47 réponses à ce sujet

[Mikealpha]

Hmmm, I'm just half through the game and still shocked. The mage casts spells like a comic figure. Enemies are frantically jumping around in fights ? Where is the slow down setting in the Options ?
My son was watching a fight and mentioned : "Oh, for a moment I thought you are playing Darksiders".

For me life is already fast paced enough. computer games I play have always been sort of a relax anchor. So it was with BG1, BG2, NWN, DA1. Are the times of traditional RPGs gone now ? Here and there just sit back and relax, think about tactics, about the characters ?

Where does the gaming industry develop to? Quick action, liters of blood thrill, do we really need that everywhere ? An Action/RPG/Shooter genre mix ?  Well, just some strategy genre missing here, but maybe in DA3 we get an automatic fight button ?

So, what's next with DA ? An in between DA2 and DA3 book ? Same number of pages as before, but double size letters, so I can read it double as fast ?

Oh well, I'm 51, seems I have become too old for this.

Mike 

[Esbatty]

You're only as old as you feel.

...

And man, fast food these days like McGriddles and Double Downs make me feel like a little shuffleboard ain't a bad idea.

Modifié par Esbatty, 20 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Adugan]

Theres a stooorm comin'. I can feel it in my booones...

[Pandaman102]

Hate to say it, but this really is the best course for a company to be successful. Just take solace in the fact that twenty, thirty years from now the generation that caused this genre shift will be feeling out pains when they get left behind by the next coolest thing.

[bill4747bill]

Mikealpha wrote...

Hmmm, I'm just half through the game and still shocked. The mage casts spells like a comic figure. Enemies are frantically jumping around in fights ? Where is the slow down setting in the Options ?
My son was watching a fight and mentioned : "Oh, for a moment I thought you are playing Darksiders".

For me life is already fast paced enough. computer games I play have always been sort of a relax anchor. So it was with BG1, BG2, NWN, DA1. Are the times of traditional RPGs gone now ? Here and there just sit back and relax, think about tactics, about the characters ?

Where does the gaming industry develop to? Quick action, liters of blood thrill, do we really need that everywhere ? An Action/RPG/Shooter genre mix ?  Well, just some strategy genre missing here, but maybe in DA3 we get an automatic fight button ?

So, what's next with DA ? An in between DA2 and DA3 book ? Same number of pages as before, but double size letters, so I can read it double as fast ?

Oh well, I'm 51, seems I have become too old for this.

Mike 

As an oldschool turnbased gamer at heart, i undestand the feeling.

I have managed to lern to enjoy many real time games though.

Adapt or perish!  

[L33TDAWG]

I agree with Mike here, I really loved DA:O and for some reason the "shuffling" because it atleast gave you time to think about actions without pausing every few seconds. I feel that with how fast DA2 is, you hardly have time to pause and make those last minute changes because before you know it; the enemy has killed your healer, support archer, and rogue. I understand making it accessible, but they dumbed down the interface and a lot of things that I liked in Origins just to appeal to a larger audience. It's as if they thought, "Well, those fps fans and hack-n-slash fans won't like all the options we give them because it will feel overwhelming, so let's dumb it down to meet their IQ level." Now, I am not saying BW actually did this, but when you dumb down an RPG from what you are uused to making to make it accessible to all audiences, then you can see how it'd come off as that way, but I try to view it as them getting people hooked and then reintroducing concepts into the game again.

[Chromie]

Don't criticize what you can't understand

[Mikealpha]

Well, yes, adapt or perish, difficult question .
If I want fast action, I could walk to my sons XBOX (he would be surprised ) and play God of War or Castlevania or whatever.
Let me give one example: Tactical placement of the team members or tactical usage of the environment was always one important element in Bioware RPG games. It is useless now, if enemies suddenly warp or materialize from one edge to the other.  I understand, all this character placement is inconvenient for gamepad users, but I still don't get it, why it has to be so fast.
I haven't seen any romance scenes yet, but I also scratch my head regarding the 18+ age rating. Even a 12 year old would consider the fights a comic, no matter how much virtual ketchup is visible.
However, I don't loose my hope Bioware might return to their roots in the future.
Mike

[Cuthlan]

I've been playing rpgs as long as anyone here (Legend of the Red Dragon on BBS was my first), and this is more my style. I never used the autopause function in the Baldur's Gate games, and always tried to avoid a pause-and-play style because I found it so slow and immersion-breaking. I felt less like the Bhaalspawn and more like the hand of God directing the events of the world. I wanted my companions to do what they were supposed to do as if they were real people, while I did what I was supposed to do as if I were the Bhaalspawn.

The constant of Bioware games is the story. Give me the same quality of story I got from those games with improved action, and I'm happy. Which is why I am a fan of DA2 and the evolution of Bioware's games.

[L33TDAWG]

I do enjoy the stories in their games, but this story seemed rather poorly executed on some levels. It's as if they were trying to do what they did with Jade Empire and go for action. (that's what I felt.)

[Naughty Bear]

Mikealpha wrote...

Hmmm, I'm just half through the game and still shocked. The mage casts spells like a comic figure. Enemies are frantically jumping around in fights ? Where is the slow down setting in the Options ?
My son was watching a fight and mentioned : "Oh, for a moment I thought you are playing Darksiders".

For me life is already fast paced enough. computer games I play have always been sort of a relax anchor. So it was with BG1, BG2, NWN, DA1. Are the times of traditional RPGs gone now ? Here and there just sit back and relax, think about tactics, about the characters ?

Where does the gaming industry develop to? Quick action, liters of blood thrill, do we really need that everywhere ? An Action/RPG/Shooter genre mix ?  Well, just some strategy genre missing here, but maybe in DA3 we get an automatic fight button ?

So, what's next with DA ? An in between DA2 and DA3 book ? Same number of pages as before, but double size letters, so I can read it double as fast ?

Oh well, I'm 51, seems I have become too old for this.

Mike 

1 year older than my dad!

I tought mages were pretty keeewwlll ya know? Not shooting those pansy little blue spit balls.

[Chromie]

Mikealpha wrote...

Well, yes, adapt or perish, difficult question .
If I want fast action, I could walk to my sons XBOX (he would be surprised ) and play God of War or Castlevania or whatever.
Let me give one example: Tactical placement of the team members or tactical usage of the environment was always one important element in Bioware RPG games. It is useless now, if enemies suddenly warp or materialize from one edge to the other.  I understand, all this character placement is inconvenient for gamepad users, but I still don't get it, why it has to be so fast.
I haven't seen any romance scenes yet, but I also scratch my head regarding the 18+ age rating. Even a 12 year old would consider the fights a comic, no matter how much virtual ketchup is visible.
However, I don't loose my hope Bioware might return to their roots in the future.
Mike

I would be surprised that you found an Xbox that plays God of War!

[Luminary1919]

I'm hitting 30 this year and I have no idea what's going on in here. When you talk about companion customization kids here think you mean changing the way they look. Also many of these threads sound like movie reviews without any mention about what's happened to crafting and specializations.

I still feel way too young to be left behind like this.

[Sidac]

Esbatty wrote...

 shuffleboard ain't a bad idea.

Im only 22 and I find shuffleboard fun! I know Im getting old and grey already.

[Wygrath]

Cuthlan wrote...

I've been playing rpgs as long as anyone here (Legend of the Red Dragon on BBS was my first), and this is more my style. I never used the autopause function in the Baldur's Gate games, and always tried to avoid a pause-and-play style because I found it so slow and immersion-breaking. I felt less like the Bhaalspawn and more like the hand of God directing the events of the world. I wanted my companions to do what they were supposed to do as if they were real people, while I did what I was supposed to do as if I were the Bhaalspawn.

The constant of Bioware games is the story. Give me the same quality of story I got from those games with improved action, and I'm happy. Which is why I am a fan of DA2 and the evolution of Bioware's games.

It's good to see someone else who isn't looking at 13 year old games through rose-colored glasses. Well said.

[xnode]

lol this thread is great, I am 43 myself and know the heartakes of missing out on "how it was". For me the games fast concept isn't so bad when we still have the pause with spacebar and I used it constantly in gameplay. (play on hard and crazy you will know why)... but my issue with the game was more for the fact it isn't a bioware game I am use too or in fact ever played. (see my rant in my personal post) but as an older guy, I get the whole "adapt or move on" and I enjoy many new aspects of these games, but with da2, the combat changes along with the graphical changes seemed like a green flag for the development team to tell the docs "well we don't have time to add more content, we can just rinse and repeat" and in the end that's what they did.

[livewired500]

I like the real time action of RPGs of late. I just don't know why it has to be so fast. They all fight like they smoked meth right before. It's a bit hard to appreciate the animations with it moving at light speed.

[Speakeasy13]

I enjoy DA2 as much as the next person, but I do miss the good'ol days of 6-men party-based combat of Baldr's Gate. For me it was about using your imagination to make up what the cinematic wasn't showing you. The Black Isle games were like a book that you can pause at anytime and enjoy it in your own way at your own pace, whereas the games nowadays are like movies. I don't wish real time games away, but I do wish we at least get some good games like BG back, which DA2 isn't.

[Medhia Nox]

There's nothing new with liking rubbish - when I was young I liked rubbish too.

[VanDraegon]

Another older gamer here. 42. I agree with you for the most part. The fast paced combat is just a bit too fast for my taste. Lets hope that Bioware and EA take something away from the feed back they been getting when it comes time to get to work on DA3. Hopefully they will take a couple steps back towards the DA:O style of game and away from the console-ized type that DA2 is.

[Oliver Sudden]

Buncha kids in this thread. Just wait til you're my age and need to get 1/2" from the monitor to try and make out the name of some distant enemy.

The saving grace of this game is that, while the combat action is fast, it's much easier to win than in DA:O. Even though I can't keep up with all the running around and silly acrobatics, I hardly ever need to since the party usually survives anyway without my interference or direction.

Which reminds me ... how come my rogue doesn't try to save some stamina by just, you know, throwing those flasks? Seems to me that would be a lot less effort than roundhouse kicks.

[vigna]

Ringo12 wrote...

Don't criticize what you can't understand

Because we are all so stoopid.

What kind of statement is that? What doesn't the OP or other people get? we don't want to see Bioware turn their RPGs into Halo....what's wrong with that? If you want halo...buy halo.

Whoops..edit.....Let me say "I" rather..I don't want to see.

Modifié par vigna, 20 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

[Rocambole4]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Hate to say it, but this really is the best course for a company to be successful. Just take solace in the fact that twenty, thirty years from now the generation that caused this genre shift will be feeling out pains when they get left behind by the next coolest thing.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The gaming industry in going through an identity crysis right now. EVERY game must be the same, play the same, look the same.

Just think about other industries - should a Hummer try to look like a Porshe? Should every soda be coke flavored?

People have different tastes. When everything is a clone of whatever leads the market, only 2 or 3 games will be sucessfull.

In marketing, usually the 2nd place in any marketing in the opposite to the first. Then the clones start to appear.

I dunno what happen to the game industry, they seem to ignore so many marketing laws it's like their businessmen are all amateurs. While others say mercenaries (and they should be, the jobs on the companies they work depend on them taking the right steps), they just seem ignorant to me.

Trying to think about an example, just look at Shogun 2. The game has amazing graphics, deep gameplay but it's true to the roots. It doesn't try to be more acessible. It doesn't try to appeal to kids with ADD, either you like it or you don't. But who likes it loves it.

DA:O had this stroke of genius. It was not for everyone, but for a crowd long forgotten by the game industry. When they make DA 2 an hybrid RPG/God of War clone, they simply fail. And I'm talking about a marketing fail, not "the betrayal of ideal RPG art" or something romantic.

I feel kinda sorry for the guys behind DA:O. They had a good plan and an incredible niche product. Then they where overpowered by not-so-bright marketing managers. Now they have an average mainstream game.

[Oliver Sudden]

Just like people, a company's success, I think, depends on that company's goals. Starbucks wants a location everywhere in the world and McDonalds wants to make sure everyone on the planet can eat their hamburgers and end up getting and needing billions of dollars to run their businesses.

But the mom and pop deli where I buy my sandwiches doesn't want to become the largest food-provider on the planet, they just want to make a (good) living selling their sandwiches.

A huge company like EA or Bethesda needs sales in the millions to overcome their overhead and make a profit. Smaller companies don't need to sell as many copies of their games to make a good living for their smaller staff so they might not be as likely to try to capture the largest audience possible.

Or, I could be all wrong.

[Medhia Nox]

Rocambole4 - I hate you (not really, don't be silly). I purchased DA:2 instead of Shogun 2... I've been kicking myself every day since Shogun came out.

They actually realized the Empire: Total War was a failure in their eyes - they realized that sometimes new isn't better. I admire them... and I regret making the wrong purchase.