594 réponses à ce sujet

[Tripedius]

moilami wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

moilami wrote...

Eber wrote...

Set the difficulty to casual. Get a save file editor and give yourself 1000 attribute points and 100 skill points or some such. It's close to skipping battle and it's the only way I play the Witcher and my preferred way of playing Dragon Age 2. Unfortunately because of the waves cleaning up still takes some time.

Edit:  Or better yet activate the developer console and create a macro that types ~runscript killallhostiles. Tie it to a button of choice (mouse buttons are convenient) and there you go, a skip combat button!

No I am a paying customer and I demand "skip the combat" button on DA3. Everyone does not want to fight. Combat should be optional gaming experience for those who think it is essential in RPGs. 

What's next a FPS without guns? A RTS without units? The paying customer thing doesn't work btw, if you don't like it don't buy it, nobody is forcing you to. Go play the sims or something and don't try and ruin a genre for those who do like it. It like saying I want a horror movie that doesn't scare me, cause some people like horror but don't want to be scared. RPG's totally without combat would be just RP-ing and it would be a visual novell not a game.
So shove the paying customer part and don't buy any rpg-games there is combat in it.

You are talking about shooters and dumbed down RPGs better called arcade adventures. In RPGs avoiding combat is a perfect feature. In arcade adventures you are not supposed to be able to avoid combat.

If paying customer does not work then all who bought the game have no rights to say opinions. Only those who did not buy the game can.

You can have an opinion and critism on a game if you bought it, but you can't use the argument that they have to change something cause your a paying customer. There is a big difference. So you can say I don't like the fighting in a game I bought, you can't say they have to chance it because I bought the game or will buy their game.

The answer to the other thing is actually in your post, an arcade adventure is a dumbed down RPG, so not a full blown rpg. Combat, fighting and becoming more powerfull is an integral part of a rpg. A rpg without combat doesn't exist as it can no longer be defined as a rpg. You are looking for a visual noval or an adventure game (who often come without or with minimal combat). This does not exclude the option to resolve things peacefully, but conflict/combat is inherent to a rpg and skipping that would be silly. You would be better of with other games than a rpg, than trying to ruin games for other people. Cutting the story out, the devellopment or the combat would no longer make it a rpg. But I guess some people don't really want a game or challenge they just want to press random buttons as a relax therapy or something.

[Tirigon]

To sum everyone disagreeing with this suggestion up:

BWAAAAHAAAAAHHAAAAA I DONT LIKE YOU! THAT´S SH!T!!!!! Don´t ruin my game with OPTIONS, FFS!

[Tripedius]

Tirigon wrote...

To sum everyone disagreeing with this suggestion up:

BWAAAAHAAAAAHHAAAAA I DONT LIKE YOU! THAT´S SH!T!!!!! Don´t ruin my game with OPTIONS, FFS!

And to sum up all those that agree:

BWAAHAHAAHA, this is not the game I want to play, it's crap, so change it into something else so I can play it.

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

[Tirigon]

Tripedius wrote...

And to sum up all those that agree:
BWAAHAHAAHA, this is not the game I want to play, it's crap, so change it into something else so I can play it.

Which is, actually, a sensible suggestion.

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

NOT

[moilami]

Tripedius wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

To sum everyone disagreeing with this suggestion up:

BWAAAAHAAAAAHHAAAAA I DONT LIKE YOU! THAT´S SH!T!!!!! Don´t ruin my game with OPTIONS, FFS!

And to sum up all those that agree:

BWAAHAHAAHA, this is not the game I want to play, it's crap, so change it into something else so I can play it.

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

Ever thought that you could also use the button? Or if you don't want to use it, then why none else should be able to use it?

Why you want to say how I should play my game? It is not your job.

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

And to sum up all those that agree:
BWAAHAHAAHA, this is not the game I want to play, it's crap, so change it into something else so I can play it.

Which is, actually, a sensible suggestion.

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

NOT

Anyone who has ever said of any game there is too much combat or combat is too hard or combat is boring has said secretly "yes" to skip the combat button.


Edit: Some of them then do it in forums consciously, and as a result games get dumbed down even further. Better make the button so they can be answered "skip the combat then". 

Modifié par moilami, 23 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[Goldfinger168]

Tripedius wrote...
Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

Not really. Most haven't actually read the thread and their arguments are variations on "read a book" and "RPGs must have combat".

This is obviously a quite trollish thread, but it raises interesting questions nonetheless.

[Tripedius]

@tirigon and moilami (actually your sig says it all). It's not a sensible sugestion and it's not me describing how to play your games. You want totally different games, not rpg's. It's like buying a fridge and wanting it not to cool but to heat up.
If you don't want combat, buy a game without combat, no need to have a button to skip it then. Would it also be sensible to have a skip button in crises 2? So you can enjoy the story but not the shooting? What defines a game?
I get really sick and tired from people who actually don't enjoy games or particular kind of games who instead of thinking 'this is not for me' start to whine and want it be altered just for them. It's like 'I bought a car, but I don't want to abuse the enviroment so I want to skip the engine part and use it as a bike. So it's not a sensible suggestion to alter games to something they we're not ment to be, just so you like it, you just don't play the game. Western individualism has gone to far. It like reading Harry Potter but you don't like magic so you want christian hymes instead. It changes the thing that makes it what it is. A rpg without combat is not a rpg. If you want to play a game expect a challenge, if you don't want a challenge go watch a movie or something.

@Moilami, your reasoning is silly, better take that debating class again.

[Goldfinger168]

Tripedius wrote...
If you want to play a game expect a challenge, if you don't want a challenge go watch a movie or something.

That's not what is being discussed in this thread. People don't want to skip the challenge. They want to skip some of the combat because it diminishes the overall experience by being poorly designed in several aspects.

[Tripedius]

Goldfinger168 wrote...

Tripedius wrote...
If you want to play a game expect a challenge, if you don't want a challenge go watch a movie or something.

That's not what is being discussed in this thread. People don't want to skip the challenge. They want to skip some of the combat because it diminishes the overall experience by being poorly designed in several aspects.

Well that's your take on things. But ofc it's very logical to call for a skip combat button instead of better combat. See the flaws in your reasoning? The brakes on my car aren't very good, I've asked Toyota to make it possible to skip the brakes altogether.

Modifié par Tripedius, 23 mars 2011 - 03:10 .

[TEWR]

Goldfinger168 wrote...

Tripedius wrote...
If you want to play a game expect a challenge, if you don't want a challenge go watch a movie or something.

That's not what is being discussed in this thread. People don't want to skip the challenge. They want to skip some of the combat because it diminishes the overall experience by being poorly designed in several aspects.

according to what? DA2 as your only example of a Bioware game with bad combat? Instead of saying to the developers "give us a skip the combat button" where they will probably make combat even worse if they do in fact add this, why don't you say "Can you guys actually make combat difficult and tactical if you're going to make it more fluid?" Because they did mess up in most areas of combat in DA2 I'll admit, but they also succeeded in a few areas as well.

When there are 3 Dragon Age games with horrible, unlovable, unbearable combat (to you, I don't mind the combat save for the exploding goop enemies); then you can ask for this. But until then, one example is not enough because asking for this will in fact run the risk of combat becoming even worse.

[Darkest Dreamer]

Tripedius wrote...

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

Hardly...

Most of us arguing for the suggestion have already come to terms with the fact that it will never happen, so this is really just for interest's sake. It's also fairly telling when the other side, more often than not, has little to offer the debate but exaggeration, soothsaying and insults.

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 23 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[TEWR]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

Also notice how the people that disagree with this suggestion are better at constructing arguments and are generally nicer.  

Hardly...

Most of us arguing for the suggestion have already come to terms with the fact that it will never happen, so this is really just for interest's sake. It's also fairly telling when the other side, more often than not, has little to offer the debate but exaggeration, soothsaying and insults.

Beware the ides of March!!



That felt appropriate to say even though the ides have passed.

[Shinimas]

Agreed. We should also get an "skip all but cutscenes" option. Also, the game should auto-delete itself after the first watch... I mean play through. You buy another ticket if you want to see the movie, again, right?

[Galad22]

Shinimas wrote...

Agreed. We should also get an "skip all but cutscenes" option. Also, the game should auto-delete itself after the first watch... I mean play through. You buy another ticket if you want to see the movie, again, right?

And this again.

And Tripedius says that people who disagree are better with arguments.

[Shinimas]

Galad22 wrote...

Shinimas wrote...

Agreed. We should also get an "skip all but cutscenes" option. Also, the game should auto-delete itself after the first watch... I mean play through. You buy another ticket if you want to see the movie, again, right?

And this again.

And Tripedius says that people who disagree are better with arguments.

You want me to seriously argue against RPG games becoming full time machinimas?

At first I thought the thread was trolling, but damn, that's really sad. Even though BW's been moving towards becoming a cartoon-making company, with their "less gameplay - more cinematics" approach, but for people to actually want it to be this way? Oh boy.

[Galad22]

Shinimas wrote...

You want me to seriously argue against RPG games becoming full time machinimas?

At first I thought the thread was trolling, but damn, that's really sad. Even though BW's been moving towards becoming a cartoon-making company, with their "less gameplay - more cinematics" approach, but for people to actually want it to be this way? Oh boy.

Half of the arguments from people who are against this have had that same argument.

Go watch a movie. Not very helpful.

In case you don't have time to read through this thread.

I put few of the arguments of those who support this here.

1. DA2 combat really sucks, it is tedious and annoying.
2. It would not make your gaming experience any worse, if this was implemented. So why not.
3. Most people who support this, agree that they would more likely want different ways to avoid combat that are build directly to the game. Diplomacy, stealth, subterfuge etc.
4. Since 3 is not likely to happen, since it would take some effort and work on Biowares part, skip combat putton simply is more easier to implement.
5. Gameplay does not equal combat. So saying that go watch a movie is somehow similar than this game would be if this was implemented is just factually wrong.

[moilami]

Goldfinger168 wrote...

Tripedius wrote...
If you want to play a game expect a challenge, if you don't want a challenge go watch a movie or something.

That's not what is being discussed in this thread. People don't want to skip the challenge. They want to skip some of the combat because it diminishes the overall experience by being poorly designed in several aspects.

If I want challenge from games I go play IL-2 online. The only challenge I can get from DA2 is how to tolerate the braindead combat and braindead world to see the story. Can't even speak about experiencing the story because lack of immersion is so challenging.

[Goldfinger168]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
according to what? DA2 as your only example of a Bioware game with bad combat?

DA:O was already on a slippery slope. Many people would have skipped an encounter or two in the Deep Roads, or in the very long dungeons if given the chance. DA2 went further with more filler combat and "ANOTHER WAVE".
DA3 improving the combat is just wishful thinking at this point.
Bioware's standards are getting lower and people just accepting it is what will make the combat worse in the future.

Modifié par Goldfinger168, 23 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[TEWR]

Galad22 wrote....

they would more likely want different ways to avoid combat that are build directly to the game. Diplomacy, stealth, subterfuge etc

I too would like to see this instead of this "skip combat" idea. Also, I'd say I've been trying to hold up a very civil and real argument as to why it shouldn't be implemented. I don't think I've once said "go watch a movie"

Goldfinger with a bunch of numbers (sorry, I don't remember your whole name) wrote.....


Many people would have skipped an encounter or two in the Deep Roads, or in the very long dungeons if given the chance. DA2 went further with more filler combat and "ANOTHER WAVE".

Show me the proof that people disliked Origins' combat. I didn't like the combat myself (meaning the swinging of weapons and little mage sparkles for attacks), I'll admit that, but I need to see some concrete evidence that "many" people would skip The Deep Roads.  

Also, the Deep Roads shouldn't even be a valid point. If people have a problem with fighting Darkspawn in the Deep Roads (which actually does not take that long to get past. I clear it in 30-38 minutes, all side quests included) then I don't know what they were expecting to find instead of droves of Darkspawn. Dire bunnies?

The only place I felt worthy of skipping in DA:O was The Fade.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[moilami]

Galad22 wrote...

Shinimas wrote...

You want me to seriously argue against RPG games becoming full time machinimas?

At first I thought the thread was trolling, but damn, that's really sad. Even though BW's been moving towards becoming a cartoon-making company, with their "less gameplay - more cinematics" approach, but for people to actually want it to be this way? Oh boy.

Half of the arguments from people who are against this have had that same argument.

Go watch a movie. Not very helpful.

In case you don't have time to read through this thread.

I put few of the arguments of those who support this here.

1. DA2 combat really sucks, it is tedious and annoying.
2. It would not make your gaming experience any worse, if this was implemented. So why not.
3. Most people who support this, agree that they would more likely want different ways to avoid combat that are build directly to the game. Diplomacy, stealth, subterfuge etc.
4. Since 3 is not likely to happen, since it would take some effort and work on Biowares part, skip combat putton simply is more easier to implement.
5. Gameplay does not equal combat. So saying that go watch a movie is somehow similar than this game would be if this was implemented is just factually wrong.

Very good understanding you have. Excellent understanding actually.

I just want to add to 4 that it wont also happen because of those who like current braindead combat. So the option to skip all trash mobs and do only bosses would be welcomed.

+ what an individual likes is subjective and therefore individual should be able to chose how to play the game. In BGs and NWN this was possible. Novadays I don't see it being possible maybe ever in BW games anymore - the design philosophy has changed so much - so the there simply must be skip the combat button.

[Goldfinger168]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Show me the proof that people disliked Origins' combat. I didn't like the combat myself (meaning the swinging of weapons and little mage sparkles for attacks), I'll admit that, but I need to see some concrete evidence that "many" people would skip The Deep Roads. 

I'm judging from the feedback the game received after release. .
You might find some interesting results on Google.

Also, the Deep Roads shouldn't even be a valid point. If people have a problem with fighting Darkspawn in the Deep Roads (which actually does not take that long to get past. I clear it in 30-38 minutes, all side quests included) then I don't know what they were expecting to find instead of droves of Darkspawn. Dire bunnies?

If playing at a decent difficulty level that requires active micro-management there's just no way it lasts only 30 minutes. No way. Are you sure we're talking about Origins there ?

The only place I felt worthy of skipping in DA:O was The Fade.

I agree that the Fade section was not what it could have been.

Modifié par Goldfinger168, 23 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[TEWR]

Goldfinger168 wrote...


I'm judging from the feedback the game received after release. .
You might find some interesting results on Google.

THAT. LINK. IS. AWESOME. However, the Deep Roads shouldn't be counted as a place full of waves of enemies if it's been described in the lore as a breeding ground for Darkspawn, so people should've expected a long pathway filled with darkspawn. It shouldn't be called filler combat, and neither should the Korcari Wilds like the OP of that first result said.

1: The Korcari Wilds barely had any fighting
2: You face so many darkspawn because you're on the brink of the horde.

If playing at a decent difficulty level that requires active micro-management there's just no way it lasts only 30 minutes. No way. Are you sure we're talking about Origins there ?

I played on Nightmare, though admittedly on the PS3. If that makes me a n00b or a "dumbed down" console user (not saying you're calling me that. Just if people do start calling me that) then that's good to know how other people view me. Maybe the PC version on Nightmare is tougher. I wouldn't know. I've only played a portion of DA:O on the PC.

edit:  forgot to say nightmare did take me way longer than 30-38 minutes. but it's nightmare! Same amount of enemies, reduced damage given on your part. It's meant to make the game harder. On normal it only took me about an hour with necessary breaks. sometimes I tend to forget my ps3 is on and the game keeps running with my Warden standing in place.

I agree that the Fade section was not what it could have been.

YAY!! We agree!! This can rightly be called filler combat in DA:O. Even just plain filler.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[Goldfinger168]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
However, the Deep Roads shouldn't be counted as a place full of waves of enemies if it's been described in the lore as a breeding ground for Darkspawn, so people should've expected a long pathway filled with darkspawn. It shouldn't be called filler combat, and neither should the Korcari Wilds like the OP of that first result said.

1: The Korcari Wilds barely had any fighting
2: You face so many darkspawn because you're on the brink of the horde.

I agree the encounters make sense in the context (which is always the case in DA:O if I recall correctly). However there's not enough difference between them to really make them all interesting. A lot of encounters can be resolved with the same general strategy, which makes them feel like "filler". That's just opinion of course.

The Deep Roads was interesting lore-wise, which gave motivation to actually finish it.

The Korcari Wilds I find mostly problematic for replayability. You still have a low level character and can't choose your party which makes it very repetitive over multiple playthroughs. Same for the Tower of Ishal.

I played on Nightmare, though admittedly on the PS3. If that makes me a n00b or a "dumbed down" console user (not saying you're calling me that. Just if people do start calling me that) then that's good to know how other people view me. Maybe the PC version on Nightmare is tougher. I wouldn't know. I've only played a portion of DA:O on the PC.

edit:  forgot to say nightmare did take me way longer than 30-38 minutes.

The PC vs. Console debate is not the real issue as far as combat is concerned, I think. I've found a lot of sexy tactical combat on consoles, maybe more than on PC in fact. People just like having an enemy.

I tend to pause a lot, which is probably why I get frustrated more easily with same-ish encounters. I'm nowhere near as fast as you.

YAY!! We agree!! This can rightly be called filler combat in DA:O. Even just plain filler.

*high five*

Modifié par Goldfinger168, 23 mars 2011 - 11:39 .

[Zigabogado]

I like this idea. I found myself trying to get through battles as quick as I could for the story.