594 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex109222]

Silly hamburger helper, that's a movie that you want if you feel the need to "skip the combat".

[Servius the bear]

moilami wrote...

Alright, a few days ago there was a thread discussing an interview of some dev who talked that there should be "skip the combat button". I found it hilarious. However today I understood there seriously should be that kind of button. I found DA2 unplayable because of various reasons, but one of those reasons could be easily fixed with skip the combat button.

This is not trolling. Or if you say this is trolling then you must say the dev trolled too who invented "skip the combat button" idea, which would still not make this posting trolling.

WHAT! WHAT! WHAT!...

Seriuslly you are lazy then. If you do not want combat or skip it. then do not play the game!... I cant even believe this....

[Tirigon]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

How about a skip the entire game button?

That exists. And fyi, I used on DA2.
And since then, I enjoy gaming more again.

Modifié par Tirigon, 20 mars 2011 - 07:25 .

[TEWR]

these are people who live in slums, so they probably don't even see Hawke that much. Two groups of bandits can be excused for fighting you, the Followers of she who are controlled by a Desire Demon, and the Bloodrage thrall group thingy, because blood magic is controlling them.

Everyone else is either cocky beyond common sense, uneducated, or has never seen Hawke and thought he would be easy prey.

Even the Arishok says that sometimes the law must be taken into one's own hands, though I view it as a grey area myself. As the champion of Kirkwall, it kinda makes sense for you to want to clean up the streets. My Hawke did as I picked a few options where he said he wanted to make Kirkwall a better place.

Plus I wanted the gold the lady in the Hanged Man gives you for killing the bandits. I'm very greedy. I spent 3 days in Lothering just so I could use the Trap girl exploit to get 1500 sovereigns

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[moilami]

TileToad wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Wait, what??? Now that just doesn't make sense. You know, before computers were used for playing RPGs, there were these things called Pen and Paper... they are the root. You make a character. You play that character, you say what they say. Like freestyle acting, while a gamemaster gives you a story, surroundings and other characters (so called NPCs) to interact with. I have spent hours playing (and mastering) Vampire the Masquerade without anyone fighting anyone - and it was fun, because usually the company had to remain undetected, so nobody would know why something had happened...

That is role.playing. Character developement. Story. Making choices. Combat is just the icing on the cake. In moderation delicious, add to much and the cake becomes inedible.

Again, you're confusing the issue. I'm talking about the RPG as a game genre, not about Roleplaying specifically.
What I tried to explain is that RP'ing can be done with nearly every game out there. The RPG genre, however, is a concept that includes combat as an essential element to gain experience. And through that experience you build up your RP character. What use would gaining experience be if there was no way to utilize it? If you take out combat you reduce the genre to an (ennobled) adventure game.

Then you don't press the "skip the combat" button. You just don't do it. Or do you think yoiu have to press it if it exits in game?

[sleepyowlet]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

these are people who live in slums, so they probably don't even see Hawke that much. Two groups of bandits can be excused for fighting you, the Followers of she who are controlled by a Desire Demon, and the Bloodrage thrall group thingy, because blood magic is controlling them.

Everyone else is either cocky beyond common sense, uneducated, or has never seen Hawke and thought he would be easy prey.

Even the Arishok says that sometimes the law must be taken into one's own hands, though I view it as a grey area myself. As the champion of Kirkwall, it kinda makes sense for you to want to clean up the streets. My Hawke did as I picked a few options where he said he wanted to make Kirkwall a better place.

Plus I wanted the gold the lady in the Hanged Man gives you for killing the bandits. I'm very greedy. I spent 3 days in Lothering just so I could use the Trap girl exploit to get 1500 sovereigns

*lol* I've always used the vendor-exploit myself... it's a lot quicker and doable at any merchant in the game...
I must say without the exploit I never had enough money in Origins. In DA2 I had more money than I could spend...

As for the mobs - I stand by my opinion that there were too many of them in DA2, and the respawning thing was annoying. I would have liked to skip that. Act 3 was way too bloody as well, especially since you have to continuously fight everybody, allied with them or not. It was tedious. I don't like doing the same thing over and over again - and I'm so, so sick of Shades.

[moilami]

sleepyowlet wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

no but Aveline is. She's a companion. She's cleaning up the streets. If the captain of the guard is cleaning up the streets and has no problem with Hawke helping out, I really don't see your point.

That is not my point. My point is that I'm forced to do that. And I don't like being forced. Besides, those guys must be part lemming. How long would it realistically take to spread across town that this is Hawke. Don't mess with the Hawke, you'll only get dead...

the same could be said of the Warden. A good number of people (not all, but a lot) knew who the Warden was, made even more evident by the sketch of him Sergeant Kylon says there is in Denerim, yet they continue to mess with him.

and you want to let criminals live, because you don't want to fight them, even if one of your companions who is the captain of the guard personally has no qualms with you cleaning up the streets and helping keep her guards safe. I really am left speechless now.... seriously I don't know how to respond to that..... (and no I'm not conceding)

Good. I like having civilized debates. Thing is, keeping the city safe is not my job. Defeating the Darkspawn and Archie is the very job-description of the Warden. That people still mess with the Warden is because you don't have it tattoed to your forehead, and the game only covers about a year - not enough time for everyone in Ferelden to memorize your face. As for the picture of you, how good can it be? Well, perhaps if Loghain drew it himself, since he never forgets a face. Who else knows what you look like? If you're not playing a Cousie, that is.

Hawke lives in the city for years. People are bound to know what you look like. The lemming-bandits don't make sense, especially not in the later acts.  Any normal bandit would run away once they notice that their party is close to being wiped out. Don't those people have any kind of survival-instinct?

A very good posting. But it goes to empty ears since console button smashers and wowers does not care of roleplaying aspects like beliavable and immersive world. They want to do "questing" and "leveling" and major immersion breaker happen to them only if they press a button and nothing awesome happens.

[TEWR]

moilami I'm a "console button smasher" minus the button smashing part. I play DA2 on my PS3. I do in fact care about roleplaying aspects and a world I can truly care about. DA2 combat has it's flaws yes, but so did Origins. DA2 is at least more responsive and it's a step in the right direction to an amazing game with superb combat, even if that step is only a few inches.

edit: oh and origins. I found origins in Gamestop way back in August and was like "sure I like RPG games." Then I fell in love. I must've played origins a good 30 times before I had to put it down. And then I played it again in February

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[moilami]

Servius the bear wrote...

moilami wrote...

Alright, a few days ago there was a thread discussing an interview of some dev who talked that there should be "skip the combat button". I found it hilarious. However today I understood there seriously should be that kind of button. I found DA2 unplayable because of various reasons, but one of those reasons could be easily fixed with skip the combat button.

This is not trolling. Or if you say this is trolling then you must say the dev trolled too who invented "skip the combat button" idea, which would still not make this posting trolling.

WHAT! WHAT! WHAT!...

Seriuslly you are lazy then. If you do not want combat or skip it. then do not play the game!... I cant even believe this....

I take Tirigon's advice and skip the combat by launching the Witcher in 10 minutes.

DA2, including sequels, and every DLC for it goes to the "too crap to play" bin.

That was the end of story for my Dragon Age.

 cheer!

[TEWR]

sleepyowlet wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

these are people who live in slums, so they probably don't even see Hawke that much. Two groups of bandits can be excused for fighting you, the Followers of she who are controlled by a Desire Demon, and the Bloodrage thrall group thingy, because blood magic is controlling them.

Everyone else is either cocky beyond common sense, uneducated, or has never seen Hawke and thought he would be easy prey.

Even the Arishok says that sometimes the law must be taken into one's own hands, though I view it as a grey area myself. As the champion of Kirkwall, it kinda makes sense for you to want to clean up the streets. My Hawke did as I picked a few options where he said he wanted to make Kirkwall a better place.

Plus I wanted the gold the lady in the Hanged Man gives you for killing the bandits. I'm very greedy. I spent 3 days in Lothering just so I could use the Trap girl exploit to get 1500 sovereigns

*lol* I've always used the vendor-exploit myself... it's a lot quicker and doable at any merchant in the game...
I must say without the exploit I never had enough money in Origins. In DA2 I had more money than I could spend...

As for the mobs - I stand by my opinion that there were too many of them in DA2, and the respawning thing was annoying. I would have liked to skip that. Act 3 was way too bloody as well, especially since you have to continuously fight everybody, allied with them or not. It was tedious. I don't like doing the same thing over and over again - and I'm so, so sick of Shades.

true there were too many, I won't deny that. But I don't have a problem myself with killing them if the Captain of the Guard has no problems with it.


I also feel DA2 would've been a much better game had it been the story of Hawke's rise to power over a 5-7 year timeframe, with the last 2 or 3 being DLC expanding on the Champion after the destruction of the Chantry, instead of 8 years and then a few more thrown in as I'm expecting to happen.

[MonkeyLungs]

88mphSlayer wrote...

you could throw in the equivalent of mario invincibility power stars that drop from bosses or dragons as "trophies" or whatever

wearing a trophy instantly reduces the number of encounters, so say in X fantasy game you're in an area populated by pirate red shirts, you kill a top pirate... now realistically, if you're wearing that pirate's head as a trophy on your belt would some red shirts just wanting a few coppers want to attack you? nope, but you might get a few more far harder fanatical pirates or assassins in the place of 50 intimidated red shirts

throw in some "magical" property like breaking the trophy instantly kills all enemies + stops reinforcements in the area if you use it (one time use for each trophy)...

That's a cool idea sir.

[Warheadz]

I must say no. Why? Because combat is a large part of the gameplay. And a good game, especially, a good RPG, should use gameplay and gameplay mechanics as a stroytelling device.

Here's a link to a video that talks about it, as I am too busy to start ranting.

http://www.escapistm...ative-Mechanics

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the video so don't brand me a madman, but still it brings up some good points.

[The Spirit of Dance]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

moilami I'm a "console button smasher" minus the button smashing part. I play DA2 on my PS3. I do in fact care about roleplaying aspects and a world I can truly care about. DA2 combat has it's flaws yes, but so did Origins. DA2 is at least more responsive and it's a step in the right direction to an amazing game with superb combat, even if that step is only a few inches.

same with me if i didn't care about role-playing features i would have never liked origins and not be able to play it so many times. what i want is a game with good enough gameplay and even better story/role-playing.

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

moilami I'm a "console button smasher" minus the button smashing part. I play DA2 on my PS3. I do in fact care about roleplaying aspects and a world I can truly care about. DA2 combat has it's flaws yes, but so did Origins. DA2 is at least more responsive and it's a step in the right direction to an amazing game with superb combat, even if that step is only a few inches.

The mage is not more responsive. If I pause the game and order it to attack a mob with a staff but then chose to run somewhere else instead, unpause the game, what happens is that instead of running somewhere else the mage makes one ridiculous 1337 attack at the mob.

I played DA first in PS3 and cursed all the time I did not have PC version because it was like made to PC. I played the game anyway (on "nightmare") and bought Ultimate Edition for PC because I just had to play the game again in a way it was good to play.

With DA2 I have PC version which is like console version.

BB BW. You wont get money from me anymore.

[MonkeyLungs]

sleepyowlet wrote...

[Hawke lives in the city for years. People are bound to know what you look like. The lemming-bandits don't make sense, especially not in the later acts.  Any normal bandit would run away once they notice that their party is close to being wiped out. Don't those people have any kind of survival-instinct?

This is a really great point and if something along these lines was included in the game it would add to the roleplay experience. However, this adds a layer of DEPTH to the game and requires MORE WORK. So ... probably not going to happen.

[sreaction]

I want to play a game, interact with the world not watch a movie.

[TMZuk]

sleepyowlet wrote...

JoshieoPandar wrote...

It was still a nice break from having being the chosen to defeat an ancient evil business to politics, and friction between people in their daily lives.

True. Except that it just doesn't work in DA2. I found myself thinking again and again that I just wanted to leave this awful place. After the expedition I had my pockets full of gold - and I wanted nothing more than to go back to Ferelden, where even Templars are people, where not every mage is a blood mage, and where I'm not jumped by assassins every time I go to Denerim to do a little shopping.

The you-are-not-the-most-important-person idea is a good one, but you need to give the player a reason to follow your story. I didn't feel like I had one. I just wanted to GTFO.

I wanted to get the hell out as well. Grab Isabela, Varic and Bethany, tell Mum: "We are leaving! Coming or staying?" and then go steal a ship!

[TMZuk]

TileToad wrote...

I think TO is confusing plain adventure games with RPG games. They are two different genres. The other possibility is that perhaps the combat in DA isn't interesting/deep enough for some people. Of course, I can only speculate on that part, but why else would you even bring it up otherwise?

Why else indeed?

The very ~reason~ anyone came up with the idea that skipping combat in DA2 might be a good idea, is that the combat in DA2 is ridiculous and absurd beyond belief.

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

Then you don't press the "skip the combat" button. You just don't do it. Or do you think yoiu have to press it if it exits in game?

Yea that is what makes me wonder. It was the same in the "Fight for the love! threads. People were arguing in favor of same-sex romances and then others would be like "No I don´t want" and we were like "Then don´t choose. It´s an option, not something you´re forced into" and NOONE F*CKING GOT IT.

Unbelievable. One should think anyone able to post on a forum would be intelligent enough to understand the difference between an option and a compulsory part of the game.

But alas, apparently that is not so.

[Galad22]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I liked your ideras for having alternate ways to deal with challenges other than just fighting better.  Much of what you were talking about earlier reminded me of Deus Ex and AP quite a bit.

I think maybe a skip combat button might have deeper ramifications than has been considered though. Anyway your points about more alternatives to combat were aces.

Thank you. I would be really happy if those sort of things were implemented in DA3, I would like it much more than skip combat button.

It is just that in my opinion combat is so frustratingly bad in DA2 that having option to skip fights with those trash bandits that pop up every few second, would have made my gaming experience so much better.

[TEWR]

moilami wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

moilami I'm a "console button smasher" minus the button smashing part. I play DA2 on my PS3. I do in fact care about roleplaying aspects and a world I can truly care about. DA2 combat has it's flaws yes, but so did Origins. DA2 is at least more responsive and it's a step in the right direction to an amazing game with superb combat, even if that step is only a few inches.

The mage is not more responsive. If I pause the game and order it to attack a mob with a staff but then chose to run somewhere else instead, unpause the game, what happens is that instead of running somewhere else the mage makes one ridiculous 1337 attack at the mob.

I played DA first in PS3 and cursed all the time I did not have PC version because it was like made to PC. I played the game anyway (on "nightmare") and bought Ultimate Edition for PC because I just had to play the game again in a way it was good to play.

With DA2 I have PC version which is like console version.

BB BW. You wont get money from me anymore.

that's you being indecisive. "Use Fireball! no wait run over here! no use a heal potion!" Isn't the point of strategizing, knowing your strategy before you execute it?

[Curlain]

TMZuk wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

JoshieoPandar wrote...

It was still a nice break from having being the chosen to defeat an ancient evil business to politics, and friction between people in their daily lives.

True. Except that it just doesn't work in DA2. I found myself thinking again and again that I just wanted to leave this awful place. After the expedition I had my pockets full of gold - and I wanted nothing more than to go back to Ferelden, where even Templars are people, where not every mage is a blood mage, and where I'm not jumped by assassins every time I go to Denerim to do a little shopping.

The you-are-not-the-most-important-person idea is a good one, but you need to give the player a reason to follow your story. I didn't feel like I had one. I just wanted to GTFO.

I wanted to get the hell out as well. Grab Isabela, Varic and Bethany, tell Mum: "We are leaving! Coming or staying?" and then go steal a ship!

Why steal a ship?  We probably had enough money at the end of Act 1 to buy passage on any ship bound for Fereldan (or Orlais, Rivian etc) and get ourselves a nice place far from any Templar base to cause Bethany (or Hawke if Hawke is a mage) any trouble.  Yet we still had to go to the Deep Roads just because.  

[AkiKishi]

Brenus wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Again, the no encounters skill in FF =/= skip combat button. You actually need to spend some time developing the skill, just like you have to develop stealth skills in stealth RPGs and games.

Or just buy the item from a vendor. It depends on the game.

I only played FF8, and yes the no encounters skill was a godsend when running from one point to the next on the world map without wanting to fight trash, but thats because of the number of random encounters that would occur in that game.

It still dodnt allow you skip the main combat and boss fights, only the crappy random monsters on the world map. 

See, with scaling you don't need levels to beat boses anyway. That's how it differs from FF.

[Tirigon]

sreaction wrote...

I want to play a game, interact with the world not watch a movie.

And why does that "interaction" need to be "I hit 50 enemies and they turn to goo"? Could it not as well consist of, for example, convincing them that what they do is evil and that they should use their fighting experience to defend Kirkwall and it´s citizens instead of rob them?

[Tirigon]

Warheadz wrote...

I must say no. Why? Because combat is a large part of the gameplay. And a good game, especially, a good RPG, should use gameplay and gameplay mechanics as a stroytelling device.

Here's a link to a video that talks about it, as I am too busy to start ranting.

http://www.escapistm...ative-Mechanics

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with the video so don't brand me a madman, but still it brings up some good points.

While I found this quite interesting to watch I don´t really see the relevance to this thread.