203 réponses à ce sujet

[Myusha]

 I just simply love Anders, his humor, his resolve, his goal, the way he does it...just bloody awesome. Even with Justice!

And mainly because, he's the only reason we survived the High Dragon.

[highcastle]

Did you finish the game yet? Because, yes I adore Anders' character too, but I don't know if I can bring myself to be so giddy about him given the endgame.

[Izaelles]

May contain SPOiLER if you haven't finish the game...

I would just say that almost every party member have killed innocents...(think about it..) but it seams that we forgive them because it is part of the past...

On my first playthrough I was very upset with Anders at the end, but thinking about it and about wath all the others have done wrong before, I was like Hey!!!! This guy is strong! He is so angry about the templars/mages condition for years but keeps it cool anyway... and then he wants to HELP that spirit of justice that becomes corrupted thereafter and he is able to resist it for so many years....Furthermore he has HELPED so many people in Kirkwall without asking for anything in return...
I think in the end he is not worst then anybody else in our party...


(sorry for the poor English..hope it is clear enough)

Modifié par Izaelles, 12 août 2011 - 08:24 .

[esper]

Izaelles wrote...

May contain SPOiLER if you haven't finish the game...

I would just say that almost every party member have killed innocents...(think about it..) but it seams that we forgive them because it is part of the past...

On my first playthrough I was very upset with Anders at the end, but thinking about it and about wath all the others have done wrong before, I was like Hey!!!! This guy is strong! He is so angry about the templars/mages condition for years but keeps it cool anyway... and then he wants to HELP that spirit of justice that becomes corrupted thereafter and he is able to resist it for so many years....Furthermore he has HELPED so many people in Kirkwall without asking for anything in return...
I think in the end he is not worst then anybody else in our party...


(sorry for the poor English..hope it is clear enough)

^This. I love the DA2 companions because they are all flawed.

[Knight of Dane]

Anders is a great character with some super development, but, he's a terrorist.

[Carmen_Willow]

I love Anders when I get the chance to send him into the Void.

[TanyaT]

just had my female mage Hawke (no romance, and it hurts!) interrogate Anders as to what he's up to.
The complexity of that conversation's excellent, and showed just how scared Anders is of what justice/Vengeance will do
and coo he needs someone close, he needs hugging

[TanyaT]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Anders is a great character with some super development, but, he's a terrorist.

one man's freedom fighteris another man's terrorist
eg Menachem Begin

[Knight of Dane]

But in Anders case he is no one's freedom fighter.

he destroys a chantry, pisses off the templars and dooms his own kind.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 21 août 2011 - 03:10 .

[SurelyForth]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But in Anders case he is no one's freedom fighter.

he destroys a chantry, pisses off the templars and dooms his own kind.

We don't know this yet. What we do know is that they seem to be holding their own...if what Varric says about the Chantry being on the verge of collapse is true. 

[TanyaT]

when you remember the Chantry Alistair talked about, he hated it, it's an unpleasant dominating force which will have built up a lot of suppressed (the most dangerous) anger.
Freedom for mages!!!!!!!! Freedom from dogmatic religion!

[Gervaise]

Have been playing through with the Exiled Prince download in place - which I think should have been part of basic game because it makes a lot of what happens post Act 3 more intelligible.   It also puts into context his line about "I removed the possibility of compromise because there is no compromise" (in his eyes).  In between the conversation with Elthina about Sister Nightingale's warning and talking with her as a result of Ander's request, I just happened to go back to see Elthina (to see if she had anything to say about the chaste marriage thing) and got the option to ask her if there is nothing more she can do to bring about peace.  In response she actually agrees to see if a compromise can be reached.  Okay so she is talking more about persuading Orsino to back down rather than Meredith but nevertheless she definitely says she is going to try and do something (in response to all those people who say she does nothing).  And I actually have Anders with me when I do this.   Then when we have the confrontation in the gallows, Orsino states he is going to see the Grand Cleric and I can see that this is because she has already spoken to him about the compromise and basically Meredith is going back on it - so he has a legitimate grievance.  Then boom. 

So what I am trying to say is that it is not just some abstract action against the symbol of the Chantry but that Anders knows that Elthina is trying to keep the peace and broker a compromise to ensure that Kirkwall does not become the focus of a Exalted March or the Freemarches do not become another  Imperium (neither of which scenarios would be justice) and he quite deliberately blows her up.    So I'm sorry but I hate Anders.

[Xilizhra]

So what I am trying to say is that it is not just some abstract action against the symbol of the Chantry but that Anders knows that Elthina is trying to keep the peace and broker a compromise to ensure that Kirkwall does not become the focus of a Exalted March or the Freemarches do not become another Imperium (neither of which scenarios would be justice) and he quite deliberately blows her up. So I'm sorry but I hate Anders.

Every second of "compromise" under Elthina the Criminally Negligent made matters worse for mages.

[berelinde]

The problem with Elthina's "compromise" is that it is hardly that. It's akin to Meredith demanding the amputation of both arms of all mages. Elthina's idea of compromise takes one arm instead. That's no compromise, it's unnecessary mutilation.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Myusha wrote...

 I just simply love Anders, his humor, his resolve, his goal, the way he does it...just bloody awesome. Even with Justice!

And mainly because, he's the only reason we survived the High Dragon.

Trust me, Anders' endgame surprise made me love him even more, as idiotic and foolish as it was. :wub:

[sonoko]

I love Anders too! And Justice! For everything they've done for all mages of Chantry-controlled part of Thedas.
And most of all I love the "endgame surprise", because that was exactly my DAO Warden's dream coming true!

[TanyaT]

Gervaise wrote...

Have been playing through with the Exiled Prince download in place - which I think should have been part of basic game because it makes a lot of what happens post Act 3 more intelligible.

I agree, and I am miffed that it was an add on that I had to pay extra for. Loads of things changed once that's on, the chat, the story, the relationships etc

Xilizhra wrote...

So what I
am trying to say is that it is not just some abstract action against the
symbol of the Chantry but that Anders knows that Elthina is trying to
keep the peace and broker a compromise to ensure that Kirkwall does not
become the focus of a Exalted March or the Freemarches do not become
another Imperium (neither of which scenarios would be justice) and he
quite deliberately blows her up. So I'm sorry but I hate Anders.

Every second of "compromise" under Elthina the Criminally Negligent made matters worse for mages.

yep
more abuse in the chantry (it's like priests getting off and moved somewhere else)

berelinde wrote...

The
problem with Elthina's "compromise" is that it is hardly that. It's
akin to Meredith demanding the amputation of both arms of all mages.
Elthina's idea of compromise takes one arm instead. That's no
compromise, it's unnecessary mutilation.

Meredith is obviously evil, before the artifact, she should have been shackled but instead she was allowed to get away with it and that encouraged her.


I love Anders, partly because for the grace of whatever I could have ended up like that ... amazing what a good man can do for you and he's so vulnerable.

[TanyaT]

sonoko wrote...

I love Anders too! And Justice! For everything they've done for all mages of Chantry-controlled part of Thedas.
And most of all I love the "endgame surprise", because that was exactly my DAO Warden's dream coming true!

I never got that, does that only coem with the DLC installed?

[Melca36]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But in Anders case he is no one's freedom fighter.

he destroys a chantry, pisses off the templars and dooms his own kind.

Try not to think in only black and white. 

Actually his actions will eventually help reveal all things the Chantry has been hiding.

[Knight of Dane]

That they supress mages? That was never a secret.

By destroying the chantry, which means alot to many more people than just templars, he insured the templars would come down as hard as they could on the mages.

He destroyed a institution that to the common man in Thedas (except for perhaps tevinter) was the only safe harbor from "evil"

I'm not the one who's bloody black and white.

[Neminea]

We won't know what long term effects there will be untill the next game I suspect. By blowing up the chantry he might have gotten some allies in the Dalish too, they did the whole exalted march thing on them.

[Knight of Dane]

That's not what's relevant, when we talk about the unknown no one can be certain, it might as well be doom as heaven.

What i am talking about is the annulment of the circle, the loss of safe harbor for orphan kids, the instutution of general faith in Ferelden. Alsot of people rely on the chantry other than the templars and mages, what Anders did was utterly selfish because he wanted to matter.

[LadyofRivendell]

I was pretty angry on my first playthrough, but playing a second time, I could see why Anders thought to do what he did. That doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but I'd like to see where it goes in the long run.

If nothing else, it's sure setting up some great tension for DA3.

[FieryDove]

Knight of Dane wrote...

By destroying the chantry, which means alot to many more people than just templars, he insured the templars would come down as hard as they could on the mages.

We don't know that. We can only go by what we are shown. Which was Elthina and a bunch of templars.

He destroyed a institution that to the common man in Thedas (except for perhaps tevinter) was the only safe harbor from "evil"

Tell that to Saemus, oh wait you can't.

Modifié par FieryDove, 21 août 2011 - 06:28 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Knight of Dane wrote...

That's not what's relevant, when we talk about the unknown no one can be certain, it might as well be doom as heaven.

What i am talking about is the annulment of the circle, the loss of safe harbor for orphan kids, the instutution of general faith in Ferelden. Alsot of people rely on the chantry other than the templars and mages, what Anders did was utterly selfish because he wanted to matter.

Blaming Anders for Meredith annulling the circle is literally the craziest thing. It's like blaming J.D. Salinger for the death of John Lennon.

You're also basically saying that if there's a dictator around, nobody should ever try to rebel or oppose them in any way, because if your rebellion causes the dictator to murder thousands of people then it's your fault. Apparently you think that we should all just sit down and follow orders when there's an angry dictator in charge, because if anything is done that sets the poor, delicate dictator off, it's not his fault if he massacres people he considers enemies of the state, is it?

Hey! According to the "Anders doomed the circle" theory, Stalin was an ok guy; stupid Sergey Kirov just shouldn't have gone and doomed all the Russian people by pissing him off.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 21 août 2011 - 06:33 .