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I hope there are no new squad mates in me3


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#251
Raphael diSanto

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Elite Midget wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...
No, because what you posted are lots of reasons that BioWare could use if they chose not to bring Squadmates back.

I agree that there's lots of story-based reasons for squadmates to not return. That still doesn't mean BioWare will use any of them. There's also reasons for squadmates to return.

At the end of the day, it's up to the writers. and you posting your speculation as fact doesn't change the actual -fact- which is that we don't know what they're planning.


Oh, I see what camp you're part of. You're part of the Camp that supporters only ONE choice and all unfortounate choices must be retconned out. Well than, there's no convinceing you with facts since you're the type to ignore facts other than the one fact that you desire,

If that's the case you're wasteing both our time.

... What, where did I say I supported only one choice.

I haven't actually stated -any- opinions on whether I personally think the squad mates will or won't be brought back. I also haven't stated any opinions on whether or not I -want- them to be brought back.

I'm simply pointing out that your "facts" are not facts. They are valid reasons why squadmates would not be brought back, and that equally valid reasons exist why non-dead ones would.

Please note, that I said that the reasons you list in that other thread are 100% valid. I agree with those reasons. But unlike you, I can also see valid story-based reasons to bring them back instead, should the writers wish to do so.

#252
FobManX

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Part of the fun of RPGs is recruiting new people to join you. I definitely hope there are at least a couple brand new squad mates in ME3, even characters that were not playable before(like the Salarian Captain Kirare from ME1, or the Quarian that Adam Baldwin voice acted whos name escapes me atm).

#253
Elite Midget

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You don't need to state anything when your words are quite plain. All I've seen you endorse is punishment, perfect ending, retcon, and pretending some variables never existed. Thus logic dictates that you desire only one choice and that's 'your' choice while punishing everyone else that doesn't go with 'your' choice.

And yes, my facts are indeed facts. You're blind if you can't see that the variables in the game were put in by Bioware and not I.

#254
Raphael diSanto

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Elite Midget wrote...

You don't need to state anything when your words are quite plain. All I've seen you endorse is punishment, perfect ending, retcon, and pretending some variables never existed. Thus logic dictates that you desire only one choice and that's 'your' choice while punishing everyone else that doesn't go with 'your' choice.

And yes, my facts are indeed facts. You're blind if you can't see that the variables in the game were put in by Bioware and not I.


... Punishment, perfect ending .. what? 

Okay, I'm completely lost. When did I talk about perfect endings and pretending variables don't exist?

#255
Nightwriter

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FobManX wrote...

Part of the fun of RPGs is recruiting new people to join you. I definitely hope there are at least a couple brand new squad mates in ME3, even characters that were not playable before(like the Salarian Captain Kirare from ME1, or the Quarian that Adam Baldwin voice acted whos name escapes me atm).

I agree, part of the fun of RPGs is recruiting new people.

But ME3 finds itself in a unique situation. It is not only the final act of a trilogy whose task it is to provide closure for all the old characters, it proceeds a sequel which will be invalidated if there are no returning squadmates. See the popular sentiment "If the ME2 squadmates don't return, what was ME2 for?"

I can accept not having all the old characters in my party; the active squad has always been reserved for the next big stars. But I would hope that our old companions return in the story in some form.

#256
Almostfaceman

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Elite Midget wrote...

I do respect it but I also disrespect those that would deny others content or would retcon the dead just so they could have the game THEY want to play and not the game BIOWARE wants to make.


It has been pointed out to you sooo many times that Bioware is making a game where a players choices impact the story.  If you don't want that kind of game - there are real life choices you can make - like play a different game.

Simply put Bioware doesn't have infinite reseources, time, money, and manpower. As a person who's made many things in the past I know what I'm talking about in this scenerio. Yes that stuff would be nice but you must be realistic.


The Bioware story is not an infinite story with infinite choices.  They've planned from the start a set number of choices and moved them forward.  It has been pointed out to you by others that Bioware has not painted themselves into a corner where they have a story with too many choices at the end for them to manage.  They can handle it with the resources they have.

Put yourself in Bioware's Shoes. You have finite resources, time, money, and manpower. Than you have someone like EA breathing down yourt neck because EA must continue to be profitable and has Stock owners and the such to appease. Let me tell you, those types of people are hard to please and almost always extremely greedy. Simply put they hate taking risks and neither does EA.


This is your opinion on the state of EA and Bioware's relationship.  You're entitled to your opinion.  But none of this exlpains in real dollars and cents how EA has destroyed Bioware's plans to make ME3 tailored to our choices from ME2 and ME1.

My awnser is the fairest and most logical awnser of all. They all have many variables that deny theie return and none should ever receive any special treatment over the others. That and I highly distaste punishing casuals and newcomers just to appease a small hardcore crowd that 'might' care.


Again, this is opinion.  You're entitled to it.  But Bioware can easily say - look, we've been telling you guys for 4 years now that this is 3 parts and that your choices affect the story - don't cry when you don't like the results of your choices.  They made this point super clear in ME2.  You make the wrong choices - squadmates - even Shepard - can die.  And people love it.

I was kind to my Squaddies under the hope that by Mass Effect 3 they would have grown past just being mere Squaddies and actually do something important and beneficial to my cause. They're some of the most trusted persons my Paragorn Shepard knows and currently the Universe is ignoreing the threat at hand. Thus the best use of the Squaddies would be for them to gather aid for Shepard or simply bettering themselves dureing the Time Skip. Such as Garrus forming his own team that Shepard can rely upon since Shepard can't be everywhere at once when the Reapers attack.


What YOU consider the best use for your squaddie's in ME3 is your opinion.  A lot of people, including me, don't share that opinion - for all the reasons we've stated before.

They will own it by missing cameo's or plot events such sa being able to send Garrus and his own Squad to deal with another Reaper attack while Shepard is busy elsewhere. If Garrus is dead than the team that goes instead would fail and many more innocents would die due that fact. That's more than enough punishment there which is to deny access to the Best Mass Effect 3 ending, without imports, and more deaths on and off screen due to highly trained allies no longer being alive to aid against the massive Reaper Invasion.


What you consider more than enough punishment, is, again, your opinion.  That's cool.  But you've been going on and on about variable and facts and throwing attitude at folks with a different opinion.  You are entitled to your opinion.  But so are we.  Chill.

#257
Raphael diSanto

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Elite Midget wrote...

You don't need to state anything when your words are quite plain. All I've seen you endorse is punishment, perfect ending, retcon, and pretending some variables never existed. Thus logic dictates that you desire only one choice and that's 'your' choice while punishing everyone else that doesn't go with 'your' choice.

And yes, my facts are indeed facts. You're blind if you can't see that the variables in the game were put in by Bioware and not I.


For the record, I'm a big fan of choice. Apparently, you're the one who doesn't want choice, and is forcing the "No squad mates will be back in ME3" route on us all. You're the one who doesn't want us to have any ME3 except the one you forsee.

I'm perfectly happy with an ME3 that doesn't include squadmates, if they've got valid reasons for them not to be there (i.e. if they're dead).. But I'm also perfectly happy with an ME3 where some (or all) squad mates would return, if there were valid reasons for them to do that, instead.

See? Choice. It's what BioWare games are all about!

#258
Elite Midget

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Apparantly you aren't a Big Enough fan since you support retcons, pretending many of the variables don't exist, and changeing things where only your Perfect Save is the one to go where all other saves must be punished severely for not being Perfect like yours.

#259
Almostfaceman

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Elite Midget wrote...

Apparantly you aren't a Big Enough fan since you support retcons, pretending many of the variables don't exist, and changeing things where only your Perfect Save is the one to go where all other saves must be punished severely for not being Perfect like yours.


There is no Perfect Save, dude.  Part of the fun people are having is seeing squaddies die and Shepard dying.  It's like 20 stories packed into one.  I'm sure there's even a Paragon Perfect Save and a Renegade Perfect Save - where one is the Reapers are defeated and all species are set to co-exist peacefully and the other is the Reapers are defeated and all the species tremble at the feet of Human Power.  Then there's everything else other than that - I bet there's even an ending where the Reapers Win.  People have fun with that stuff.  It sorta looks like you don't.

#260
Elite Midget

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Yes there is a Perfect save. It's getting everyone loyal, alive, and doing every mission. That's a perfect save. Where you're Renegade or Paragon adds spice but doesn't matter for the Perfect ME2 Save. Even than there are Variables that would force every single ME2 Squaddie out of your party dureing the Time skip despite having said Perfect Save.

#261
Schattenkeil

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I would prefer a mix of old and new characters - in my case three characters are dead. Garrus was tech specialist and Mordin and Jack died holding the line. I'd like a few new characters around since it brings some change into the story, but I'd also like my crew in general remaining the same

I wouldn't like yet another game where the biggest part of the story is recruiting and satisfying your crew.

What really like about video games is choice, it would be nice if there were some ready to fill the gaps, but you don't really need all of them, so that you can choose one character from several for every vital position on your ship. Or you take up several if you really like to but make it clear that you don't really have to.

However development time is limited of course and there is only so much overhead acceptable at the altar of customizability.

#262
Almostfaceman

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Elite Midget wrote...

Yes there is a Perfect save. It's getting everyone loyal, alive, and doing every mission. That's a perfect save. Where you're Renegade or Paragon adds spice but doesn't matter for the Perfect ME2 Save. Even than there are Variables that would force every single ME2 Squaddie out of your party dureing the Time skip despite having said Perfect Save.


Well the people who don't want all their squaddie's to live wouldn't consider it a Perfect Save now would they.  That's the point, that term is subjective. :D

#263
Raphael diSanto

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Elite Midget wrote...

Yes there is a Perfect save. It's getting everyone loyal, alive, and doing every mission. That's a perfect save. Where you're Renegade or Paragon adds spice but doesn't matter for the Perfect ME2 Save. Even than there are Variables that would force every single ME2 Squaddie out of your party dureing the Time skip despite having said Perfect Save.

Oh. Well, I'm not advocating that everyone be forced to play ME3 as if they'd gotten that "Perfect save" .. As I said in my other thread, I have half a dozen shepards, and they all have varying degrees of loyal/disloyal live/alive crew members.

All I'm saying is that while the perfect save should not be enforced upon us, neither should the opposite, which seems to be what you're advocating.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Well the people who don't want all their squaddie's to live wouldn't consider it a Perfect Save now would they.  That's the point, that term is subjective. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]


^ this, absolutely. The saves I have where not everyone's loyal, or not everyone lives. They are 100% intentional. I determine what happens during the suicide mission (within the parameters given to me ny BioWare). I don't leave it to chance. I determine who dies and lives based on the personality of the Shepard that I'm RPing at that time.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 26 mars 2011 - 08:25 .


#264
Raphael diSanto

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doublepost

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 26 mars 2011 - 08:25 .


#265
Gentleman Moogle

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Raphael diSanto wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Yes there is a Perfect save. It's getting everyone loyal, alive, and doing every mission. That's a perfect save. Where you're Renegade or Paragon adds spice but doesn't matter for the Perfect ME2 Save. Even than there are Variables that would force every single ME2 Squaddie out of your party dureing the Time skip despite having said Perfect Save.

Oh. Well, I'm not advocating that everyone be forced to play ME3 as if they'd gotten that "Perfect save" .. As I said in my other thread, I have half a dozen shepards, and they all have varying degrees of loyal/disloyal live/alive crew members.

All I'm saying is that while the perfect save should not be enforced upon us, neither should the opposite, which seems to be what you're advocating.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Well the people who don't want all their squaddie's to live wouldn't consider it a Perfect Save now would they.  That's the point, that term is subjective. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]


^ this, absolutely. The saves I have where not everyone's loyal, or not everyone lives. They are 100% intentional. I determine what happens during the suicide mission (within the parameters given to me ny BioWare). I don't leave it to chance. I determine who dies and lives based on the personality of the Shepard that I'm RPing at that time.


But the variables, man! Don't you see! They're all... Variable! And Stuff! You are completely wrong because you have no Variables! 

No no, it's true! I have seen the light! The Variables are All! All hail the Variables! They Control the X and the Y

And sometimes the Z, but only if you're an Orthodox Variablist. Reformed Variablists deny the existence of the Z. This schism was what lead to the great Linear wars of 1877.

#266
Raphael diSanto

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Moogle..... You're crazy, man. Crazy!

#267
Almostfaceman

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Gentleman Moogle wrote...

But the variables, man! Don't you see! They're all... Variable! And Stuff! You are completely wrong because you have no Variables! 

No no, it's true! I have seen the light! The Variables are All! All hail the Variables! They Control the X and the Y

And sometimes the Z, but only if you're an Orthodox Variablist. Reformed Variablists deny the existence of the Z. This schism was what lead to the great Linear wars of 1877.


So you're a ... Protestant Variablist are ya, huh?  You are not a True Variablist!  Burn!!!

#268
Gentleman Moogle

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Almostfaceman wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

But the variables, man! Don't you see! They're all... Variable! And Stuff! You are completely wrong because you have no Variables! 

No no, it's true! I have seen the light! The Variables are All! All hail the Variables! They Control the X and the Y

And sometimes the Z, but only if you're an Orthodox Variablist. Reformed Variablists deny the existence of the Z. This schism was what lead to the great Linear wars of 1877.


So you're a ... Protestant Variablist are ya, huh?  You are not a True Variablist!  Burn!!!


Our voice will not be silenced! The Changing of the Variables must be considered by the Holy Order! Only the Constants never change! The Variables are ever in motion! We shall not stand divided forever!  We shall multiply until our numbers are the greatest addition in this world, and you will be subtracted from the equation!

Ich Bin Ein Variablmeister! 

#269
Almostfaceman

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Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

But the variables, man! Don't you see! They're all... Variable! And Stuff! You are completely wrong because you have no Variables! 

No no, it's true! I have seen the light! The Variables are All! All hail the Variables! They Control the X and the Y

And sometimes the Z, but only if you're an Orthodox Variablist. Reformed Variablists deny the existence of the Z. This schism was what lead to the great Linear wars of 1877.


So you're a ... Protestant Variablist are ya, huh?  You are not a True Variablist!  Burn!!!


Our voice will not be silenced! The Changing of the Variables must be considered by the Holy Order! Only the Constants never change! The Variables are ever in motion! We shall not stand divided forever!  We shall multiply until our numbers are the greatest addition in this world, and you will be subtracted from the equation!

Ich Bin Ein Variablmeister! 


*shudders and makes the sign of the Infinite Variable*

in nomine patris mutabilis et filii mutabilis et spiritus sancti mutabilis

#270
Ice Cold J

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xnoxiousx wrote...

I rather just have best of me1 and me2 characters return.


I agree.

Although, that soldier in London seemed like a cool bloke.

#271
Dave666

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Almostfaceman wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

But the variables, man! Don't you see! They're all... Variable! And Stuff! You are completely wrong because you have no Variables! 

No no, it's true! I have seen the light! The Variables are All! All hail the Variables! They Control the X and the Y

And sometimes the Z, but only if you're an Orthodox Variablist. Reformed Variablists deny the existence of the Z. This schism was what lead to the great Linear wars of 1877.


So you're a ... Protestant Variablist are ya, huh?  You are not a True Variablist!  Burn!!!


Our voice will not be silenced! The Changing of the Variables must be considered by the Holy Order! Only the Constants never change! The Variables are ever in motion! We shall not stand divided forever!  We shall multiply until our numbers are the greatest addition in this world, and you will be subtracted from the equation!

Ich Bin Ein Variablmeister! 


*shudders and makes the sign of the Infinite Variable*

in nomine patris mutabilis et filii mutabilis et spiritus sancti mutabilis


Play nicely guys.  Is he even in this thread?


*Edit* Nevermind, I just spotted it.  Still, play nicely.

Modifié par Dave666, 27 mars 2011 - 02:14 .


#272
CulturalGeekGirl

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Here's the funny thing about me... I can't play a Shep who doesn't save everyone. I contemplated doing one of those crazy things from the Suicide mission thread, where I kill off only the characters I don't care about and... no. Not going to do it! If I can save them, I will. Even when I'm a jerk, I'm a badass jerk who can do whatever the hell she wants. Suicide mission... yeah, messing with me was suicide for the collectors!

#273
oldag07

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There has got to be a batarian squadmate.

#274
CulturalGeekGirl

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I'm also not too hopeful about Mordin returning. He's old, and he's one of the people most likely to die during the Hold the Line bit of the Suicide mission, which is the part of the mission that has the least obvious solution, so I'd assume a lot of players lost him. That said, I now love Salarians as much as I love Krogan, so I hope we get a new one if we can't have the doc.

#275
Firewolf99

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I presume i'm the only one who wants a Vorcha squadmate?

But it's likely that you're gonna ned to recruit most of your new squad- or recover all your old squad- as that's what makes RPG's so fun. Meeting new/ developed characters... killing them with big guns (thx Wrex)