retarded. Do you want a button to skip the platforming in the next Jak and Daxter game? I bet you do.

Hm... as I wrote earlier, I didn't feel the need for such a button in DA:O. But in DA2 yes. True, combat is the aspect I enjoy least in an RPG, but that doesn't mean that I want to get rid of it entirely. Just when it gets boring. Like it did in DA2. And as I also wrote earlier, I'd rather have diplomacy options instead of said button. Or puzzles. Anything. But I'd like to have a choice, if I want to kill something or not.

Hey, point me to an RPG without combat! Seriously, that I gotta see. Where???

Also, I have no idea what Jak and Daxter is. Will google now. brb.

Seriously, just stop playing video games altogether if you want to skip combat. Even if you so desperately want a game where combat can be skipped, I doubt that regardless of how lame Bioware have been with DA2, they are going to stoop that low to put a skip combat button in the game.

Or heres an even better suggestion for you, go and make such an RPG with combat skipping yourself. It has nothing to do with having the option to do it, its just a completely retarded idea in the first place, and yea, so are people who actually want to skip combat in their games. 

Find another hobby instead of constantly ruining video games with your ridiculous whining. 

[sleepyowlet]

Brenus wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the combat? That is just completely retarded.

Seriously, stop buying video games and go and watch a movie or read a book instead.

If the combat in a game is actually so bad that you want to skip it, then maybe you simply shouldnt have bought such a rubbish game like DA2 in the first place.

Bloody lamers.

#

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the dialogue? That is just completely retarded.
Yet the button is there.

And I would appreciate it, if you didn't tell others what they should or shouldn't do do. You are hardly entitled to do that. Name calling is also only a definite proof of immaturity.

Why are you so offended by the idea of a skip-combat-button? You wouldn't need to use it, after all. Or is your way to enjoy a game the only one?

You can't really skip the dialogue portions in their entiret, as many of them require interction or input from the player, so that entire argument is a logical fallacy. The equivilant would be to skip the animations in combat but go through the motions.

Also, the game is an RPG with combat elements. Don't like combat elements? Buy a game without combat. Really this entire argument is backass retarded. Do you want a button to skip the platforming in the next Jak and Daxter game? I bet you do.

Hm... as I wrote earlier, I didn't feel the need for such a button in DA:O. But in DA2 yes. True, combat is the aspect I enjoy least in an RPG, but that doesn't mean that I want to get rid of it entirely. Just when it gets boring. Like it did in DA2. And as I also wrote earlier, I'd rather have diplomacy options instead of said button. Or puzzles. Anything. But I'd like to have a choice, if I want to kill something or not.

Hey, point me to an RPG without combat! Seriously, that I gotta see. Where???

Also, I have no idea what Jak and Daxter is. Will google now. brb.

Seriously, just stop playing video games altogether if you want to skip combat. Even if you so desperately want a game where combat can be skipped, I doubt that regardless of how lame Bioware have been with DA2, they are going to stoop that low to put a skip combat button in the game.

Or heres an even better suggestion for you, go and make such an RPG with combat skipping yourself. It has nothing to do with having the option to do it, its just a completely retarded idea in the first place, and yea, so are people who actually want to skip combat in their games. 

Find another hobby instead of constantly ruining video games with your ridiculous whining. 

Wohoo! Am I supposed to cry now?

Seriously, I fail to see what gets you so riled up. For the most part we are just exchanging viewpoints in a civil manner, and bouncing ideas. What's wrong with that? If you dislike the idea so much, why don't you go and read a different thread, and leave us be? Just a suggestion.

And I don't need to make such a game, as I remember one could finish DeusEx without firing one single bullet. There is no skip-button involved, just the dev-given opportunity to use stealth/diplomacy. Why is that a bad thing? Give those who want to fight some combat, and leave those who don't want to fight alone with it. Everybody will be happy that way. Or do I have less right to be happy than you?

And what did I say about the name-calling? People won't take you very seriously, if you keep insulting others, you know.

[TileToad]

moilami wrote...
Combat mechanics in DA2 have great potential. Those talents. The combat just sucks because combat is much more than what talents you have. I have played both games with complex mechanics and less complex mechanics with great joy.

Personally I think that games, where combat plays such an integral part, fights should be complex and tactical, not omitted. I'm thinking Total War and Silent Storm style here. I want my units to use traps and flank enemies! I want to outwit my opponents by analyzing and exploiting their weaknesses! I want to use talents, gear and tactics to give me an edge against seemingly unbeatable odds! I want.. I want.. Sigh.. I'm starting to ramble now. Nevermind.

[JamieCOTC]

At the very least, there should be a "skip the combat" mod made for DA2.Maybe there should be a "make the combat better" button for DA3.  I would be in for that. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 20 mars 2011 - 05:12 .

[Tirigon]

Brenus wrote...

Seriously, just stop playing video games altogether if you want to skip combat. Even if you so desperately want a game where combat can be skipped, I doubt that regardless of how lame Bioware have been with DA2, they are going to stoop that low to put a skip combat button in the game.

Or heres an even better suggestion for you, go and make such an RPG with combat skipping yourself. It has nothing to do with having the option to do it, its just a completely retarded idea in the first place, and yea, so are people who actually want to skip combat in their games. 

Find another hobby instead of constantly ruining video games with your ridiculous whining. 

The RAGE is big in this one. I sense it falling towards the Dark Side. I sense major BUTTACHE in this one.

[Brenus]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Brenus wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the combat? That is just completely retarded.

Seriously, stop buying video games and go and watch a movie or read a book instead.

If the combat in a game is actually so bad that you want to skip it, then maybe you simply shouldnt have bought such a rubbish game like DA2 in the first place.

Bloody lamers.

#

Why the hell would anyone want to skip the dialogue? That is just completely retarded.
Yet the button is there.

And I would appreciate it, if you didn't tell others what they should or shouldn't do do. You are hardly entitled to do that. Name calling is also only a definite proof of immaturity.

Why are you so offended by the idea of a skip-combat-button? You wouldn't need to use it, after all. Or is your way to enjoy a game the only one?

You can't really skip the dialogue portions in their entiret, as many of them require interction or input from the player, so that entire argument is a logical fallacy. The equivilant would be to skip the animations in combat but go through the motions.

Also, the game is an RPG with combat elements. Don't like combat elements? Buy a game without combat. Really this entire argument is backass retarded. Do you want a button to skip the platforming in the next Jak and Daxter game? I bet you do.

Hm... as I wrote earlier, I didn't feel the need for such a button in DA:O. But in DA2 yes. True, combat is the aspect I enjoy least in an RPG, but that doesn't mean that I want to get rid of it entirely. Just when it gets boring. Like it did in DA2. And as I also wrote earlier, I'd rather have diplomacy options instead of said button. Or puzzles. Anything. But I'd like to have a choice, if I want to kill something or not.

Hey, point me to an RPG without combat! Seriously, that I gotta see. Where???

Also, I have no idea what Jak and Daxter is. Will google now. brb.

Seriously, just stop playing video games altogether if you want to skip combat. Even if you so desperately want a game where combat can be skipped, I doubt that regardless of how lame Bioware have been with DA2, they are going to stoop that low to put a skip combat button in the game.

Or heres an even better suggestion for you, go and make such an RPG with combat skipping yourself. It has nothing to do with having the option to do it, its just a completely retarded idea in the first place, and yea, so are people who actually want to skip combat in their games. 

Find another hobby instead of constantly ruining video games with your ridiculous whining. 

Wohoo! Am I supposed to cry now?

Seriously, I fail to see what gets you so riled up. For the most part we are just exchanging viewpoints in a civil manner, and bouncing ideas. What's wrong with that? If you dislike the idea so much, why don't you go and read a different thread, and leave us be? Just a suggestion.

And I don't need to make such a game, as I remember one could finish DeusEx without firing one single bullet. There is no skip-button involved, just the dev-given opportunity to use stealth/diplomacy. Why is that a bad thing? Give those who want to fight some combat, and leave those who don't want to fight alone with it. Everybody will be happy that way. Or do I have less right to be happy than you?

And what did I say about the name-calling? People won't take you very seriously, if you keep insulting others, you know.

And you think that anyone is actually going to take you seriously because you want a skip combat option? Lol.

As for Deus Ex, it didnt have a skip combat option either, you could simply play the game as a stealth character and avoid combat. Thats a completely different mechanic to a 'skip combat button', and is actually very enjoyable in RPGs.

But in case you didnt know, the reason why games dont have that anymore is because of how dumber they keep on getting. Having an option to simply skip combat altogther is nowhere near the same thing as tactical stealth, and is just simply dumbing the game down more and more.

And yes, people who actually want a 'skip combat button' in their games (NOT the same thing as stealth in games like Deus Ex and Baldurs Gate) are retarded morons who should be doing something other than playing video games. It would be an even bigger shame for Bioware to add such an option into their future games, and I think they have had enough of that as it is with DA2.

Modifié par Brenus, 20 mars 2011 - 05:23 .

[fall_ark]

I could do without the exps with all those "night falls, bandits everywhere" fights. Having a "skip combat" button there doesn't mean I want to skip every battle, just like having the Esc button doesn't mean I want to skip every dialogue and cutscence -- some I still watch and listen in their entirety, but some I choose to skip because there is literally nothing new.

Also, I have to admit that even though Bioware has forced most Codex entires on me (have to click the Okay button to end the text window), I haven't really read many of them. And I would probably never read the same entry more than twice.

Has anyone complained about Quick Travel ruining their gaming experience yet? No? I think so.

[The Spirit of Dance]

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

[sleepyowlet]

Brenus wrote...

And you think that anyone is actually going to take you seriously because you want a skip combat option? Lol.

As for Deus Ex, it didnt have a skip combat option either, you could simply play the game as a stealth character and avoid combat. Thats a completely different mechanic to a 'skip combat button', and is actually very enjoyable in RPGs.

But in case you didnt know, the reason why games dont have that anymore is because of how dumber they keep on getting. Having an option to simply skip combat altogther is nowhere near the same thing as tactical stealth, and is just simply dumbing the game down more and more.

And yes, people who actually want a 'skip combat button' in their games (NOT the same thing as stealth in games like Deus Ex and Baldurs Gate) are retarded morons who should be doing something other than playing video games. It would be an even bigger shame for Bioware to add such an option into their future games, and I think they have had enough of that as it is with DA2.

Uh... you did read what I wrote, right?

No, I didn't want the button for DA:O.
Yes, I want it (mod, anyone, please?) for DA2.
Should the combat stay as boring, dumb, and repetetive in DA3 - yes, I want the button. Bring back the tactics and the diversity, and I don't want it.

That clear enough?

No, of course it's not the same as a diplomacy/stealth option, and yes, I would enjoy that a lot more, I'm with you there. However, judging by the most recent BW games ... enemies go red as soon as you see them, and they stay red. You on the other hand can't leave the map until they're dead.
So the stealth/diplomacy option isn't very likely to be implemented. It is also pretty unlikely that they'll bring back the tactical combat. And since that's the way it is, I wouldn't be averse to the button, because I still want to know the story.

[TileToad]

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

[MonkeyLungs]

Galad22 wrote...

This would essentially be a victimless change, it would change game for the better for some and make absolutely no difference for others. Unlike some of the other changes that they force feeded us on DA2.

So why are some people so against this? Makes absolutely no sense.

I liked your ideras for having alternate ways to deal with challenges other than just fighting better.  Much of what you were talking about earlier reminded me of Deus Ex and AP quite a bit.

I think maybe a skip combat button might have deeper ramifications than has been considered though. Anyway your points about more alternatives to combat were aces.

[sleepyowlet]

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

No, there are people who want a button to switch off the trash mobs and boring slash-fests.

And I personally will do with such games what I did with DA2 - I rent them for a couple of euro for the story. Until the options to sneak and talk are back. As soon as I'm not railroaded into mindless killing anymore, I'll buy games again.

[sleepyowlet]

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

Uh ... combat doesn't make a RPG. Role-playing makes an RPG. And if I can't roleplay my character, if I'm continually forced into killing continuously respawning trash-mobs, I'm not playing a role-playing game.

[TEWR]

Aeduz wrote...

Instead of fighting Darkspawn in DA3, lets invite them around for tea and crumpets.

LOL I said to myself just a few minutes ago "Sure and we shouldn't have to kill those mindless hurlocks. They can be our bestest friends!"

[TileToad]

sleepyowlet wrote...

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

Uh ... combat doesn't make a RPG. Role-playing makes an RPG. And if I can't roleplay my character, if I'm continually forced into killing continuously respawning trash-mobs, I'm not playing a role-playing game.

You must have a very different idea of what a RPG is. It has always been a concept where combat was an essential part of the genre. If you just want to play a role, you might as well play a FPS, or flight simulator.

Modifié par TileToad, 20 mars 2011 - 06:04 .

[Legbiter]

Maybe skip posting, yes?

[CRISIS1717]

How about a skip the entire game button?

[AkiKishi]

Go play some Final Fantasy, switch off the random encounters (items or skill) and see what difference it makes to the game overall.

Until you do that, knee jerk reactions about how removing combat will wreck the game are totally pointless.

[sleepyowlet]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

This would essentially be a victimless change, it would change game for the better for some and make absolutely no difference for others. Unlike some of the other changes that they force feeded us on DA2.

So why are some people so against this? Makes absolutely no sense.

I liked your ideras for having alternate ways to deal with challenges other than just fighting better.  Much of what you were talking about earlier reminded me of Deus Ex and AP quite a bit.

I think maybe a skip combat button might have deeper ramifications than has been considered though. Anyway your points about more alternatives to combat were aces.

I absolutely agree. As long as there are interesting tactics and alternative options there is no need for a button.

There's this one big room in Fort Drakon full of undead. I always have my rogue sneak next to the door and open it. Then I move my mage close but not too close and cast inferno. Rogue closes the door. Wait for everything inside to die. Sigh...

[moilami]

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

It is delusional thinking to think combat makes a game an RPG. A clueless kid who has only played DA and who has heard people saying "lol it be errpeegee" could possibly think so. In theory, that is. In practise anyone in BW forums can think so - and BW is considered to be RPG forum.

[Image used as emote/commentary removed as spam]

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 20 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[TEWR]

and there's still the option to not kill people. You just bring along certain companions.

like in Offered and Lost, you bring along Aveline and you don't have to fight all those guards in the Hanged Man.


People saying the ways to avoid needless combat is nonexistent in DA2 are the same people who can't use common sense. ""Oh a city guard was bought off? Ok off to the Hanged Man"


fight ensues....


"WTF I didn't want to kill these guys!"