20 réponses à ce sujet

[mjharper]

 I'm putting together a Strength / Consitution Blood Mage at them moment (who is going to romance Fenris and side with the Templars ), and trying to figure out what the Magic stat actually does.

I'm not going to wear mage robes but warrior armour, so I don't need Magic (or Willpower) for that.

There are decent endgame staffs like Voracity which don't have Magic requirements, so although I my choice will be limited, I don't need it for that.

AFAIK, there is no 'spell power' characteristic in DA2, so I don't need Magic there either.

Magic obviously contributes to Magic resistence, which is all well and good, but I can probably live without it.

So as far as I can see, the only thing Magic contributes to Attack Rating for mages: but what on earth does that do? Does that affect all spells? Basic ranged attacks? Melee only?

Or is there something else I'm missing?

[swk3000]

Magic also determines damage with spells. So by not boosting your Magic score, you're making your spells far weaker.

[mesmerizedish]

Magic determines how much damage you do across the board, both staves and spells. By neglecting it, you're essentially neutralizing your offensive capacity. You'll be doing so little damage that you might as well not be there, especially at higher levels.

[mesmerizedish]

And attack determines your chance to hit with auto-attacks. Spells never miss. But auto-attacks comprise a large portion of your attacks (I don't know how much damage they account for, though).

[mjharper]

So there is actually something like 'spell power'? But what exactly? How does is affect, say, damage from Winter's Grasp or Hemorrhage? Or health received from Grave Digger? Or does it only affect damage from the staff?

In DAO it was (relatively) clear what the effect was, but I don't see any proper description in the game itself, or in the Piggyback guide.

Modifié par mjharper, 20 mars 2011 - 12:20 .

[mesmerizedish]

I don't know the exact forumlae at work. But strength, dexterity, and magic, along with the damage value if your weapon, are the chief contributors to damage with auto-attacks, talents, and spells. Warriors use strength, rogues dexterity, and mages magic.

[swk3000]

Look at the Attributes section for Hawke. At the top are the 6 main attributes. Underneath, the first one is damage. As you increase your Magic stat, you'll also see this stat increase.

[SlamminHams]

Magic does add damage to spell, but not a whole lot. Ability damage is a function of your damage stat, which is derived from your weapon and primary attribute.

You gain .5 damage per Magic. Compare that to pretty much any weapon from the end of Act 2 onward, you're looking at your Staff basically adding 4-6 times the amount of damage that the Magic stat does.

I don't know if other weapons, like 2Hs or Daggers, will add to your ability damage though.  I don't see why they wouldn't.  There's a few non-mage weaponry (2Hs, Daggers, etc) that have no restrictions.  Would be interesting to see, especially with Bows, seeing as their damage is usually 2 to 3 times that of everything else.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 20 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[mesmerizedish]

SlamminHams wrote...

Magic does add damage to spell, but not a whole lot. Ability damage is a function of your damage stat, which is derived from your weapon and primary attribute.

You gain .5 damage per Magic. Compare that to pretty much any weapon from the end of Act 2 onward, you're looking at your Staff basically adding 4-6 times the amount of damage that the Magic stat does.

But you need magic to equip those staves. You'll be gimped while holding out for Voracity.

[SlamminHams]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

But you need magic to equip those staves. You'll be gimped while holding out for Voracity.

Staff of Parlathan and Apostate's Courage don't have a Magic requirement.  Either of these would easily carry you to Valdasine, which could carry you to another and another and etc.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 20 mars 2011 - 12:42 .

[SlamminHams]

mjharper wrote...

So as far as I can see, the only thing Magic contributes to Attack Rating for mages: but what on earth does that do? Does that affect all spells? Basic ranged attacks? Melee only?

Beyond what I've detailed, Attack Rating helps your accuracy for Auto-Attacks.  If you don't "hit" with an attack, it becomes a glancing blow, dealing like 5% of what it should.

[mjharper]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

SlamminHams wrote...

Magic does add damage to spell, but not a whole lot. Ability damage is a function of your damage stat, which is derived from your weapon and primary attribute.

You gain .5 damage per Magic. Compare that to pretty much any weapon from the end of Act 2 onward, you're looking at your Staff basically adding 4-6 times the amount of damage that the Magic stat does.

But you need magic to equip those staves. You'll be gimped while holding out for Voracity.

Staff of Parthalan doesn't require Magic to equip, and neither do the ones you get for rescuing Sandal, or completing Sketch's quest. There is definitely less choice, but it seems viable to me.

Still, if all Magic does is increase damage from the staff, and not from spells, then it isn't much use to a Blood Mage / Entropy CCer...

Life would certainly be easier if the Maker's Sigh potion wasn't bugged.

[Tomark]

mmmh. Is maker's sigh bugged only with mage Hawke? because i never had any bug with it so far (i didn't use maker's sigh with my mage hawke).

[SlamminHams]

mjharper wrote...

Still, if all Magic does is increase damage from the staff, and not from spells, then it isn't much use to a Blood Mage / Entropy CCer...

No no.  I think you misread what I wrote.

Magic does increase your all your damage as a Mage.  But, the rate at which it does is paltry compared to how influential your weapon is, more specifically, the DPS/Damage stat on your weapon.  Most spells seem to have a formula somewhat like this:

Damage Done = (.5*(Magic-10) + Weapon Damage)*X

Where X is the spells modifier.  Tempest has something like a .5 modifier whereas Winter's Grasp has around a 2.5 to 3.5 modifier.  Final Thought is one of the best staffs in the game and it has 48 Damage.  For your Magic stat to have an equal benefit, you'd need 106 Magic.

[mjharper]

Tomark wrote...

mmmh. Is maker's sigh bugged only with mage Hawke? because i never had any bug with it so far (i didn't use maker's sigh with my mage hawke).

It's bugged for everyone, AFAIK. If you have gear in your backpack when you use it, it gives you bonus skills. Not gamebreaking exactly, but a bit of a pain if you want to experiment.

[mjharper]

SlamminHams wrote...

mjharper wrote...

Still, if all Magic does is increase damage from the staff, and not from spells, then it isn't much use to a Blood Mage / Entropy CCer...

No no.  I think you misread what I wrote.

Magic does increase your all your damage as a Mage.  But, the rate at which it does is paltry compared to how influential your weapon is, more specifically, the DPS/Damage stat on your weapon.  Most spells seem to have a formula somewhat like this:

Damage Done = (.5*(Magic-10) + Weapon Damage)*X

Where X is the spells modifier.  Tempest has something like a .5 modifier whereas Winter's Grasp has around a 2.5 to 3.5 modifier.  Final Thought is one of the best staffs in the game and it has 48 Damage.  For your Magic stat to have an equal benefit, you'd need 106 Magic.

Thanks for the clarification.

But I'm still basically right in thinking that Magic doesn't actually contribute much, aren't I? And a build which uses warrior armour and (say) Voracity) should be viable with just points in Strength and Constitution...

Sorry if it seems it's taking me a while to get my head around this 

[mesmerizedish]

Magic contributes about half as much as staff damage at higher values of magic (the -10 bit mucks it up). So, that's about a third of your total damage, if staff damage and (magic-10) are equal, which is the case for a level 20ish mage who invests in magic.

[SlamminHams]

mjharper wrote...

But I'm still basically right in thinking that Magic doesn't actually contribute much, aren't I? And a build which uses warrior armour and (say) Voracity) should be viable with just points in Strength and Constitution...

Not, it definitely makes sense.  There are enough staffs to go between that don't have a Magic requirement that your damage would hardly ever suffer.

I do think it would be smart to only ever hit your Strength thresholds, then go Magic and Constitution.  Extra Strength beyond what you need for equiping armor would be more of a waste than Magic, especially if you plan on going Force Mage.

I plan on actually doing the same thing in my next playthrough.

[mjharper]

SlamminHams wrote...

mjharper wrote...

But I'm still basically right in thinking that Magic doesn't actually contribute much, aren't I? And a build which uses warrior armour and (say) Voracity) should be viable with just points in Strength and Constitution...

Not, it definitely makes sense.  There are enough staffs to go between that don't have a Magic requirement that your damage would hardly ever suffer.

I do think it would be smart to only ever hit your Strength thresholds, then go Magic and Constitution.  Extra Strength beyond what you need for equiping armor would be more of a waste than Magic, especially if you plan on going Force Mage.

I plan on actually doing the same thing in my next playthrough.

That's kind of what I was thinking. So far I've pumped Strength and Consitution in order to be able to wear the Blood Dragon set (I admit I modified the appearance to resemble the fake champion armour). Then go 1 STR / 2 CON until I reach about 29 Strength, which seems to be enough to wear the Cuirass of the Centurion and other high-end armours. Then go 1 MAG / 2 CON for the rest of the game.

[SlamminHams]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Magic contributes about half as much as staff damage at higher values of magic (the -10 bit mucks it up). So, that's about a third of your total damage, if staff damage and (magic-10) are equal, which is the case for a level 20ish mage who invests in magic.

The point is to not completely neglect the Magic stat.

For a very relevant example, Blood Mages don't need Willpower.  So, you spec either Willpower (a useless, dump stat) up to the necessary level, then pump the rest into Constitution and Magic.  Or, you invest in Strength (a useless, dump stat) up to the necessary level, then pump the rest into Constiution and Magic.  The difference?  You're wearing plate that gives +HP and +Attack instead of useless +Mana or +Mana Regen and you have a whole hell of a lot more armor to boot.

Even then, it's probably smarter to wear Plate armor for the first half of the game as a Mage, since you only lose 10-50 damage on spells, versus a ridiculous amount of survivability.

[mesmerizedish]

Oooh... that clarifies things a lot. *sigh* Mages suck. But I want to play one. But I can't kill Bethany. It's all so very hard.