160 réponses à ce sujet

[fluorine7]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

He'll sit next to you, but he's still not terribly sensitive.  He doesn't know how to give emotional aid or comfort.  The most sensitive thing he does is know he should show up.

But give him a break.  In Act 3, if you're still in romance with him, he does say something much nicer about it.  I love his character because he is very self reflective.  I was surprised he mentioned mother's death in Act 3, 3 years later.  As though he'd been thinking about it, healed some of his issues, and felt his initial response was inadequate.  This is in a random party conversation, not a cut scene.

The entire Mother dying thing is just really hard for me. I'm on my second run, still feeling pretty broken up about it. But I guess Fen showing up is kind of the best he can do, and it is consistant with his personality and over all character development. I always wanted to romance the strong and silent type, now I get my wish, only to find out it's not that easy. 

[Vhalkyrie]

fluorine7 wrote...

The entire Mother dying thing is just really hard for me. I'm on my second run, still feeling pretty broken up about it. But I guess Fen showing up is kind of the best he can do, and it is consistant with his personality and over all character development. I always wanted to romance the strong and silent type, now I get my wish, only to find out it's not that easy. 

I know what you mean.  My first playthrough I was completely shocked, and totally absorbed into it.  I romanced Anders on the first playthrough, and he was very emotionally supportive.  I'm glad for that, because I was so shocked.  I don't know what I would have done if I had romanced Fenris on the first time through and he was so cold about it.

Basically, if you want the emotionally sensitive guy who says all the right things, but becomes a mass murderer,stick with Anders.  If you can put up with gruff exterior, a huge grudge, poor emotional support, but eventually becomes a loyal lover who doesn't kill hundreds of innocent people in a single act, Fenris is your man.

Fenris and Anders both end up committing acts of vengeance.  Anders just does it on a massive scale.

I wouldn't describe Fenris as the strong, silent type.  He's very emotionally disturbed/unstable.  His moral compass is bent.  He's just as bent for vengeance as Anders, but he doesn't have a spirit of Justice to blame.  Anders says as much during random banter.  Not sure if you've already completed his quest on another play through, but it's a surprise to learn how noble he once was.  The truth of his lyrium infusion was surprising, and touching.  It's even more interesting if you play through again and listen to him before he knows how it happened.  Very ironic.  After knowing what happened, I can understand why he left Hawke after suddenly remembering everything, even for a moment, and why it was so upsetting.

Really the point of the story arc.  Many of the characters descend into madness, whether driven by demons or not.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 01:08 .

[fluorine7]

I didn't get to know how Fen get his lyrium marking from my first play through, but I end up kind of sort of guessed from what I read in some of the posts. But I figure I'll just pretend I don't know and enjoy the shock of it.

Both Fenris and Anders have tortured souls. I'm just glad Bioware is brave enough to create deeply flawed characters, instead of trying to please everyone. FFX's Yuki is a perfect example of a perfect NPC, sweet, gentle, courageous, selfless, not mention beautiful and motherly/sisterly... I hate this kind of character, perfect=boring.

Emotion creates conflict, and a good story always has conflict. I guess that's why the most interesting characters are all kind of crazy one way or another. I think DA:O and DA2 (especially) did a great job reflect people's personal struggle against the greater social movement of Thedas. It almost plays out like a fable, we all have our demons to face.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

I'm going to guess that Fenris will not tolerate any hanky with anyone else, whether it was a one night stand or not.  I'm sure we can understand this from a real life perspective.  Like, you've known friends that have broken up with their partners, but still secretly hope they'll eventually end up together.  Then they slept with someone else while they were broken up, and it was over.  I think that's how it works with Fenris.  Anders is more sexually experienced/liberated.  He'll take you back.  Fenris won't.

I agree that some people react like this, and I would be totally FOR such realistic reactions, but see below.

The lie option is probably just a way for Hawke to say, "Thanks for the booty call".

See, I have to disagree with this. Because you could just as easily pick a flirt option as the 'booty call' and STILL break up after the sex. Why give it a different icon if you still get the same goods/consequences? I'm trying to see if the lie option has a mechanical difference, because if it doesn't then there's no point to it being a 'special' dialogue option. It's a red herring.

ejoslin wrote...

If Fenris showed up, the romance should still be active, otherwise Avaline does. It could be an approval thing.

I want a toolset as well. I hope they release it!

Fenris showing up gives me a lot of hope, I'll admit.

I'm hoping it's approval-based. When I get home I'll tinker with the savegame editor to max it out and see what happens. I'm just worried that there was no flirt option at Denarius like there was in my first game--but on second thoughts maybe I shouldn't be. You don't get a flirt option after A Bitter Pill if you haven't already done Questioning Beliefs (again like in my first game), and that doesn't mean the romance is dead. Merely delayed until game parameters are met.

Vhalkyrie wrote...

The lie option might also be affected by whether you are 'tough' Hawke or 'good' Hawke. Like on my 'tough' Hawke playthrough, I could successfully lie and bully in certain circumstances. 'Good' Hawke was unconvincing when threatening and lying to people.

If you've been using mostly top dialog options, then you probably aren't a good liar, and Anders (and Fen?) can see through it.

I *have* been using a tough answers Hawke. It's also a rivalmance (with both Fen AND the Andersfling) and gah, so many variables. MY KINGDOM FOR A TOOLSET XD

Anyhoo, if I figure it out I'll let people know since there seems to be quite a bit of debate about what is and isn't possible with romances.

[Vhalkyrie]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I *have* been using a tough answers Hawke. It's also a rivalmance (with both Fen AND the Andersfling) and gah, so many variables. MY KINGDOM FOR A TOOLSET XD

Anyhoo, if I figure it out I'll let people know since there seems to be quite a bit of debate about what is and isn't possible with romances.

Interesting. I'll reload a save game from my tough Hawke and see if what the lie option gives me.

[Edit] Drat.  I forgot that I was so angry in my second playthrough knowing what he was going to do, that I shot Anders down immediately.  So no romance option with Anders in Act 2.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 02:00 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The lie option gave me "It...never happened." And then Anders promptly steps forward and starts his love speech.

After the smex you have no choice but to let him move in or break off the romance. I chose an evasive snark when he said he loved me ("Want a sandwich?"), then when he asked to move in said no since it was that or a declaration of love.

PC: "I'm not...ready for that kind of committment."
Anders: "But...but we talked about this!"
PC *automated hard voice*: "I don't want to talk about it. Leave."
Anders: "You're breaking up with me? You used me! I won't forget this!"

(paraphrased, but close. I can get exact wording later if you wish.)

[Vhalkyrie]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The lie option gave me "It...never happened." And then Anders promptly steps forward and starts his love speech.

After the smex you have no choice but to let him move in or break off the romance. I chose an evasive snark when he said he loved me ("Want a sandwich?"), then when he asked to move in said no since it was that or a declaration of love.

PC: "I'm not...ready for that kind of committment."
Anders: "But...but we talked about this!"
PC *automated hard voice*: "I don't want to talk about it. Leave."
Anders: "You're breaking up with me? You used me! I won't forget this!"

(paraphrased, but close. I can get exact wording later if you wish.)

I'm still going to guess that Fenris won't go back, no matter the intention, by design.  The lie option might work for the other romancable characters.

The lie option also works in this context.  You lie to Anders about your feelings for Fenris so Anders will sleep with you.  But that doesn't mean Fenris will still love you.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[Goldens]

Vhalkyrie wrote...
I reloaded and did not rebound with Anders after Fenris left.  The similar random dialog went like:

Anders: I don't know what she sees in you.
Fenris: It's done.
Anders: Oh that's good.  I'm glad she came to her senses.
Fenris: Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Isabela: Oh stop you two.  You're like two dogs fighting over a b* in heat.
Fenris: We were talking about Hawke, not you.

Act 3, romance is on!

That's funny.  I had slept with Isabella before Fenris.  That banter for me looked like:

Anders: I don't know what she sees in you.
Fenris: It's done.
Anders: Oh that's good.  I'm glad she came to her senses.
Fenris: Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Isabela: Oh, will you two get over yourselves.  I did her too.

Edit: Also, Fenris came back to her in Act III.

Modifié par Goldens, 23 mars 2011 - 02:40 .

[Vhalkyrie]

Goldens wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...
I reloaded and did not rebound with Anders after Fenris left.  The similar random dialog went like:

Anders: I don't know what she sees in you.
Fenris: It's done.
Anders: Oh that's good.  I'm glad she came to her senses.
Fenris: Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Isabela: Oh stop you two.  You're like two dogs fighting over a b* in heat.
Fenris: We were talking about Hawke, not you.

Act 3, romance is on!

That's funny.  I had slept with Isabella before Fenris.  That banter for me looked like:

Anders: I don't know what she sees in you.
Fenris: It's done.
Anders: Oh that's good.  I'm glad she came to her senses.
Fenris: Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Isabela: Oh, will you two get over yourselves.  I did her too.

Edit: Also, Fenris came back to her in Act III.

Hah!  Now that is interesting.  Maybe he won't 'go where Anders has been'.  But digs the girl on girl thang.  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png  If Hawke doesn't hook up with Fenris, he hooks up with Isabela, so this is probably his dirty elf fantasy.  *chucklesnort*

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[Goldens]

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Hah!  Now that is interesting.  Maybe he won't 'go where Anders has been'.  But digs the girl on girl thang.    If Hawke doesn't hook up with Fenris, he hooks up with Isabela, so this is probably his dirty elf fantasy.  *chucklesnort*

Yeah, I stopped and blinked.  It was nicely reactive.

I love all the banters where all three companions contribute something.

[Vhalkyrie]

Goldens wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Hah!  Now that is interesting.  Maybe he won't 'go where Anders has been'.  But digs the girl on girl thang.    If Hawke doesn't hook up with Fenris, he hooks up with Isabela, so this is probably his dirty elf fantasy.  *chucklesnort*

Yeah, I stopped and blinked.  It was nicely reactive.

I love all the banters where all three companions contribute something.

I'm thinking it is Anders.  He won't touch you if you've been with Anders.  If you sleep with Anders before the Hadriana quest, you'll never get the kiss with Fenris.  If you sleep with Anders after Fenris, Fenris will 'just be friends' in Act 3.

Flirting is no problem.  I flirted with both Anders and Fenris throughout Act 1 and 2.  Once in Act 2, if I chose to sleep with Anders, then Fenris was no longer an option.  Anders would still take me back, if I chose Fenris first.  So if I wanted to complete romance with Fenris after he visits and dumps me, then I had to turn down Anders with the hammer option.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[fluorine7]

Fenris is just afraid of getting hurt I think. Anders is desperate, he know it's not long before he loose himself to Justice, and I think he has been planing that big fire work from years.... He's a classic crusader, devoted, single minded, manic and desperate.

[Sarielle]

Did not read the whole thread but apparently when you do have sex with Fen, then he gets ready to leave, the "So you're ending it?" line...actually ends it.

I did this on Jubilee and the romance was never restarted in Act III. Which, honestly, I thought the failed romance was more fun (and fitting, it was a rivalmance) so I was fine with it, but some may want to back up if they picked that line. xD

Also, Fenris STILL shows up during a very emotional time for Hawke and STILL wears the token even if the romance will never be restarted. So that's not an indicator, because I had no option to restart it and he still wore his token till the bitter end (which...was poignant).

edited for weird typos

Modifié par Sarielle, 23 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarielle wrote...

Did not read the whole thread but apparently when you do have sex with Fen, then he gets ready to leave, the "So you're ending it?" line...actually ends it.

I did this on Jubilee and the romance was never restarted in Act III. Which, honestly, I thought the failed romance was more fun (and fitting, it was a rivalmance) so I was fine with it, but some may want to back up if they picked that line. xD

Also, Fenris STILL shows up during a very emotional time for Hawke and STILL wears the token even if the romance will never be restarted. So that's not an indicator, because I had no option to restart it and he still wore his token till the bitter end (which...was poignant).

edited for weird typos

THAT is what worries me, since the "You're ending it?" line is the tough dialogue choice, IIRC. I can't remember if I picked that one or not and I had heard about this issue (feature? XD).

[Sabriana]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

<snip>

I wouldn't describe Fenris as the strong, silent type.  He's very emotionally disturbed/unstable.  His moral compass is bent.  He's just as bent for vengeance as Anders, but he doesn't have a spirit of Justice to blame.  Anders says as much during random banter.  Not sure if you've already completed his quest on another play through, but it's a surprise to learn how noble he once was.  The truth of his lyrium infusion was surprising, and touching.  It's even more interesting if you play through again and listen to him before he knows how it happened.  Very ironic.  After knowing what happened, I can understand why he left Hawke after suddenly remembering everything, even for a moment, and why it was so upsetting.

Really the point of the story arc.  Many of the characters descend into madness, whether driven by demons or not.

What? How did I miss that? Who's talking about that? My rogue never got that, she was on the friendmance track, and I really want to hear this.

[The Lesser Evil]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

THAT is what worries me, since the "You're ending it?" line is the tough dialogue choice, IIRC. I can't remember if I picked that one or not and I had heard about this issue (feature? XD).

The "You're ending it?" is the break-y heart option, IIRC, not the tough/aggressive one. Pick it and it's splitsville!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

No, I just checked--it's a fist icon. The only heart-breaky one in that dialogue is "I didn't want more," which I know I didn't pick.

Anyway, I just checked (with maxed rivalry) and there was no make-up kiss in Questioning Beliefs. So either the romance dies with 'You're ending it?" or making out with another NPC. I don't know if I want to replay half of Act 2 to verify. >.<

[Fault Girl]

Sabriana wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

<snip>

I wouldn't describe Fenris as the strong, silent type.  He's very emotionally disturbed/unstable.  His moral compass is bent.  He's just as bent for vengeance as Anders, but he doesn't have a spirit of Justice to blame.  Anders says as much during random banter.  Not sure if you've already completed his quest on another play through, but it's a surprise to learn how noble he once was.  The truth of his lyrium infusion was surprising, and touching.  It's even more interesting if you play through again and listen to him before he knows how it happened.  Very ironic.  After knowing what happened, I can understand why he left Hawke after suddenly remembering everything, even for a moment, and why it was so upsetting.

Really the point of the story arc.  Many of the characters descend into madness, whether driven by demons or not.

What? How did I miss that? Who's talking about that? My rogue never got that, she was on the friendmance track, and I really want to hear this.

SPOILERS


his act 3 quest "Alone", let the sister live and it shall come to light

[fluorine7]

ZombieGeisha wrote...




SPOILERS


his act 3 quest "Alone", let the sister live and it shall come to light

what?! I kill her off twice already!!! I'll reload a save and do the quest again! damn it! How could I miss that!!! 

Man I hope I had a save for that.....Ah.... Gosh I can't replay Entire Act 3 again!!! 

Modifié par fluorine7, 23 mars 2011 - 10:14 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Mary Kirby says that sleeping with Anders or Merrill will automatically supercede the other romances even if you dump them straight afterwards.

link to quote

Well...damn. :/

[Vhalkyrie]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Mary Kirby says that sleeping with Anders or Merrill will automatically supercede the other romances even if you dump them straight afterwards.

link to quote

Well...damn. :/

That's what I thought.  Thanks for looking that up.

[quickthorn]

fluorine7 wrote...

Man I hope I had a save for that.....Ah.... Gosh I can't replay Entire Act 3 again!!! 

If you have a save for the start of Act 3, you will probably get the chance to go and talk to Fenris almost immediately (he was at 100% both times for me, so I don't know if that makes a difference). And then the Alone quest should trigger.  So you won't have to play through too much. 

[Vhalkyrie]

fluorine7 wrote...

Fenris is just afraid of getting hurt I think. Anders is desperate, he know it's not long before he loose himself to Justice, and I think he has been planing that big fire work from years.... He's a classic crusader, devoted, single minded, manic and desperate.

I'm on my 3rd playthrough, and I have a really tough time even considering romancing Anders, knowing what he will eventually do.  My 3rd playthrough is as a templar warrior though, so Fenris makes more sense anyway.  However, with Anders, whenever he flirts with Hawke, all I can think of is, 'You lying bastard.  Did you ever love Hawke??'  All of the sweet, touching moments seem more hollow.

Some of my save games for talking with Anders are named 'sonofa', 'bastard', and 'lying bastard'. 

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 11:27 .

[Vhalkyrie]

Anders was my favorite character from Awakenings. In Awakenings, I always secretly wished for an option to romance him.  My Warden only got one flirt option with him.  It went something like,

Anders: "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." 
Warden: "Pretty girl, right here!" 
Anders: "Hmm.  Maybe I'm closer to the dream then I imagine."

Boy did he get his dream, and then some. 

I'm not mad at the writers for this story arc. I don't think it would have been as tragic if it had been an unknown character I didn't have attachments to. Varric hints as much during one of his banters, that it's not a good story unless the hero dies (or has a downfall). I'm just afraid now that I'm attached to Fenris, they are going to do something terrible to him in a DLC or DA3!!!

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 11:47 .

[Sarielle]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

No, I just checked--it's a fist icon. The only heart-breaky one in that dialogue is "I didn't want more," which I know I didn't pick.

Anyway, I just checked (with maxed rivalry) and there was no make-up kiss in Questioning Beliefs. So either the romance dies with 'You're ending it?" or making out with another NPC. I don't know if I want to replay half of Act 2 to verify. >.<

For me it was an icon with the three arrows which hints at just a "more dialogue" choice. It seems buggy. -shrug-

Edit: Something I am curious about, what triggers the "Questioning Beliefs" for him? My only complete playthrough I had already done it before Hadriana, but I was trying out a rogue and I got the Hadriana quest and had yet to do questioning beliefs.

Modifié par Sarielle, 23 mars 2011 - 12:59 .