16 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

I mean, you can make the best of their unique specialisations but I find them much more effective when they are real specialists, Spirit Healer and Blood Mage respectively and I think it fits their RPG characters much better.

So, am I wrong to do this?

[maegi46]

The real question here is HOW are you doing this?

[Rawke]

Uhm...kinda. Their unique abilities are there for a reason. The healing thing is only part of Anders' tree, he also has Vengeance, which is what makes him different from pure healers and all other characters. In fact, Justice/Vengeance is part of Anders now, the destructive side of his character, taking that away from him doesn't make any sense.
And Merill isn't really a blood mage in the traditional sense. First of all, the tree represents that blood magic may not be inherently evil. Hawke's abilities all concentrate on taking life energy from his enemies and even the own party (with the exception of one damage and one control spell). Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it.

To me, this argument would be a lame excuse to make them more effective gameplay-wise. Doesn't fit their characters at all IMO.

Modifié par Rawke, 20 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[Stardusk78]

maegi46 wrote...

The real question here is HOW are you doing this?

Console commands...

[atheelogos]

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

[Count Viceroy]

atheelogos wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

Except it's a form of magic that relies on demons and lifeforce to work. It isn't 'just' magic like the other schools.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 mars 2011 - 11:47 .

[atheelogos]

Count Viceroy wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

Except it's a form of magic that relies on demons and lifeforce to work. It isn't just magic like the other schools.

1. Demons are not necessary. You can learn Blood Magic from other people its just that its so rare that most mages don't know it so they can't teach it. In reaction to that some people turn to demons who know it for sure.

2. " and lifeforce to work" One could say the same thing about spirit or entropy. They often take life to power spells or replenish mana.

And so what if it relies on lifeforce to work? How is that in anyway evil?

[Cat Fancy]

Merrill's magic also uses lifeforce and she was, at the very least, taught how to use it by demons. That she can't suck the life out of her allies to heal herself is probably a balance thing, more than anything else. Besides, Hawke can only steal life from his (willing, I guess, even though that doesn't make sense for some of the touchier ones) allies, not his foes.

And yeah, you're cheating, OP. Giving them these abilities might not make the least amount of lore sense in the world, but they still lack them in the vanilla game. Whatever you helps you sleep at night, though.

It really doesn't matter.

[Rawke]

atheelogos wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

Except it's a form of magic that relies on demons and lifeforce to work. It isn't just magic like the other schools.

1. Demons are not necessary. You can learn Blood Magic from other people its just that its so rare that most mages don't know it so they can't teach it. In reaction to that some people turn to demons who know it for sure.

2. " and lifeforce to work" One could say the same thing about spirit or entropy. They often take life to power spells or replenish mana.

And so what if it relies on lifeforce to work? How is that in anyway evil?

Bad choice of words, I apologize. What I meant was mainly pointed at the Hawke's ability to drain life-force not from your enemy (like Merril does) but from your own party. Not exactly nice, is it? Same goes for the control ability; while it aims at enemies, it's very dangerous to use from a moral point of view. What would keep somebody from using it on innocents (you see it often enough in the story)  Human blood mages always seem to end up a s egoistic and powerhungry maniacs. Merril's tree represents the very core of magic, neither good nor bad, while Hawke's tree goes into the darker direction.

Modifié par Rawke, 20 mars 2011 - 12:11 .

[Bann Duncan]

Rawke wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

Except it's a form of magic that relies on demons and lifeforce to work. It isn't just magic like the other schools.

1. Demons are not necessary. You can learn Blood Magic from other people its just that its so rare that most mages don't know it so they can't teach it. In reaction to that some people turn to demons who know it for sure.

2. " and lifeforce to work" One could say the same thing about spirit or entropy. They often take life to power spells or replenish mana.

And so what if it relies on lifeforce to work? How is that in anyway evil?

Bad choice of words, I apologize. What I meant was mainly pointed at the Hawke's ability to drain life-force not from your enemy (like Merril does) but from your own party. Not exactly nice, is it? Same goes for the control ability; while it aims at enemies, it's very dangerous to use from a moral point of view. What would keep somebody from using it on innocents (you see it often enough in the story)  Human blood mages always seem to end up a s egoistic and powerhungry maniacs. Merril's tree represents the very core of magic, neither good nor bad, while Hawke's tree goes into the darker direction.

Spot-on! 

[Taura-Tierno]

Power corrupts, no? I always felt that Blood Magic was dispised more for the fact that it can control the minds of others than the fact that it uses blood. The path to hell is paved with good intentions seems awfully appropriate for Blood Magic. Sure, you can use it responsibly. But as with everything that actually manipulate minds and thoughts, it takes just one small step to make it very morally wrong. It's probably easier to get corrupted by using Blood Magic than by using, say, the Life school, considering what it's offering.

The blood part of Blood Magic just seems like something a bit unsettling, but not horrendous, since it can be your own blood.

Stealing life from willing companions might be a gray zone, but it's not evil. I assume they're willing. Why would it be restricted to allies, if not? Otherwise it'd be a whole lot better to just suck the life force out of enemies.

[atheelogos]

Rawke wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Rawke wrote...
Hawke's blood magic is "evil", while Merill has more of a "nature touch" to it. .

swing and a miss. Saying Merrill's blood magic isn't evil, but Hawke's is doesn't make any sense. That's like saying Hawke's primal tree is neutral and Merrill's is evil. Blood Magic is just magic. Not good or bad.

Except it's a form of magic that relies on demons and lifeforce to work. It isn't just magic like the other schools.

1. Demons are not necessary. You can learn Blood Magic from other people its just that its so rare that most mages don't know it so they can't teach it. In reaction to that some people turn to demons who know it for sure.

2. " and lifeforce to work" One could say the same thing about spirit or entropy. They often take life to power spells or replenish mana.

And so what if it relies on lifeforce to work? How is that in anyway evil?

Bad choice of words, I apologize. What I meant was mainly pointed at the Hawke's ability to drain life-force not from your enemy (like Merril does) but from your own party. Not exactly nice, is it? Same goes for the control ability; while it aims at enemies, it's very dangerous to use from a moral point of view. What would keep somebody from using it on innocents (you see it often enough in the story)  Human blood mages always seem to end up a s egoistic and powerhungry maniacs. Merril's tree represents the very core of magic, neither good nor bad, while Hawke's tree goes into the darker direction.

" Hawke's ability to drain life-force not from your enemy (like Merril does) but from your own party. Not exactly nice"
I think that's more a gameplay balancing mechanic.

"What would keep somebody from using it on innocents (you see it often enough in the story)"

Whats to stop people Anders from shooting lighting at fools? lol

But really these powers are not good or bad its how you use them that counts. One could just as easily set a house on fire with elemental or hit a bandat in the face with a rock through the primal tree and that could kill him, but it was in self defence so I wouldn't call it evil. Same goes for Blood Magic. If you use it to protect yourself then its no more evil than a sword being used to protect your lands.

"Merril's tree represents the very core of magic, neither good nor bad, while Hawke's tree goes into the darker direction." Again I'm pretty sure that's just a gameplay mechanic

Modifié par atheelogos, 20 mars 2011 - 12:21 .

[Maria Caliban]

Stardusk78 wrote...

So, am I wrong to do this?

The companion specialization trees are a fairly sophisticated form of storytelling. By fiddling with them, you're altering the character.

There's nothing wrong with it. Though as a narrative purist, it rubs me the wrong way a bit.

atheelogos wrote...

"Merril's tree represents the very core of magic, neither good nor bad, while Hawke's tree goes into the darker direction."

Again I'm pretty sure that's just a gameplay mechanic

No, it's not *just* a gameplay mechanic. It's also a reflection of the character. That's the reason the developers gave them unique specializations in the first place.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[Bann Duncan]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

So, am I wrong to do this?

The companion specialization trees are a fairly sophisticated form of storytelling. By fiddling with them, you're altering the character.

There's nothing wrong with it. Though as a narrative purist, it rubs me the wrong way a bit.

It was quite a refreshing change to see companion specialization trees, from an RP, standpoint. It really annoyed me that Morrigan, who was supposed to be the Witch of the Wilds, had the same magical skills as everyone else (shapeshifter aside).

With the companion specializations, it's evident that different characters have different backgrounds and training. It makes multiple party members of the same class far less redundant.

[Stardusk78]

So I shouldn't do it?

[mesmerizedish]

Stardusk78 wrote...

So I shouldn't do it?

From a gameplay standpoint, you're fine.

From a characterization standpoint, you're upsetting Maria. I hate upsetting Maria. Not everyone feels as I do, though.

[Fadook]

There is a story-related point to the companion's unique specialisations, so I guess you're cheating in that sense. What isn't cheating at all to my mind is to add the missing spell trees for a mage e.g. give Bethany Primal, give Merril Creation etc. Why BW decided to restrict choices in that way is beyond me. It's bad from a mechanics standpoint and bad for RP as well as it forces you to use certain characters.