594 réponses à ce sujet

[sleepyowlet]

truestatic wrote...

I feel like if people expect medieval RPG video games without combat, that gives them totally free options of how to solve any problem, with an enormous degree of freedom in how you say, the opportunity to voice your own character etc. etc etc...

They should really find a group of people near them and play pencil and paper D&D. This is not sarcasm. This is honest suggestion. It seems like what they really want can never be truly satisfied by a video game, where even a grand degree of choice is still limited by what someone else thought to provide you with. Guys, if you wanna play a roleplaying game, then go play a roleplaying game. You won't regret it.

You know, I totally see your point. Thing is, I don't have the kind of schedule that allows for regular meetings, and neither do my friends (we have trouble keeping our band going due to clashing schedules), so I'd love to P&P again, but I can't. CRPGs are a substitute for me, and in the past that has worked out reasonably well. Sure, CRPGs will always be more limited than P&P RPGs, but as many good games have shown in the past, they don't need to be as limited as DA2.

[Goldfinger168]

truestatic wrote...

I feel like if people expect medieval RPG video games without combat, that gives them totally free options of how to solve any problem, with an enormous degree of freedom in how you say, the opportunity to voice your own character etc. etc etc...

They should really find a group of people near them and play pencil and paper D&D. This is not sarcasm. This is honest suggestion. It seems like what they really want can never be truly satisfied by a video game, where even a grand degree of choice is still limited by what someone else thought to provide you with. Guys, if you wanna play a roleplaying game, then go play a roleplaying game. You won't regret it.

Games like Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate, Torment and others have managed to do this with decent results. And DA:O at least tried sometimes. Is there a particular reason why video games can't be ambitious anymore ? Sure, cRPGs can't have the same array of possibilities as P&P, but they could bring things to the table that P&P can't.

EDIT : ninja'd by sleepyowlet

Modifié par Goldfinger168, 22 mars 2011 - 11:30 .

[moilami]

Sir Jools wrote...

Cutscene: a group of darkspawn charges at you.

Dialogue wheel pops up:

- Hi! [nice]
- Look, we want no trouble, here's our money... [smart]
- Die, soulless scum! [mean]
- [Kiss the emissary]. [heart]

I can see how it would totally work.

I can see you have only played DA etc.

[moilami]

sleepyowlet wrote...

truestatic wrote...

I feel like if people expect medieval RPG video games without combat, that gives them totally free options of how to solve any problem, with an enormous degree of freedom in how you say, the opportunity to voice your own character etc. etc etc...

They should really find a group of people near them and play pencil and paper D&D. This is not sarcasm. This is honest suggestion. It seems like what they really want can never be truly satisfied by a video game, where even a grand degree of choice is still limited by what someone else thought to provide you with. Guys, if you wanna play a roleplaying game, then go play a roleplaying game. You won't regret it.

You know, I totally see your point. Thing is, I don't have the kind of schedule that allows for regular meetings, and neither do my friends (we have trouble keeping our band going due to clashing schedules), so I'd love to P&P again, but I can't. CRPGs are a substitute for me, and in the past that has worked out reasonably well. Sure, CRPGs will always be more limited than P&P RPGs, but as many good games have shown in the past, they don't need to be as limited as DA2.

Word is dumbed down.

DA was fine interactive adventure.

[TEWR]

at galad22, it wouldn't make the game any less enjoyable. But what it would do is ****** me off to come onto the forums to find the same people who WANTED this option implemented now blaming the developers for adding it. That hypocrisy would ****** me off.

at Moilami, if you're done with the DA series, why are you asking for an option to be implemented into the next game? Why didn't you let someone else bring it up? Why do you care so much about a game series that you are done with?

[Gamejudge]

I, Nabende, fully support having a skip the combat option in the next dragon age game.

The combat in this game makes the game unplayable. I'm not going to buy the next DA game, or more accurately any bioware game, but it doesn't change the fact that I could deal with this game had there been a skip option.

[AkiKishi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at galad22, it wouldn't make the game any less enjoyable. But what it would do is ****** me off to come onto the forums to find the same people who WANTED this option implemented now blaming the developers for adding it. That hypocrisy would ****** me off.

at Moilami, if you're done with the DA series, why are you asking for an option to be implemented into the next game? Why didn't you let someone else bring it up? Why do you care so much about a game series that you are done with?

It's an option not a requirement.  People who complain because they used it will get laughed at and rightly so.
Combat in DA2 is not optional, it's bad and it drags the game down with it's endless waves of trash, being able to skip it would be a good thing.

[Tirigon]

LordPaul256 wrote...

Because it's part of the medium.  If you don't want gameplay, then you're in the wrong medium for storytelling.

[...]

I want GOOOD gameplay, not the horrible fail-gore-fest better known as DA2 combat.

Not to mention how weak the whole plot of these games would be if you didn't have the emotoinal build-up and release from fighting your way through these epic battles.  Can you imagine how the battle of the Circle Tower in DA1 would go if you just skipped all the combat?

Scene 1 - The tower is full of abominations!  You want to go in?  Fine, I'll help you if you kill everyone.  Crazy bastard.
Scene 2 - Wow.  That was intense.  Everything's back to normal.  Thanks.

Elapsed time - 2-3 minutes. 

Fighting if it belongs to the story is ok for me. Fighting these abominations makes sense because they are, by their nature, not someone you can talk with. Similarly, I doubt anyone would want to skip the fight against archdemon in DAO.
But, again, WHAT IS THE F*CKING POINT TO ALL THOSE BANDITS IN NIGHTLY KIRKWALL?! It just ruins every bit of realism and immersion.
(by the way, the same goes for the "random encounters" in DAO, but at least DAO had a better combat system and they weren´t as often so I didn´t mind.... much)

Seriously, I don't even get how this is an argument.  The whole Act 1 of DA2 would be even worse than that example, like I've mentioned earlier.  It's like recommending they take the illustrations out of comic books.

That says more about how bad Act 1 in DA2 is than about our suggestion. GOOD parts of the game can go without any fighting (for example, I yesterday restarted DAO as mage and the entire combat in the Origin could have been skipped without making it less interesting).

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at galad22, it wouldn't make the game any less enjoyable. But what it would do is ****** me off to come onto the forums to find the same people who WANTED this option implemented now blaming the developers for adding it. That hypocrisy would ****** me off.

at Moilami, if you're done with the DA series, why are you asking for an option to be implemented into the next game? Why didn't you let someone else bring it up? Why do you care so much about a game series that you are done with?

I really don't care.

I just have a habit to be both critical and constructive even if I would gain nothing of it.

[MonkeyLungs]

winterborn_89 wrote...

This whole topic makes me want to blow chunks. No one would have even had this thought when Origins was out. The ability to skip combat is sacrilege and whoever suggests it is a true noob. Granted... DA2 is a special case as the combat is awful.

One of the writers who worked on this very game, suggested it.

[MonkeyLungs]

Goldfinger168 wrote...

RageGT wrote...

As long as it does not screws the game for those who actually want to play a game and not an interactive movie. I'd rather read a book or watch a good movie. My games, I like to play them. Does P&P RPG's have a skip-fight option?

P&P RPGs often have skills that are not combat-related and allow to handle some situations differently. Some don't even have combat as a main focus.
Also, a good DM will not have mandatory encounters that don't fit the setting or the story. In DA2, you have to fight through every quest, even when the most sensible approach would not involve combat. Would a good DM have you fight a band of thirty crappy thugs everytime you walk in the street at night ?

Gameplay in RPGs can and should have more layers than just combat, combat and combat. DA2 has much to learn from P&P in that respect.

Yes, DA2 without combat would be a shallow game. But DA2 with combat is already mostly a shallow game, just more tedious.

Trash mob encounters are simple to develop for. It's one of the primary reasons they exist in so many games. It requires alot less work than actually designing realistic interactions between the NPC's and the PC.

[MonkeyLungs]

truestatic wrote...

I feel like if people expect medieval RPG video games without combat, that gives them totally free options of how to solve any problem, with an enormous degree of freedom in how you say, the opportunity to voice your own character etc. etc etc...

They should really find a group of people near them and play pencil and paper D&D. This is not sarcasm. This is honest suggestion. It seems like what they really want can never be truly satisfied by a video game, where even a grand degree of choice is still limited by what someone else thought to provide you with. Guys, if you wanna play a roleplaying game, then go play a roleplaying game. You won't regret it.

Do you feel that it is impossible or just impractical for a computer game developer (including consoles here) to include encounters that have the possibility of being solved in multiple ways?

[GRX Dragon]

No, you want to watch a movie, go watch a movie. Video games != movies.

Medhia Nox wrote...

I'd rather they make it where my character can solve problems without being a petty dungeon crawling mercenary.

That I can understand, as it's quite logical.

[thatsnotfreeballin]

Are you serious? Why do you even play games then? Go watch a movie if you don't want combat in an RPG. Jesus, I can't believe you guys are serious...

[Darkest Dreamer]

thatsnotfreeballin wrote...

Are you serious? Why do you even play games then? Go watch a movie if you don't want combat in an RPG. Jesus, I can't believe you guys are serious...

And this is why the argument will be neverending, hackneyed replies by posters who aren't bothered to read beyond the first page.

A game without combat is hardly a movie, or book. And if I have to explain how or why, then I've already lost that remaining bit of faith I still had in the human race.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 22 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[TEWR]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

A game without combat is hardly a movie, or book.

It still takes away a very core component of the game at the very least, optional or no.

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

And if I have to explain how or why, then I've already lost that remaining bit of faith I still had in the human race.

my faith in humanity died a long time ago. And I'm only 18, so that's sad.

[moilami]

One way to do "skip the combat" button would be to give the player Banhammer and put additional loading screen text "if combat sucks, just use the Banhammer and do with one click what would require otherwise 100 repetative clicks".

[Darkest Dreamer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It still takes away a very core component of the game at the very least, optional or no.

And therein lies the problem, this belief that the game revolves around combat or that it's essential when there are players perfectly capable of enjoying it without said tedium. Simply because some don't understand how hardly makes for a compelling argument.

And of course there's a difference if it's "optional or no", it's the difference between allowing one to ignore it or forcing it on an unwilling player-base. The prevailing attitude where others lash out simply because it goes against the grain or condemn it on nothing more than principle or sentimentality is close to baffling.
 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

my faith in humanity died a long time ago. And I'm only 18, so that's sad.

Just don't get an ulcer over it.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 22 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[Galad22]

GRX Dragon wrote...

No, you want to watch a movie, go watch a movie. Video games != movies.

This again. I should begin to count how many times different people have said this.

Seriously find a proper argument if you really have to oppose this.

Modifié par Galad22, 22 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[moilami]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It still takes away a very core component of the game at the very least, optional or no.

And therein lies the problem, this belief that the game revolves around combat or that it's essential when there are players perfectly capable of enjoying it without said tedium. Simply because some don't understand how hardly makes for a compelling argument.

And of course there's a difference if it's "optional or no", it's the difference between allowing one to ignore it or forcing it on an unwilling player-base. The prevailing attitude where others lash out simply because it goes against the grain or condemn it on nothing more than principle or sentimentality is close to baffling.
 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

my faith in humanity died a long time ago. And I'm only 18, so that's sad.

Just don't get an ulcer over it.

I'd say was about the time. Took long! Now just remember world is not black & white and faith is for weak.

[baryonic member]

That would've been a God's sent, just being able to skip through the pointless fights with everspawning thugs and whatnot, the consequence being that you won't gain experience.

[MonkeyLungs]

The game scales so no real need to grind experience anyway from what I understand. I think it should give players exp and itmes anyways though. Why not, are you afraid of change?

[Tirigon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It still takes away a very core component of the game at the very least, optional or no.

It still would take away a core component from a hack´n´slash or RTS game. But we´re talking RPG here. Since when is combat important for playing a role?

[Taleroth]

Tirigon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It still takes away a very core component of the game at the very least, optional or no.

It still would take away a core component from a hack´n´slash or RTS game. But we´re talking RPG here. Since when is combat important for playing a role?

We're not "talking RPG here."  Genre definitions are meaningless when you use them this way.  They organize reference and relation, they do not define the boundaries of.  The core component of Dragon Age is the combat.

Modifié par Taleroth, 22 mars 2011 - 08:26 .

[Kklathan]

I think a skip the combat button is not the best way to do things. If you are interested in a character that works his way though conflicts with dialog and or inventive solutions (stealth, traps, hireing an assassin etc) then imho you should. BUT. I think that a stat or stats should be created for that and if you want to have a golden voice then it should come at the cost of decreased combat stats. I dont think that a "skip the combat" button is the best answer if you want to play a non typical combat toon.