594 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Taleroth wrote...

The core component of Dragon Age is the combat.

In DA2 maybe, which is the main reason why it sucks. But not in DAO.

[MonkeyLungs]

Kklathan wrote...

I think a skip the combat button is not the best way to do things. If you are interested in a character that works his way though conflicts with dialog and or inventive solutions (stealth, traps, hireing an assassin etc) then imho you should. BUT. I think that a stat or stats should be created for that and if you want to have a golden voice then it should come at the cost of decreased combat stats. I dont think that a "skip the combat" button is the best answer if you want to play a non typical combat toon.

I think many would find this suggestion to be preferable but a solution like this is very difficult to implement, probably too difficult for Bioware to pull off. It's really just too much work that is unecessary because it primarily only makes the old fans, who are afraid of change, happy. Like me, except I don't matter because I like antiquated RPG systems that just aren't 'fun' anymore and my expectations just hold Bioware back.

[Galad22]

Taleroth wrote...
 We're not "talking RPG here."  Genre definitions are meaningless when you use them this way.  They organize reference and relation, they do not define the boundaries of.  The core component of Dragon Age is the combat.

Sure but that is more of a fault in DA2 than anything else. And since it is so badly done I wouldn't miss it.

In rpgs only core component should not be combat. Bioware seems to have forgotten this however.

[moilami]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Kklathan wrote...

I think a skip the combat button is not the best way to do things. If you are interested in a character that works his way though conflicts with dialog and or inventive solutions (stealth, traps, hireing an assassin etc) then imho you should. BUT. I think that a stat or stats should be created for that and if you want to have a golden voice then it should come at the cost of decreased combat stats. I dont think that a "skip the combat" button is the best answer if you want to play a non typical combat toon.

I think many would find this suggestion to be preferable but a solution like this is very difficult to implement, probably too difficult for Bioware to pull off. It's really just too much work that is unecessary because it primarily only makes the old fans, who are afraid of change, happy. Like me, except I don't matter because I like antiquated RPG systems that just aren't 'fun' anymore and my expectations just hold Bioware back.

Could not had said it better.

[TEWR]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

And therein lies the problem, this belief that the game revolves around combat or that it's essential when there are players perfectly capable of enjoying it without said tedium. Simply because some don't understand how hardly makes for a compelling argument.

And of course there's a difference if it's "optional or no", it's the difference between allowing one to ignore it or forcing it on an unwilling player-base. The prevailing attitude where others lash out simply because it goes against the grain or condemn it on nothing more than principle or sentimentality is close to baffling.
 

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Granted you could reload a previous save if you didn't like it and clear it out on your own, but would you like that it was implemented and considered a good idea?

yes the game doesn't revolve around combat, but it helps to allow you to become your character, where you feel like you're the one killing what needs to be killed and letting live what needs to live. It is in fact a core component, something necessary to exist within the game, that will let you enjoy it so much more.

[Aesieru]

moilami wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Kklathan wrote...

I think a skip the combat button is not the best way to do things. If you are interested in a character that works his way though conflicts with dialog and or inventive solutions (stealth, traps, hireing an assassin etc) then imho you should. BUT. I think that a stat or stats should be created for that and if you want to have a golden voice then it should come at the cost of decreased combat stats. I dont think that a "skip the combat" button is the best answer if you want to play a non typical combat toon.

I think many would find this suggestion to be preferable but a solution like this is very difficult to implement, probably too difficult for Bioware to pull off. It's really just too much work that is unecessary because it primarily only makes the old fans, who are afraid of change, happy. Like me, except I don't matter because I like antiquated RPG systems that just aren't 'fun' anymore and my expectations just hold Bioware back.

Could not had said it better.

Except that it's not truly being held back to have "more advanced features", which is a sign of evolution and progression, but simply requiring them to spend more time and effort on making something "good" rather than average.

Which I was pretty sure was the difference between AA and AAA games...

Guess AA and AAA companies are reversed.

LESS IS MORE ADVANCED.

[moilami]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

And therein lies the problem, this belief that the game revolves around combat or that it's essential when there are players perfectly capable of enjoying it without said tedium. Simply because some don't understand how hardly makes for a compelling argument.

And of course there's a difference if it's "optional or no", it's the difference between allowing one to ignore it or forcing it on an unwilling player-base. The prevailing attitude where others lash out simply because it goes against the grain or condemn it on nothing more than principle or sentimentality is close to baffling.
 

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Granted you could reload a previous save if you didn't like it and clear it out on your own, but would you like that it was implemented and considered a good idea?

yes the game doesn't revolve around combat, but it helps to allow you to become your character, where you feel like you're the one killing what needs to be killed and letting live what needs to live. It is in fact a core component, something necessary to exist within the game, that will let you enjoy it so much more.

I have never skipped fade, and I don't have plans to skip it.

[Tirigon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Slightly off-topic, but what´s so bad about the fade?

Except for the difficulty being waaaay too low even on nightmare, I found it one of the best places in DAO.
Shapechanging was awesome, and the Fade art design is simply epic imo.
Would have loved even more Fade parts, to be honest.

[TEWR]

Moilami wrote...

I have never skipped fade, and I don't have plans to skip it.

I can never skip it. I have the PS3 version of Origins, not the PC version (I've played the PC version though. Borrowed a friend's for a while) so I can't use the "Skip the Fade" mod that gives you all the stat boosts and whatnot.

[TEWR]

Tirigon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Slightly off-topic, but what´s so bad about the fade?

Except for the difficulty being waaaay too low even on nightmare, I found it one of the best places in DAO.
Shapechanging was awesome, and the Fade art design is simply epic imo.
Would have loved even more Fade parts, to be honest.

It was just very.... monotonous? I think that word works, I'm drawing a blank right now. Anyway, it just got old and it was going from Point A to D to Z back to A, then going to Point R, and finally to Point 9. While very well done and beautifully shown, it was too long because of all the jumping between Fade islands.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[Aesieru]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Slightly off-topic, but what´s so bad about the fade?

Except for the difficulty being waaaay too low even on nightmare, I found it one of the best places in DAO.
Shapechanging was awesome, and the Fade art design is simply epic imo.
Would have loved even more Fade parts, to be honest.

It was just very.... monotonous? I think that word works, I'm drawing a blank right now. Anyway, it just got old and it was going from Point A to D to Z back to A, then going to Point R, and finally back to Point 9. While very well done and beautifully shown, it was too long because of all the jumping between Fade islands.

It was tedious, unneeded, and outside of the initial novelty of entering the fade, there was truly no purpose to make it that long and it had no story aspect of benefit either.

[MonkeyLungs]

I thought the fade was awesome in DA:O.

[Darkest Dreamer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Simply because you feel it's grand, doesn't mean I do. I remember a few times when I was just happy to get the combat out of the way. Honestly, I answered this in my first reply to you.

Granted you could reload a previous save if you didn't like it and clear it out on your own, but would you like that it was implemented and considered a good idea?

Yes, I feel it'd be nice if combat was implemented. It's always nice to allow players "options" such as, say, a way in which to skip combat. I don't remember where I said "combat was bad" but I do remember pointing out that simply because you enjoy it, doesn't mean others do.

yes the game doesn't revolve around combat, but it helps to allow you to become your character, where you feel like you're the one killing what needs to be killed and letting live what needs to live. It is in fact a core component, something necessary to exist within the game, that will let you enjoy it so much more.

I'm sure it is a core component, to you. All I can do is point out how it's not, to me. I really don't equate running around silly and slashing things at random, or button mashing spells and abilities, with "getting into character". I could go so far as to say that I might even lose any sense of character as I try to work out the mechanics and the best way to utilise them.

And what's so wrong with the fade?

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but would you enjoy this option, say if you used it, if it was in DA:O (don't say the Fade, everyone wanted to skip that after the first playthrough). Would you feel like you've accomplished something grand for say, clearing out the Tower of Ishal?

Slightly off-topic, but what´s so bad about the fade?

Except for the difficulty being waaaay too low even on nightmare, I found it one of the best places in DAO.
Shapechanging was awesome, and the Fade art design is simply epic imo.
Would have loved even more Fade parts, to be honest.

Fade is rare change for me to go druidy that is shapeshift.

[Taleroth]

Galad22 wrote...

In rpgs only core component should not be combat. 

Genre names describe, they do not proscribe.  Saying that a genre should X is only showing that you simply need to stop calling games by that genre.

Tirigon wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

The core component of Dragon Age is the combat.

In DA2 maybe, which is the main reason why it sucks. But not in DAO.

In DAO too.  The sole social skill in the game is 4 points deep.  It is not a social RPG.  It's a dungeon romp.

Modifié par Taleroth, 22 mars 2011 - 09:20 .

[Tirigon]

Aesieru wrote...

It was tedious, unneeded, and outside of the initial novelty of entering the fade, there was truly no purpose to make it that long and it had no story aspect of benefit either.

So, in effect, you say it was like DA2 combat only with a slight novelty attached.

Yet you want to skip the Fade but don´t want to allow us skipping combat?

That´s mean, good ser:(

[Tirigon]

Taleroth wrote...
In DAO too.  The sole social skill in the game is 4 points deep.  It is not a social RPG.  It's a dungeon romp.

But combat in DAO serves a purpose. For the most part anyway.
I agree that there are some mistakes in DAO already, that´s true, but it´s not nearly as bad as in DA2.

[the_one_54321]

Just my $0.02 here.

If you want to skip combat you should not be playing an RPG.
If you want to skip dialog you should not be playing an RPG.

[Aesieru]

Tirigon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

It was tedious, unneeded, and outside of the initial novelty of entering the fade, there was truly no purpose to make it that long and it had no story aspect of benefit either.

So, in effect, you say it was like DA2 combat only with a slight novelty attached.

Yet you want to skip the Fade but don´t want to allow us skipping combat?

That´s mean, good ser:(

I don't want to skip it, but I know it was designed poorly.

[Galad22]

Taleroth wrote...
Genre names describe, they do not proscribe.  Saying that a genre should X is only showing that you simply need to stop calling games by that genre.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here.

[the_one_54321]

Aesieru wrote...
I don't want to skip it, but I know it was designed poorly.

The Fade was designed poorly? I dearly hope that if you're going to make a claim like that, you plan to thoroughly back it up with an in depth explanation.

[Darkest Dreamer]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Just my $0.02 here.

If you want to skip combat you should not be playing an RPG.
If you want to skip dialog you should not be playing an RPG.

Absolutes make for a terrible argument.

I'm not going to give up on a game (or an ENTIRE genre) that I enjoy simply because I don't like an element of it.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 22 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[the_one_54321]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Just my $0.02 here.

If you want to skip combat you should not be playing an RPG.
If you want to skip dialog you should not be playing an RPG.

Absolutes make for a terrible argument.

I'm not going to give up on a game that I enjoy simply because I don't like an element of it.

There are games that are entirley combat. And there are games that are entirely dialog.
In each of these areas, there are developers that do each specific feature better than BioWare does.

Why, if you only want one element, are you going to focus on a developer that does a less than perfect job and also always includes that element that you are not interested in.

The "I only care about the story" crowd and the "I only care about improved combat" crowd make absolutely zero sense.

[TEWR]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...


Simply because you feel it's grand, doesn't mean I do. I remember a few times when I was just happy to get the combat out of the way. Honestly, I answered this in my first reply to you.

So what do you consider a grand accomplishment? The High Dragon in DA:O? The Archdemon? Apply what I said about the Tower of Ishal to those if you consider them grand.

Yes, I feel it'd be nice if combat was implemented. It's always nice to allow players "options" such as, say, a way in which to skip combat. I don't remember where I said "combat was bad" but I do remember pointing out that simply because you enjoy it, doesn't mean others do.

I don't recall ever saying that people should enjoy combat because I do. If you can point out where I said that clearly go ahead. Options are indeed great to have in theory, but not all options will be amazing and loved. Some will be hated, despised for even being considered to be good ideas. Sometimes by the people who wanted those options. But I've made that point before and I don't really think it's relevant to this comment.

I'm sure it is a core component, to you. All I can do is point out how it's not, to me. I really don't equate running around silly and slashing things at random, or button mashing spells and abilities, with "getting into character". I could go so far as to say that I might even lose any sense of character as I try to work out the mechanics and the best way to utilise them.

It is indeed a core component to me, because otherwise I'd feel like I'm watching someone else's life and not shaping it on my own, even if I'm picking what my character says. And combat is a core component of RPGs, and of other genres. Maybe you don't see it as such, but that doesn't change it as actually being so.

And what's so wrong with the fade?

I loved the Fade on my 1st playthrough, but afterwards I started to hate it. Many other people, at least on the various threads here (not just this thread, but all the others), have also shown hatred of the Fade. It's personal preference, but most people it seems hate the Fade in DA:O.

I do like the DA2 and DA:OA versions of the Fade. Short, straightforward, and fun.

[Darkest Dreamer]

the_one_54321 wrote...

There are games that are entirley combat. And there are games that are entirely dialog.
In each of these areas, there are developers that do each specific feature better than BioWare does.

Or not. Or, if they do, they miss bits and pieces which Bioware includes that I enjoy.

Why, if you only want one element, are you going to focus on a developer that does a less than perfect job and also always includes that element that you are not interested in. The "I only care about the story" crowd and the "I only care about improved combat" crowd make absolutely zero sense.

Because they're not searching for perfection? That's a slightly bizarre opinion. I have no need for perfection and, again, I don't see why I should give up on a game or entire genre simply because I don't like an element of it.