69 réponses à ce sujet

[ZaroktheImmortal]

One of the things I noticed in Dragon Age 2 is no matter your choice things always seem to pretty much turn out the same. At first it seems like you're making choices that will matter, but the more you play it the more it becomes clear that those choices don't mean anything because practically everything will turn out exactly the same regardless. I get that they're trying to tell a specific story, but it'd have been nice to actually feel like I'm doing something, that my choices are actually important.

[Inujade]

I actually have a feeling this was sort of the point. I mean, aside from the Warden, who actually has complete power over the fate of a whole country? Or a whole religious institution?

I think the way it was set up had a lot to do with the whole "struggle against destiny/embrace destiny" thing. Considering Bioware is a game that strives above all else to deliver story-based games, I wouldn't be surprised if they suppressed the choice mechanic to get that certain point across.

But perhaps a bit more freedom would have been nice, yes

[Esbatty]

Inujade wrote...

I actually have a feeling this was sort of the point. I mean, aside from the Warden, who actually has complete power over the fate of a whole country? Or a whole religious institution?

I think the way it was set up had a lot to do with the whole "struggle against destiny/embrace destiny" thing. Considering Bioware is a game that strives above all else to deliver story-based games, I wouldn't be surprised if they suppressed the choice mechanic to get that certain point across.

But perhaps a bit more freedom would have been nice, yes

You hit the nail on the head, right there.

[Arppis]

Sometimes no matter how much you try, you can't prevent horrible things from happening. But yeah, I wish there was some variation on the outcome in the end.

[Gentleman Moogle]

To quote the immortal Yahtzee Croshaw:

"Purposefully annoying is still annoying."

I don't play games for their message, I play games to escape to a world where I can matter in a big way. Where my choices DO affect things around me, and more than just 'there's a flower on that wall now instead of a drawing of a devil' kind of way.

Man, I'm bitter tonight.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

To quote the immortal Yahtzee Croshaw:

"Purposefully annoying is still annoying."

I don't play games for their message, I play games to escape to a world where I can matter in a big way. Where my choices DO affect things around me, and more than just 'there's a flower on that wall now instead of a drawing of a devil' kind of way.

Man, I'm bitter tonight.

Yeah, I'd rather have had at least a bit more variation on the outcome from my choices. I felt more like a side-character to the story in itself rather than the actual hero. But it seems they wanted to tell the story in a certain way rather than having variations on how it could turn out. But how they talked about it seeing the full outcome of your choices I thought there would be more variety depending on my choices. But instead it's pretty much the same no matter what I do.

[Silveryne]

Inujade and Esbatty are spot on, I think. :3 But here's my thoughts anyway.

Some choices did matter, but more in the gameplay than how the final scene played out. It's not always about where you end up (because you'll end up there any case -- Warden kills Archdemon. Hooray!) but how you get there (Warden makes friends with the mages and brings them to help kill the Archdemon! Hooray!). It's funny because you can actually make allies that help you in the final bossfight in DA2, just how you'd make allies in DA1. Which was pretty much all that changed, beyond a slideshow telling you how people turned out over the years. Now, you just get to see how people turned out over the years in the game itself.

...You have no idea how confused I was about what Zevran was doing there helping me butcher the last boss my first playthrough. Revelation: hey, if I don't kill them, my friends come out to help! If I spend the time helping my companion with her quest, her boyfriend helps me! Hey, if I sided with the mages in the first scene in act 3 and do that associated quest, the nobles might come help me!

TLDR: Like the Archdemon, she goes down no matter what...Like the Archdemon, who can come to help you in the end depends on how you got there. And you can end up in "exile" in the end, being begged to rule, or as viscount (or my game glitched and I was actually Viscount. Whatever. Varric never said it happened, though, so I'm guessing it didn't.).

The lack of an end scene telling you how X, Y, and Z were altered by your actions doesn't mean there is no choice, and doesn't mean that those choices you've made won't impact future games set in the Dragon Age universe.

[cast_]

I felt powerless in DA 2, they should just remove the wheel if it does nothing but aggravate me. Also what happened to being evil in Bioware games, I feel like you just are a douche now, not evil, you do all the good things but just act like a dickweed. I wanna feel like Sith Lord Revan again

[Tsarapihelas]

You misled yourself, OP. Listen closely to Flemeth's narration in the first trailer released for the game. The entire premise of the game is laid out for you.

[Zing Freelancer]

I've seen shooters with more varied choices and outcomes than DA2.

[Zannana]

I agree with the OP. You were denied choice really. It was all just an illusion. I could accept that about the main story but when I wanted to kill someone from a side quest and I couldn't because everything was already decided for me...then I became a bit resentful.

[Kerbert]

This is my biggest gripe with the game too. It seemed like you had no chance to do the things your character would do under the circumstances. Instead you were railroaded without any meaningful way to choose your own path.

Why would I let even a single Qunari leave Kirkwall alive? Why can't I try to rally the support of the nobles to nominate me to lead the city? Why would I kill tons of mages when I'm supposed to be on their side? Why can't I kill Cullen after he's come to witness me killing the blood mages? Why would I let Sebastian leave Kirkwall alive when he just threatened to dedicate his life to destroy me? Why can't I ambush Meredith when she is in the courtyard telling me that more templars will arrive shorly, when it seems like I've got the numerical advantage?

So frustrating!

[CitizenSnips]

Well you can choose to support the mages and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution or you can choose to support the templars and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution.

Oh wait...

[Rune-Chan]

As I have state before, my issue isn't (like other people) the fact that the ending still results in the world on the brink of war, because that kind of thing was inevitable.

My issue is that if you choose Mages you get Orsino become an abomination for no reason, then Meredith becomes slightly more crazy and you fight her too. If you choose Templars you get the exact same thing except this time you don't need to run away afterwards, but still do anyway for some bizarre reason.

I loved the game, but the  consequences of choices and general lack of them were worse than Mass Effect 2. When it came to these large decisions I expected my choice to actually matter, that's what made it so gard to choose sometime, now that I know I will get the same ending if I choose Templars, it gives little reason for replaying it.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 20 mars 2011 - 11:56 .

[cast_]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Well you can choose to support the mages and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution or you can choose to support the templars and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution.

Oh wait...

lol yes

[M4H AIDAH]

the story was a framed narrtive which means , you would not of changed the ending cause the worlds was going to be on the blink of war. bioware said that they wanted the player to see how he became champion. its a bit lame but you dont get to changed the ending how you want it but they did sort of warn us

[ZaroktheImmortal]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Well you can choose to support the mages and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution or you can choose to support the templars and end up fighting Orsino and Meredith with no story resolution.

Oh wait...

Haha, yes indeed.

[Inujade]

Here's the thing, though; everyone keeps saying they want to have choices that 'matter.' But what is the difference between a choice that matters and one that doesn't? It's very abstract.

My Hawke was a sarcastic mage with no qualms with breaking the law. She romanced Isabella and so fought to save her life against the Arishok. To me, it wasn't so much that I ended up fighting both Orsino and Meredith, it was that I chose to stand with the mages. It wasn't that I dueled the Arishok, it was why. It helped define Hawke, and this is Hawke's story. The choice itself 'mattered', not the outcome.

Take a different Hawke, with different motives, different romance, and you've got a different story.

And it's good to remember that every Warden had to go get the same three treaties and fight the same Archdemon. The Warden also didn't have the option to say, "Man, I really wanna kill that guy!" anytime she wanted, either.

[AlexXIV]

Inujade wrote...

Here's the thing, though; everyone keeps saying they want to have choices that 'matter.' But what is the difference between a choice that matters and one that doesn't? It's very abstract.

My Hawke was a sarcastic mage with no qualms with breaking the law. She romanced Isabella and so fought to save her life against the Arishok. To me, it wasn't so much that I ended up fighting both Orsino and Meredith, it was that I chose to stand with the mages. It wasn't that I dueled the Arishok, it was why. It helped define Hawke, and this is Hawke's story. The choice itself 'mattered', not the outcome.

Take a different Hawke, with different motives, different romance, and you've got a different story.

And it's good to remember that every Warden had to go get the same three treaties and fight the same Archdemon. The Warden also didn't have the option to say, "Man, I really wanna kill that guy!" anytime she wanted, either.

My main problem is that the last option is probably the only one that counts for the game, and import. No matter what you did before, in the last act you decide which side and you will get the mage supporter flag or templar supporter flag. Nobody asks for reasons or if you have always supported this side.

Same is with other quests and factions. For example I helped the elves where I could. I killed the son of that kirkwall noble, forgot the name/title. The father of the girl says at least one who lets elves have justice and kirkwall and you never hear of it again.

You could be pro circle and pro templar, but in the last battle decide that Meredith went too far and protect the mages. And you get labelled mage supporter. Even though you are not against the templars, just the against Meredith.

Many quests could have been used to define Hawke more than just pro or anti mages in the last fight. It could have been deeper and more detailed. But there is just yes or no. And that's not really much at the end of the game.

If I could at least have saved Hawke's family it would have been at least half a victory. I don't mind dark fantasy, but I don't really like the dark overdose of DA2. It is just as ridiculous as the fairy tale high fantasy, just in the other direction. Life is neither a deep vally without any light nor is it a meadow of beautiful flowers. It was just bad balance in the whole game.

For me DA:O was dark fantasy already. It didn't have to go into a windowless cellar and lock the door behind it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 mars 2011 - 02:53 .

[Gabey5]

Inujade wrote...

I actually have a feeling this was sort of the point. I mean, aside from the Warden, who actually has complete power over the fate of a whole country? Or a whole religious institution?

I think the way it was set up had a lot to do with the whole "struggle against destiny/embrace destiny" thing. Considering Bioware is a game that strives above all else to deliver story-based games, I wouldn't be surprised if they suppressed the choice mechanic to get that certain point across.

But perhaps a bit more freedom would have been nice, yes

[vigna]

It isn't so much choice though. In DA:O you basically have to trudge along and do quests...you can side with either dwarf Lord, but it really doesn't matter, you can save the anvil, but it really doesn't matter, you can kill the elves or werewolves..it really doesn't matter...all the choices get you to the archdemon. You win against the Archdemon, but you die, run off or become ruler. DA:O also ends with preset conditions and outcomes in a manner of speaking.
In DAII your choices don't matter at all, and the ending sucks. The DA:O ending was good. That is the difference. IN DA:O you get to slay an archdemon-- you feel like you accomplish something at the end.........in DAII there is nothing accomplished because the crud is gonna hit the fan no matter what.

[Tom Jolly]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

To quote the immortal Yahtzee Croshaw:

"Purposefully annoying is still annoying."

I don't play games for their message, I play games to escape to a world where I can matter in a big way. Where my choices DO affect things around me, and more than just 'there's a flower on that wall now instead of a drawing of a devil' kind of way.


Man, I'm bitter tonight.

I am right there with you, bro.

Modifié par Tom Jolly, 20 mars 2011 - 04:57 .

[ZaroktheImmortal]

vigna wrote...

It isn't so much choice though. In DA:O you basically have to trudge along and do quests...you can side with either dwarf Lord, but it really doesn't matter, you can save the anvil, but it really doesn't matter, you can kill the elves or werewolves..it really doesn't matter...all the choices get you to the archdemon. You win against the Archdemon, but you die, run off or become ruler. DA:O also ends with preset conditions and outcomes in a manner of speaking.
In DAII your choices don't matter at all, and the ending sucks. The DA:O ending was good. That is the difference. IN DA:O you get to slay an archdemon-- you feel like you accomplish something at the end.........in DAII there is nothing accomplished because the crud is gonna hit the fan no matter what.

And yet the choices you made actually did have different results. Where as in Dragon Age 2 it makes you think you have major choices but they everything turns out exactly the same no matter which choice you make. So it's more of the illusion of making choices, when really there's not much choice at all in anything that happens.

[Big I]

In Origins you got to determine the fate of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the Anvil of the Void, and the rulers of Orzammar and Fereldan. In DA2 you can't even determine the fate of your own family members.