594 réponses à ce sujet

[TileToad]

moilami wrote...

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

It is delusional thinking to think combat makes a game an RPG. A clueless kid who has only played DA and who has heard people saying "lol it be errpeegee" could possibly think so. In theory, that is. In practise anyone in BW forums can think so - and BW is considered to be RPG forum.

Read my post to sleepyowlet. You're the clueless one if you don't even know what the RPG genre consists of.

Edit: Also, I never stated that "combat makes a game a RPG". I said it's an essential part of it. Which it is.

Modifié par TileToad, 20 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[Aesieru]

I don't agree... first off combat is generally the means that a person realistically gains experience in... well fighting.

Second, I am all for other means to get out of combat AT CERTAIN TIMES, but boss fights, and what not make up RPG's and are essential.

Do not remove them, you will feel less connection to the game as you are not actually DOING anything in the game outside of saying things, and words without actions, are useless.

[TJSolo]

sleepyowlet wrote...

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

Uh ... combat doesn't make a RPG. Role-playing makes an RPG. And if I can't roleplay my character, if I'm continually forced into killing continuously respawning trash-mobs, I'm not playing a role-playing game.

Every RPG I have played addresss my growth as a combatant along with the advancement of w/e forces are against me and the progression of the story.  If you character does not have the ability to sneak past combat yet you still want that character to sneak around then you aren't RPing you are dreaming.
There are various point and click adventures that have no combat but I would not them RPGs.

[TEWR]

combat may not MAKE an RPG an RPG, but it is a core component. By eliminating that core component, you're diminishing the actual experience of the game. Imagine you want to kill someone really badly, but then the combat is skipped. You don't get the thrill of shoving a sword of mercy (in this case, vengeance) through their heart.

[sleepyowlet]

TileToad wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

Uh ... combat doesn't make a RPG. Role-playing makes an RPG. And if I can't roleplay my character, if I'm continually forced into killing continuously respawning trash-mobs, I'm not playing a role-playing game.

You must have a very different idea of what a RPG is. It has always been a concept where combat was an essential part of the genre. If you just want to play a role, you might as well play a FPS, or flight simulator.

Wait, what??? Now that just doesn't make sense. You know, before computers were used for playing RPGs, there were these things called Pen and Paper... they are the root. You make a character. You play that character, you say what they say. Like freestyle acting, while a gamemaster gives you a story, surroundings and other characters (so called NPCs) to interact with. I have spent hours playing (and mastering) Vampire the Masquerade without anyone fighting anyone - and it was fun, because usually the company had to remain undetected, so nobody would know why something had happened...

That is role.playing. Character developement. Story. Making choices. Combat is just the icing on the cake. In moderation delicious, add to much and the cake becomes inedible.

[moilami]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

How about, if you don't like a large portion of what the game is, say the combat portion of a largely combat-based RPG, you don't play the game? That'd be like if I said "I wish they would let you skip the platforming portions of Jak 3" or "I wish I could skip the dungeons in Zelda". You remove the entire game portion of the game, and you make it practically pointless to play. With no real challenge and the ability to just skip a fight whenever your stuck, or if you find it difficult, or any other reason just makes it a shallow visual novel.

This is why people are complaining about the market becoming casualized, people like OP.

Why future tense? HAHAHHAHAHHAAAHAHAAAAA.

Oh. Just realized DA was the first errpeegee u played.

[sleepyowlet]

Aesieru wrote...

I don't agree... first off combat is generally the means that a person realistically gains experience in... well fighting.

Second, I am all for other means to get out of combat AT CERTAIN TIMES, but boss fights, and what not make up RPG's and are essential.

Do not remove them, you will feel less connection to the game as you are not actually DOING anything in the game outside of saying things, and words without actions, are useless.

Hey, nothing against boss-fights. But the endless trash mobs of DA2? A little choice sometimes would have been nice. Like letting Loghain live in DA:O...

[TEWR]

there's probably only like 100-200 people who actually want a skip the combat option out of the hundreds of thousands of gamers out there, so really this would be a major step down if Bioware did that.

[AkiKishi]

Remember how in Fallout you could get through whole game without killing anyone ? Outside of random encounters anyway, which you could run away from.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

there's probably only like 100-200 people who actually want a skip the combat option out of the hundreds of thousands of gamers out there, so really this would be a major step down if Bioware did that.

Probably more than that statistically speaking.

I play Dynasty Warriors but DA2's combat is that poor even I would have skipped it given the option.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[moilami]

RetryAgain wrote...

Incantrix: I'm not even lying when I say that was my exact thought. He wants a movie where he makes decisions on what would happen, it seems.

Who?

[TEWR]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

I don't agree... first off combat is generally the means that a person realistically gains experience in... well fighting.

Second, I am all for other means to get out of combat AT CERTAIN TIMES, but boss fights, and what not make up RPG's and are essential.

Do not remove them, you will feel less connection to the game as you are not actually DOING anything in the game outside of saying things, and words without actions, are useless.

Hey, nothing against boss-fights. But the endless trash mobs of DA2? A little choice sometimes would have been nice. Like letting Loghain live in DA:O...

considering more than half of DA2 enemies were Slavers, Raiders, Criminals, demons, undead, dragons, and more..... sure let's just let them live.

[The Spirit of Dance]

sleepyowlet wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

No, there are people who want a button to switch off the trash mobs and boring slash-fests.

And I personally will do with such games what I did with DA2 - I rent them for a couple of euro for the story. Until the options to sneak and talk are back. As soon as I'm not railroaded into mindless killing anymore, I'll buy games again.

hmm.. sneaking around enemies can be fun if done the right way. plus it would be cool to have multiple ways to play the same game if they are not bad. so ok im for it as long as skipping gameplay altogether is not the topic because that just sounds like an RPM (role-playing movie)

[TileToad]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Wait, what??? Now that just doesn't make sense. You know, before computers were used for playing RPGs, there were these things called Pen and Paper... they are the root. You make a character. You play that character, you say what they say. Like freestyle acting, while a gamemaster gives you a story, surroundings and other characters (so called NPCs) to interact with. I have spent hours playing (and mastering) Vampire the Masquerade without anyone fighting anyone - and it was fun, because usually the company had to remain undetected, so nobody would know why something had happened...

That is role.playing. Character developement. Story. Making choices. Combat is just the icing on the cake. In moderation delicious, add to much and the cake becomes inedible.

Again, you're confusing the issue. I'm talking about the RPG as a game genre, not about Roleplaying specifically.
What I tried to explain is that RP'ing can be done with nearly every game out there. The RPG genre, however, is a concept that includes combat as an essential element to gain experience. And through that experience you build up your RP character. What use would gaining experience be if there was no way to utilize it? If you take out combat you reduce the genre to an (ennobled) adventure game.

[sleepyowlet]

TJSolo wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

TileToad wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

Of course there are!
What I don't understand is why they insist on it being a RPG game!

Uh ... combat doesn't make a RPG. Role-playing makes an RPG. And if I can't roleplay my character, if I'm continually forced into killing continuously respawning trash-mobs, I'm not playing a role-playing game.

Every RPG I have played addresss my growth as a combatant along with the advancement of w/e forces are against me and the progression of the story.  If you character does not have the ability to sneak past combat yet you still want that character to sneak around then you aren't RPing you are dreaming.
There are various point and click adventures that have no combat but I would not them RPGs.

And diplomacy? I like talking to people better than hitting them. Nothing wrong with fighting once in a while, but the continuous respawning lemming-bandits? Act 3? Too much. Way too much fighting. It was tedious and boring, and it had only minuscule ties to the story.

[TEWR]

bobsmith it was just a figure to use as an example. Point being Bioware would be catering to a miniscule fraction of their fanbase who wants this and leaving everyone else with some piece of **** option.

[AkiKishi]

Aesieru wrote...

I don't agree... first off combat is generally the means that a person realistically gains experience in... well fighting.

Second, I am all for other means to get out of combat AT CERTAIN TIMES, but boss fights, and what not make up RPG's and are essential.

Do not remove them, you will feel less connection to the game as you are not actually DOING anything in the game outside of saying things, and words without actions, are useless.

ME2 would disagree. While you could not exactly talk your way out of combat, a Vanguard could skip a lot of it just by clever use of charge.

Once you make XP quest based, then combat no longer serves as a level up mechanism, you still get loot, but then considering that crap you got in drops in DA2, really no loss there.

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

there's probably only like 100-200 people who actually want a skip the combat option out of the hundreds of thousands of gamers out there, so really this would be a major step down if Bioware did that.

Worthless speculation not really related to the question should there be "skip combat button" since you can only know what majority thinks of if after it has been implemented.

Besides there has already been ninja "skip the combat" button in act 0 on DA2. 

[TEWR]

moilami wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

there's probably only like 100-200 people who actually want a skip the combat option out of the hundreds of thousands of gamers out there, so really this would be a major step down if Bioware did that.

Worthless speculation not really related to the question should there be "skip combat button" since you can only know what majority thinks of if after it has been implemented.

Besides there has already been ninja "skip the combat" button in act 0 on DA2. 

[sarcasm]oh my, your attempts at an attack on my comment without grasping the full point of it have wounded me so! [/sarcasm]

EDIT: You know what you could ask for Moilami? Instead of a "skip the combat" button, you could ask for a Theater with every single cutscene from every quest made available after you actually play the game. Like FFX did (yes I brought a Final Fantasy game into this discussion, but it's the best example I can think of. I also think Jak3 had that too.)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[moilami]

supremebloodwolf wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

No, there are people who want a button to switch off the trash mobs and boring slash-fests.

And I personally will do with such games what I did with DA2 - I rent them for a couple of euro for the story. Until the options to sneak and talk are back. As soon as I'm not railroaded into mindless killing anymore, I'll buy games again.

hmm.. sneaking around enemies can be fun if done the right way. plus it would be cool to have multiple ways to play the same game if they are not bad. so ok im for it as long as skipping gameplay altogether is not the topic because that just sounds like an RPM (role-playing movie)

It would be cool if you would stop saying how people should be able to play games based on what you think is "cool" or "fun".

If you don't want to skip combat, then you don't skip it. Nobody is forcing you to skip combat.

Why you are trying to force people do combat?

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

moilami wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

there's probably only like 100-200 people who actually want a skip the combat option out of the hundreds of thousands of gamers out there, so really this would be a major step down if Bioware did that.

Worthless speculation not really related to the question should there be "skip combat button" since you can only know what majority thinks of if after it has been implemented.

Besides there has already been ninja "skip the combat" button in act 0 on DA2. 

[sarcasm]oh my, your attempts at an attack on my comment without grasping the full point of it have wounded me so! [/sarcasm]

EDIT: You know what you could ask for Moilami? Instead of a "skip the combat" button, you could ask for a Theater with every single cutscene from every quest made available after you actually play the game. Like FFX did (yes I brought a Final Fantasy game into this discussion, but it's the best example I can think of. I also think Jak3 had that too.)

Just commented your opinions objectively.

[MonkeyLungs]

It takes alot more effort to have a bunch of non-combat skills and then give gameplay scenarios where a player can approach in whatever way they have built their character.

It also influences world design. Hard to make corridor like maps that allow for one way in one way out and cater to alternate playstyles..

Non combat approach to solving problems is awesome in some RPG's but they also tend to have non combat skills to back the playstyle up and the game is built with those in mind from the beginning.

In DA2 the skills are for combat.

[Brenus]

So basically, DA2 is full of mind numbingly boring combat that you literally want to skip it, and most of the game is this way, yet there are people who have easily completed the game in under 30 hours ....

So essentially, you paid $60 for n RPG with 5-10 hours of storyline, and 20-25 hours of combat, and you hated the combat so much that in the future, you would rather pay $60 for nothing but a 10 hour story rendered in a crappy 3D game engine?

Lol do people who are asking for that fail so hard.

[sleepyowlet]

TileToad wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Wait, what??? Now that just doesn't make sense. You know, before computers were used for playing RPGs, there were these things called Pen and Paper... they are the root. You make a character. You play that character, you say what they say. Like freestyle acting, while a gamemaster gives you a story, surroundings and other characters (so called NPCs) to interact with. I have spent hours playing (and mastering) Vampire the Masquerade without anyone fighting anyone - and it was fun, because usually the company had to remain undetected, so nobody would know why something had happened...

That is role.playing. Character developement. Story. Making choices. Combat is just the icing on the cake. In moderation delicious, add to much and the cake becomes inedible.

Again, you're confusing the issue. I'm talking about the RPG as a game genre, not about Roleplaying specifically.
What I tried to explain is that RP'ing can be done with nearly every game out there. The RPG genre, however, is a concept that includes combat as an essential element to gain experience. And through that experience you build up your RP character. What use would gaining experience be if there was no way to utilize it? If you take out combat you reduce the genre to an (ennobled) adventure game.

Utilize it in stealth and diplomacy skills? Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is undeniably a RPG - and you can sneak and talk people into things with skills like dominate (or madness, if you were Malkavian). You got your XP anyway. For solving the quests. If I remember correctly you got quest-XP in DA too. I'm not saying eliminate all combat. I'm saying make it possible to use alternate routes sometimes. Of course I would never sit down and have tea with the Archdemon. But sometimes ... I just get tired of wading through rivers of blood.
And is it such a strange concept that I want to have the ability to roleplay my character in a role-playing-game?

[Brenus]

moilami wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

No, there are people who want a button to switch off the trash mobs and boring slash-fests.

And I personally will do with such games what I did with DA2 - I rent them for a couple of euro for the story. Until the options to sneak and talk are back. As soon as I'm not railroaded into mindless killing anymore, I'll buy games again.

hmm.. sneaking around enemies can be fun if done the right way. plus it would be cool to have multiple ways to play the same game if they are not bad. so ok im for it as long as skipping gameplay altogether is not the topic because that just sounds like an RPM (role-playing movie)

It would be cool if you would stop saying how people should be able to play games based on what you think is "cool" or "fun".

If you don't want to skip combat, then you don't skip it. Nobody is forcing you to skip combat.

Why you are trying to force people do combat?

Why are you buying / playing video games if you dont like the combat? Putting a skip combat buttong into a game would affect everyone playing, its not really anywhere near as minor an implementation as you are suggesting and would do nothing but severely ****** off 99% of the people who play that game, while making the remaining 1% of lamers like yourself and sleepyowlet happy.

Go and watch a movie, or better yet, watch a youtube playthrough of the game instead if you dont want to play it yourself. 

Modifié par Brenus, 20 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[The Spirit of Dance]

moilami wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

... so, there are people that would pay $60 for a rpg game without combat interactive cg movie with video game level visuals?

No, there are people who want a button to switch off the trash mobs and boring slash-fests.

And I personally will do with such games what I did with DA2 - I rent them for a couple of euro for the story. Until the options to sneak and talk are back. As soon as I'm not railroaded into mindless killing anymore, I'll buy games again.

hmm.. sneaking around enemies can be fun if done the right way. plus it would be cool to have multiple ways to play the same game if they are not bad. so ok im for it as long as skipping gameplay altogether is not the topic because that just sounds like an RPM (role-playing movie)

It would be cool if you would stop saying how people should be able to play games based on what you think is "cool" or "fun".

If you don't want to skip combat, then you don't skip it. Nobody is forcing you to skip combat.

Why you are trying to force people do combat?

who said i'm forcing people to do combat?  I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything i'm just saying what i think and what i think is that skiping all gameplay in a video game is silly.