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[_Aine_]

fluorine7 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

He'll sit next to you, but he's still not terribly sensitive.  He doesn't know how to give emotional aid or comfort.  The most sensitive thing he does is know he should show up.

But give him a break.  In Act 3, if you're still in romance with him, he does say something much nicer about it.  I love his character because he is very self reflective.  I was surprised he mentioned mother's death in Act 3, 3 years later.  As though he'd been thinking about it, healed some of his issues, and felt his initial response was inadequate.  This is in a random party conversation, not a cut scene.

The entire Mother dying thing is just really hard for me. I'm on my second run, still feeling pretty broken up about it. But I guess Fen showing up is kind of the best he can do, and it is consistant with his personality and over all character development. I always wanted to romance the strong and silent type, now I get my wish, only to find out it's not that easy. 

I think Fenris considers hollow words said for the right reasons, still that...hollow.  He knows words will be inadequate and so chooses his presense, something real over something that could never match what he knows the other may be enduring.  "Will it comfort you?" "No, but then I know you care." is usually the sentiment anyway.

When I think of people like Fenris, I kind of think of them like icebergs.  You only see a very little bit of what is happening under the surface. Being demonstrative may be easier in some ways to deal with, but it doesn't diminish what they do offer you ( maybe it increases the value even, in a small way.) Anders was more like a tornado. Maybe spinning too fast to be able to catch much, but you know a tempest when you see one.   (and for the record, I romanced them both happily on different characters lol) 

[Vhalkyrie]

shantisands wrote...
I think Fenris considers hollow words said for the right reasons, still that...hollow.  He knows words will be inadequate and so chooses his presense, something real over something that could never match what he knows the other may be enduring.  "Will it comfort you?" "No, but then I know you care." is usually the sentiment anyway.

When I think of people like Fenris, I kind of think of them like icebergs.  You only see a very little bit of what is happening under the surface. Being demonstrative may be easier in some ways to deal with, but it doesn't diminish what they do offer you ( maybe it increases the value even, in a small way.) Anders was more like a tornado. Maybe spinning too fast to be able to catch much, but you know a tempest when you see one.   (and for the record, I romanced them both happily on different characters lol)

Fenris had no way to relate to Hawke at that point.  He had no memory of his life before he became Danarius' slave.  He had not care for or lost anyone he cared about since that time.  He had filled in the gaps that he was either sold into slavery by his parents, or born into it, which makes it easier to hate the family he can't remember. 

One of the dialog options says something to that affect.  He can't remember his mother.  I actually thought that was a cruel dialog option on Hawke's part.  Like she was trying to redirect her grief to feel better, knowing Fenris had no memory of his mother, so why ask about it? 

He had no reference point for caring about someone, then suddenly losing them.  Until he met Hawke.

Anders and Fenris are not so different in a few ways.  This is one of them, actually.  Mages in the Circle were too afraid to care for someone, because it could be used against them.  Or they would eventually be torn apart by the Templars.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 02:37 .

[Patriciachr34]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

shantisands wrote...
I think Fenris considers hollow words said for the right reasons, still that...hollow.  He knows words will be inadequate and so chooses his presense, something real over something that could never match what he knows the other may be enduring.  "Will it comfort you?" "No, but then I know you care." is usually the sentiment anyway.

When I think of people like Fenris, I kind of think of them like icebergs.  You only see a very little bit of what is happening under the surface. Being demonstrative may be easier in some ways to deal with, but it doesn't diminish what they do offer you ( maybe it increases the value even, in a small way.) Anders was more like a tornado. Maybe spinning too fast to be able to catch much, but you know a tempest when you see one.   (and for the record, I romanced them both happily on different characters lol)

Fenris had no way to relate to Hawke at that point.  He had no memory of his life before he became Danarius' slave.  He had not care for or lost anyone he cared about since that time.  He had filled in the gaps that he was either sold into slavery by his parents, or born into it, which makes it easier to hate the family he can't remember. 

One of the dialog options says something to that affect.  He can't remember his mother.  I actually thought that was a cruel dialog option on Hawke's part.  Like she was trying to redirect her grief to feel better, knowing Fenris had no memory of his mother, so why ask about it? 

He had no reference point for caring about someone, then suddenly losing them.  Until he met Hawke.

Anders and Fenris are not so different in a few ways.  This is one of them, actually.  Mages in the Circle were too afraid to care for someone, because it could be used against them.  Or they would eventually be torn apart by the Templars.

Fenris may not be able to understand the loss of a loved one, but he does understand the feeling of helplessness Hawke is faced with at the death of her mother.  I think this is what he is trying to convey in that scene.

[Vhalkyrie]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Fenris may not be able to understand the loss of a loved one, but he does understand the feeling of helplessness Hawke is faced with at the death of her mother.  I think this is what he is trying to convey in that scene.

Agreed.  For my Hawke, the fact he showed up was enough.  She didn't need or want him to say anything else.  Anything he did say wasn't going to help, so the little said, the better.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 04:22 .

[fluorine7]

Oh I saw the puppy eyes~~~~ yeah~~~~

When facing Danarius, I end up having him killing her sister (which is a mistake...I'll redo the quest tonight to know where all his markings from....Finally... after 2 play through....). But, after he's like all sad and saying he's alone, and I told him he has me, and..... THERE. IT. IS~~~~ puppy eyes.

The first time I actually have my arrows blocked his face (I'm playing a rouge archer), I end up load the game, fight Danarius, at the last moment, unequipe my bow, just so I can see his face....

man the thing we do for polygon love.

Looks like I'm gonna reload again....

[fluorine7]

Also on Fenris personality, I think both Anders and Fenris are insecure in their own way. Their motivation is mostly driven by fear, fear of becoming an abomination, fear of being made tranquil, fear of being taken back by old master, fear of getting too close and loose everything again. And both of their fear leads to hatred.

But compare to Anders, I like Fenris more. As afraid as he is, even given the chance, he will not blow up the circle and kill off all mages. Although, Anders action is not about killing or revenge, rather, he wants to push the event forward to the point there's no return.

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

[Vhalkyrie]

fluorine7 wrote...

Also on Fenris personality, I think both Anders and Fenris are insecure in their own way. Their motivation is mostly driven by fear, fear of becoming an abomination, fear of being made tranquil, fear of being taken back by old master, fear of getting too close and loose everything again. And both of their fear leads to hatred.

But compare to Anders, I like Fenris more. As afraid as he is, even given the chance, he will not blow up the circle and kill off all mages. Although, Anders action is not about killing or revenge, rather, he wants to push the event forward to the point there's no return.

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

Yeah, Anders says as much.  "I love you, but some things are more important than love."

[fluorine7]

When I watched Star War 3, when Anakin turn to the dark side, Padme said:"Anakin, you're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can not follow." I remember myself thinking: this is such a cheesy line....

And I'm surprised to find myself thinking exactly the same thing when Anders blow up the Chantry. My fem-Hawk-mage really really love him.... But he's walking on a path I can not follow. Somehow I feel that I should've seen it coming.

On my first walk through, Fenris actually come and say to me at one point: Anders is a self man, he'll choose his cause over your love. And at the point, I know Fenris is a better man.

[Vhalkyrie]

fluorine7 wrote...

When I watched Star War 3, when Anakin turn to the dark side, Padme said:"Anakin, you're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can not follow." I remember myself thinking: this is such a cheesy line....

And I'm surprised to find myself thinking exactly the same thing when Anders blow up the Chantry. My fem-Hawk-mage really really love him.... But he's walking on a path I can not follow. Somehow I feel that I should've seen it coming.

On my first walk through, Fenris actually come and say to me at one point: Anders is a self man, he'll choose his cause over your love. And at the point, I know Fenris is a better man.

On my first playthough, I really wanted to dump Anders and execute him.  But since I was a mage, I decided to follow him on his revolution as a seditionist.  On my second playthough, I played with a vengeance (reference is intentional) - my intent was to execute him.

However, when the moment came, I was more emotionally conflicted than I expected.  Anders was my favorite from Awakenings, and I always secretly wished for a romance with him.  I thought my dream had come true.  I was very saddened.  He was my Warden's best friend; a lover to Hawke; deeply tortured and changed.  The moment when Hawke stuck the knife in him twisted up my insides.  Justice would have agreed it was necessary, but it wasn't as easy for me being involved in the story as I thought it would be.

It was excellent.  I loved it.  And I'm glad it was Anders.  If it had been some random, unknown character freshly introduced to the story, I don't think it would have meant the same.  I had that attachment to him from Awakenings, and it made his fate more tragic.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 23 mars 2011 - 08:11 .

[fluorine7]

I felt the same way, I like Anders in Awakening as well, especially after Alistair dumped me in DA:O, it's really nice to start a new journey with new friends, and Anders being sweet, funny, a bit sarcastic, and a total cat person, is just my type. I was a bit disappointed that there's no romance quest in Awakening, but I kind of flirt with him as much as I can, and take him everywhere I go.

After I heard Anders is back in DA2 and you can romance him, I was very happy and very determined to romance him, LOL. And the ending comes as a shock.... I should have seen it coming with his desperation, all that secret preparation, I should have know, I'm always pretty good at guessing the story ending... But I guess I just don't want to see it. I want to execute him on my first run, right there, kill him off, and maybe there's a slim chance of making things right. But I can't.

I remember I was sitting there and looking at the dialog wheel, and Anders so ready and willing to die for his cause, and I just can't push the button. Part of me just feel betrayed, that he die a martyr, and I was left with his mess! He got to see what he's done, he needs to see how stupid and naive he is, thinking blowing up buildings will solve the problem! He needs to take responsibility for his action.

So I didn't kill him.... Also, he's my only healer, I need him for the final battle.

[Sarielle]

fluorine7 wrote...

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

Eeeeeeeeh...sort of.

Have a failed romance with him and side with the mages (even if you kill Anders, which Jubilee did). See how bent on revenge he is. Keep in mind, it's a romance that he ended.

[Ryzaki]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Yeah, Anders says as much.  "I love you, but some things are more important than love."

And I was nodding in agreement because it's true. I don't want an LI that'll treat me like crap but at the same time I don't want one that drops everything they are and believe in for our love. 

My PC would't do it why should they? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Sabriana]

@ ZombieGeisha

Oh, thank you. I'm on my 2nd, and still in Act 2. I'm looking forward to seeing that, let me tell you. My first Hawke told Fenris to make his own call, and he killed his sister. Won't happen this time around.

Well, that is unless he gets really mad and leaves because Hawke tells him to let his sister live. But I'm fairly optimistic, she's only halfway through Act II, and Fenris is at 100 friend (inclusive red armband and crest, hehehe).

Note to self: Save before meeting sis.

[ejoslin]

Sarielle wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

Eeeeeeeeh...sort of.

Have a failed romance with him and side with the mages (even if you kill Anders, which Jubilee did). See how bent on revenge he is. Keep in mind, it's a romance that he ended.

That's more of an approval thing, though.  He will stick with Hawke with high enough -- or low enough -- approval.  In one of my playthroughs, instead of sticking with Fenris, I did Anders romance (I wanted to see it) after he left.  Even at the end, siding with the mages, keeping Anders alive, Fenris stuck with Hawke as he was at max rivalry.  My other playthroughs he was romanced and while he felt siding with the templars was the right thing (and said so a LOT the one time I sided with them for the achievement), he was fine with siding with the mages.  

Well, he was siding with Hawke.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 mars 2011 - 10:05 .

[Sarielle]

ejoslin wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

Eeeeeeeeh...sort of.

Have a failed romance with him and side with the mages (even if you kill Anders, which Jubilee did). See how bent on revenge he is. Keep in mind, it's a romance that he ended.

That's more of an approval thing, though.  He will stick with Hawke with high enough -- or low enough -- approval.  In one of my playthroughs, instead of sticking with Fenris, I did Anders romance (I wanted to see it) after he left.  Even at the end, siding with the mages, keeping Anders alive, Fenris stuck with Hawke as he was at max rivalry.  My other playthroughs he was romanced and while he felt siding with the templars was the right thing (and said so a LOT the one time I sided with them for the achievement), he was fine with siding with the mages.  

Well, he was siding with Hawke.

Hmm, this is interesting. I never tried one way or the other for full approval/rivalry. I am surprised that full rivalry is "better" as far as sticking with you than somewhere more in the middle. In that playthrough he was definitely more into the rivalry than the friendship, but they did agree on SOME things -- IE, slavery.

So I should have picked more fights with him to have him stay with my girl? That's...a little silly xD;

[ejoslin]

Sarielle wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

I feel that if given the choice, Fenris would choose Hawke, not revenge. Anders, however, will choose his crusade over and over again.

Eeeeeeeeh...sort of.

Have a failed romance with him and side with the mages (even if you kill Anders, which Jubilee did). See how bent on revenge he is. Keep in mind, it's a romance that he ended.

That's more of an approval thing, though.  He will stick with Hawke with high enough -- or low enough -- approval.  In one of my playthroughs, instead of sticking with Fenris, I did Anders romance (I wanted to see it) after he left.  Even at the end, siding with the mages, keeping Anders alive, Fenris stuck with Hawke as he was at max rivalry.  My other playthroughs he was romanced and while he felt siding with the templars was the right thing (and said so a LOT the one time I sided with them for the achievement), he was fine with siding with the mages.  

Well, he was siding with Hawke.

Hmm, this is interesting. I never tried one way or the other for full approval/rivalry. I am surprised that full rivalry is "better" as far as sticking with you than somewhere more in the middle. In that playthrough he was definitely more into the rivalry than the friendship, but they did agree on SOME things -- IE, slavery.

So I should have picked more fights with him to have him stay with my girl? That's...a little silly xD;

Full rivalry or  full approval is what matters -- rivalry is more like, "We disagree on many things, but I respect you anyway."  In fact, you need the approval to be at max in either direction for the romance to continue.

It's not a prefect system, but I think it's an improvement over gift spam until they fall in love.

[Sarielle]

ejoslin wrote...

Full rivalry or  full approval is what matters -- rivalry is more like, "We disagree on many things, but I respect you anyway."  In fact, you need the approval to be at max in either direction for the romance to continue.

It's not a prefect system, but I think it's an improvement over gift spam until they fall in love.

Yeah, I'll take not having to gift spam/utterly suck up to someone to still get a romance or some loyalty out of them, too.

I do think it's a little funny, though. And a tad frustrating that it has to be 100%, but meh. That annoyed me about Origins, too.

EDIT: LOL, though there needs to be a super materialistic character you can win by gift spam. Just one, for the giggles.

Modifié par Sarielle, 23 mars 2011 - 10:42 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarielle wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

No, I just checked--it's a fist icon. The only heart-breaky one in that dialogue is "I didn't want more," which I know I didn't pick.

Anyway, I just checked (with maxed rivalry) and there was no make-up kiss in Questioning Beliefs. So either the romance dies with 'You're ending it?" or making out with another NPC. I don't know if I want to replay half of Act 2 to verify. >.<

For me it was an icon with the three arrows which hints at just a "more dialogue" choice. It seems buggy. -shrug-

That icon was there too, but it was for "He left me." or something. It was separate to the other icons.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 23 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[_Aine_]

ejoslin wrote...

Full rivalry or  full approval is what matters -- rivalry is more like, "We disagree on many things, but I respect you anyway."  In fact, you need the approval to be at max in either direction for the romance to continue.

It's not a prefect system, but I think it's an improvement over gift spam until they fall in love.

There is some weirdness in it I think, because when I romanced Anders, I had Fenris at least 50% into rivalry but nowhere near maxed out, really, probably closer to even than it... he still ended up fighting with me in the end.  I didn't pick him in my party at the end, but when it came down to it, he fought on my side.  I have no idea why. I hadn't flirted, and didn't even know about his gifts in first play-through.  *shrugs*  

Needless to say, it made me give him a chance in my next playthrough, ironically as a mage.  I am friendship romancing him - the slaver stuff is enough to keep it there mostly.  That and my girl is heavily anti-blood mage.    

If it was a bug, I am glad it happened because it opened up my game to including Fenris as a companion. =)  I <3him.   And I especially love you can chose some renegadeish dialogue and have it still work out.  Being able to call him on being negative in Act 2 and hearing him stutter and then, almost sheepishly admit it made me lol, for real.  I had to reload to do it again.  classic.  

[fluorine7]

In my first play through I was romancing Anders, and sided with mages. I manage to get Fen up to somewhere 70-80% friendship, and still manage to convince him to sided with me in the final battle.

I think if he's on rivalry path, you need him to be at 100% rivalry to convince him to side with mages. but if he's on friendship path, you need him to pass 50% mark to switch side.

that's just my guess, I could be wrong.

[Sarielle]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

No, I just checked--it's a fist icon. The only heart-breaky one in that dialogue is "I didn't want more," which I know I didn't pick.

Anyway, I just checked (with maxed rivalry) and there was no make-up kiss in Questioning Beliefs. So either the romance dies with 'You're ending it?" or making out with another NPC. I don't know if I want to replay half of Act 2 to verify. >.<

For me it was an icon with the three arrows which hints at just a "more dialogue" choice. It seems buggy. -shrug-

That icon was there too, but it was for "He left me." or something. It was separate to the other icons.

Oh no, I was talking about the scene during which Fenris actually leaves you (post-nooky). It appears to end the romance (I never go the option to restart) but doesn't have the </3 icon.

Apparently we're talking about two different things, my bad. :B

[fluorine7]

Quick question guys, I'm in Act 3, have given Fenris 2 gifts + finish his personal quests + finished question belief conversation quest.... The romance is going well and all...

I know Fenris never moved in, but will he visits Hawke estate at night? like if I go home during night time will I see him there from time to time?

[Thiefy]

fluorine7 wrote...

Quick question guys, I'm in Act 3, have given Fenris 2 gifts + finish his personal quests + finished question belief conversation quest.... The romance is going well and all...

I know Fenris never moved in, but will he visits Hawke estate at night? like if I go home during night time will I see him there from time to time?

i am pretty sure he is the only companion that doesn't visit hawke

[fluorine7]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i am pretty sure he is the only companion that doesn't visit hawke

Damn that's depressing.....

[Sabriana]

But..., but he does. He does come by every night, I'm telling you. It's just not showing up on the monitor

Seriously though, where's the mod to fix that unfairness, that's what I'd like to know