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[R2s Muse]

I've always liked that orphan, Chantry-raised notion for Cullen's backstory, as well - particularly because he has no family name (that we know of) and the fact that he's so devout.

@CulturalGeekGirl, I ran across that Fledglings story recommended elsewhere on the Boards -- possibly even suggested by you? -- and was glad I did, as I loved it. I could totally see young Alistair and Cullen like that! Seeing their personalities contrasted definitely supports the idea of their slightly different early upbringings.

re: Cullen's potential solider background --
I would also love to know if that were true! I wonder though...  I guess I'd imagine that if he had been a soldier he'd be more seasoned, and he seemed so green in DA:O. But that could be a skewed POV since he may only appear that way around certain female mages.

I'd also been wondering what the devs might have to say about Cullen. I would LOVE it if you were brave enough to ask, Gala! I'm sure you'd be great! You're a Cullen expert! The fact that there's no action from them here had not seemed SO unusual to me as it seems that most of the dev posts in the other companion/NPC threads were from when the game was coming out (plus some Legacy follow up). That said, you'd hope they'd be intrigued by such a long lasting thread dedicated to a non-companion!

EDIT for top -- The first time Cullen speaks up in contradiction to Meredith... poor thing

Modifié par R2s Muse, 08 août 2011 - 12:23 .

[Vaeya]

@Bekkael- Hahah XD Oops. My bad, sorry x3

@Gala- Oh I wouldn't be afraid of PMing them. I don't think they'll hate you just for mispelling/typos etc. You're human as well as them. The only difference is that they probably have editors/do it for a living. :3 I'm sure they'd appreciate it, actually.

@Avilia- No, I have not. And I can't seem to view it, it says I do not have permission. Sadface. :c

Aw man, I felt the same way when I sided with the Templars. My first playthrough was siding with mages, and the second one... the Templars. Both were mages, though the first was a male. It was so hard the second playthrough, though! I was merciful to mages but agreed with templars, in a way. And then at the end... only thing I liked was when Cullen knelt. I squeed because it was so chivalrous and he was handsome. *coughs* Anyway... XD

I need to kick my behind into gear and write this fic. It won't write itself >__o

Edit: ...I find the idea of him being a soldier previously strangely appealing. XD But then again, the other way as a Chantry-raised orphan works so well too. TwT I wonder what it is~ *sigh*

Modifié par Vaeya, 08 août 2011 - 12:14 .

[R2s Muse]

Since we come back to the few lines Cullen has to explain himself so frequently, and I have a lousy memory these days, I wrote down some of the ones from Act 1. It's for the purpose of "stuffy scholar's debate," to use Cullen's term from the most astonishing (to me) response below.

My Hawke was a diplomatic mage, but I did Cullen's quest (Enemies Among Us) about as early as I could do it in this PT.

=======================================================================================
Cullen's What's My Line -- Part I

Talking to Cullen in order to complete the quest Enemies Among Us; so, after killing Wilmod and after dealing with Tarohne. The following Hawke lines are for a diplomatic Hawke.

HAWKE: “I’ve got good news and I’ve got bad news."
Cullen:"What? What is it?"
HAWKE: "The good news is Keran’s safe. The bad news is half your recruits  may be  possessed by demons.”
Cullen: “Sweet blood of Andraste!”
Macha: demons…? Etc
Keran: It was horrible, mages grrr etc. “They won’t stop until they destroy the Templars and the Chantry forever.”

HAWKE’S CHOICES:

1. HAWKE: It’s the templars' fault : “Mages have been systematically abused by the templars for a thousand years”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “How can you say that after what you’ve seen? Mages cannot be treated like people. They’re not like you and me. "
Macha: “Surely that’s a little harsh.”
Cullen: “They are weapons. They have the power to light a city on fire in a fit of pique.

HAWKE’S RESPONSE CHOICES:

1.1. HAWKE: There has to be a better way: “I admit, that does reduce their bargaining position. But there must be some middle ground.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “Perhaps you’re right. Perhaps the mages need better education as to why the Chantry functions as it does. Perhaps they would not go against the will of Andraste herself. I will look into it.”
Cullen proceeds to strip Keran’s commission – you can say yay or nay.

1.2. HAWKE: You’re wrong: “Mages are humans … and elves...  just like the rest of us”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “Many might go their whole lives thinking that. If even one in ten falls to the lure of blood magic, they could destroy this world.”
Cullen proceeds to strip Keran’s commission – you can say yay or nay.   

1.3. HAWKE: You’re right: “The templars have good reason to be vigilant.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen proceeds to strip Keran’s commission – you can say yay or nay.


2. HAWKE: Hey, I’m a mage (obviously for mage Hawke, only): “Not all mages are like that.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “True. Not every mage gives in to temptation, but none are ever free of it. At any time any mage could become a monster, from the lowest apprentice to the most seasoned enchanters. Mages cannot be treated like people. They’re not like you and me.”
Macha: “Surely that’s a little harsh.”
Cullen: “They are weapons. They have the power to light a city on fire in a fit of pique.

HAWKE’S RESPONSE CHOICES:

Same as for #1.


3. HAWKE: You’re right: “The templars have good reason to be vigilant.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen proceeds to strip Keran’s commission – you can say yay or nay.


4. HAWKE: Whatever; It’s done: “The situation is dealt with. Who is right and wrong is academic.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “Wrong! This is no stuffy scholar’s debate. This is the central fact of the world that Andraste recognized. *sigh* But I will not preach. Thank you for your service.” (the last said in a rather disapproving voice, like he’s not really that thankful…)
Cullen proceeds to strip Keran’s commission – you can say yay or nay.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 08 août 2011 - 01:15 .

[R2s Muse]

Cullen's What's My Line -- Part II

Returning to talk to Cullen the first time after completing Enemies Among Us. The following Hawke lines are for a diplomatic Hawke .

Cullen: I have told the Knight-Commander of your service.

[IF KERAN STAYED WITH TEMPLARS]
Cullen: She commends your quick thinking and has agreed to keep the lad Keran around for observation

[IF KERAN GOT KICKED OUT]
Cullen: She commends your understanding of the threat Keran posed.


HAWKE’S INVESTIGATE OPTIONS:

1. HAWKE: Tell me about Meredith: “I’ve heard a lot about the Knight-Commander. What’s she really like?”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “She is not an easy taskmaster but it is not an easy task. I would not have liked her when I was younger. I thought mages deserved a softer touch.  But Meredith is never fooled by a sweet face. She always sees the demon behind it.”


2. HAWKE: Tell me about yourself: “You sound Fereldan. How did you end up here?”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “I was in the Circle Tower in Ferelden when Uldred summoned his demons. I was held in a cage for… I cannot even say. Weeks? Months? It was one unending nightmare. I watched… what those mages did, what they became. I would gladly give my *life* to avoid seeing that again.”


3. HAWKE: Do you like being a templar?: “What’s it like being in the Order. Do you feel like you’re… accomplishing anything?”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “The templars are not a good choice for anyone who requires a strong sense of achievement. It is a losing battle. Every day new mages are born in Thedas. Every day, those born a dozen years ago come into their power. The best we can do is contain the threat… and recruit more to fill our own ranks when they’re emptied.”


HAWKE’S (RIGHT-SIDE) CHOICES:

1. HAWKE: I support the templars: “Well, once someone admits to consorting with demons it’s a little easier to take sides."

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “That’s a surprisingly unpopular viewpoint.”
Cullen: “It used to be that templars were welcomed wherever they went—for defending people from dark magics. Now the townsfolk are as likely to slam their doors as offer us a bed. The image of the poor, chained apprentice is a powerful one. And one the mages are more than willing to exploit.” (nice cutscene pans over to the righteous magisters(?) and cowering slave statues dotting the Gallows’ courtyard)

2. HAWKE: She said that? (only if you got Keran kicked out): “That’s more gracious than I’d expect, according to all the rumors.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “Well, those weren’t her precise words, that’s true. But they still deserve to be said.”
Cullen: “It used to be that templars were welcomed wherever they went… (same as above)



3. HAWKE: The Order needs to change. “You have to admit, the templars have brought some of this hatred on themselves.”

RESPONSE:

Cullen: “That is the popular school of thought, no?”
Cullen: “It used to be that templars were welcomed wherever they went… (same as above)

Modifié par R2s Muse, 08 août 2011 - 01:35 .

[Bekkael]

Awww, c'mon Gala. You're the honorary Knight-Commander of this board! Just take your awesome lyrium sword and beat or voodoo some answers out of the writers. Just kidding! :innocent: I can try to do it if you don't feel comfortable... (And if someone will tell me who to contact and how. I'm clueless.)

R2, I went through every bit of those dialogues with Cullen through the whole game too, with several different personalities of Hawke.  Mostly for story writing purposes, but also just because I wanted to hear him talk as much as possible. The Voice! <3 Thanks for taking the time to post all of it, you rock!

Now I've just had the most awful thought. What if there is more Cullen in DA3? What if he even becomes a companion....AND THEY CHANGE HIS VOICE ACTOR! I think I may die if he gets "Anderized".

[R2s Muse]

Bekkael wrote...

Awww, c'mon Gala. You're the honorary Knight-Commander of this board! Just take your awesome lyrium sword and beat or voodoo some answers out of the writers.

Heh, this!

R2, I went through every bit of those dialogues with Cullen through the whole game too, with several different personalities of Hawke.  Mostly for story writing purposes, but also just because I wanted to hear him talk as much as possible. The Voice! <3 Thanks for taking the time to post all of it, you rock!

Yeah, I'll bet most of us did that... it just was driving me crazy that I kept forgetting the details. So, eh, there it is, for discussion and/or fanfic purposes.

Now I've just had the most awful thought. What if there is more Cullen in DA3? What if he even becomes a companion....AND THEY CHANGE HIS VOICE ACTOR! I think I may die if he gets "Anderized".

Ugh, I know. Sadness.

Also, in case y'all haven't seen it, apparently Mike Laidlaw actually confirmed that DA3 won't be "about" the Warden or Hawke, i.e. your character will be someone altogether new again. So, if Cullen becomes a LI, I guess it won't be with Hawke. Not that I'd really care...

Modifié par R2s Muse, 08 août 2011 - 03:41 .

[Illusionary Ennui]

 @Bekkael - *twitches* Oh, Maker, I hope not... that just wouldn't be fair.
And... all hail Knight-Commander Gala! 

[Vaeya]

@Bekkael-I think I would die and/or cry myself to death if they changed his voice. TwT No, just no.... D:

@R2- Oh, I hadn't seen that yet! Thank you! I'm somewhat sad that Hawke won't be returning... I've grown rather attached to my Hawke more so than my Warden XD But then again, a new character is just as nice. I will keep my fingers crossed that Cullen is an LI. He has to be..! XD

Hahaha! XD Gala has just been promoted, and well deserved! Hail Knight-Commander Gala!

[Bekkael]

R2s Muse wrote...
Ugh, I know. Sadness.

Also, in case y'all haven't seen it, apparently Mike Laidlaw actually confirmed that DA3 won't be "about" the Warden or Hawke, i.e. your character will be someone altogether new again. So, if Cullen becomes a LI, I guess it won't be with Hawke. Not that I'd really care...

Oh, ho! I have no problem with a new PC. If Cullen were to be made available and glompable, I will have NO complaints. Hawke is awesome and everything, but, well... It's Cullen! Thanks for linking that.

Illusionary Ennui wrote...
@Bekkael - *twitches* Oh, Maker, I hope not... that just wouldn't be fair.

It was just a rare moment of self-flagellation .  I'm past it now (and hopefully I'll never really be stupid enough to deep-six something that probably represents hundreds of hours of my life).

It's Monday tomorrow and I have lots of work to do. *sigh* Weekends need to last at least twice as long, for the good of all.

EDIT: Vaeya, I know! Without Greg Ellis voicing Cullen, his character just wouldn't be the same for me. Let's just hope that never happens.

Modifié par Bekkael, 08 août 2011 - 04:18 .

[Galagraphia]

Haha, you are awesome! Thank you, I swear not to point huge lyrium swords at you

And I wrote to Jennifer Hepler. Of course I forgot half of the things I really wanted to ask, but I sent her a link to our thread, and I hope she will take a look at least.

[Bekkael]

Galagraphia wrote...

Haha, you are awesome! Thank you, I swear not to point huge lyrium swords at you

And I wrote to Jennifer Hepler. Of course I forgot half of the things I really wanted to ask, but I sent her a link to our thread, and I hope she will take a look at least.

The possibility of an answer- yay!!! All of us honorary templars bow to you for doing that. Cullen bows to you too!



Heck, even Gerard Butler bows to you.

[Avilia]

@Gala - well done and congratulations on your promotion to KC ;-) *dips a deep bow of respect*

I must confess to harbouring a bit of a crush on Greg Ellis' VO work. A big part of the reason I enjoyed Original!Anders so much was due to his VA. (No-one says, "Hmm" with quite so much playful suggestiveness imho).

So glad he was able to voice Cullen for DA2 and hope if Cullen is back for later instalments we hear those dulcet tones again (with that slight northern accent ;-) ). I'm afraid if they 'pull an Anders' on us, there may be wailing and gnashing of teeth from me.

Okay there's my embarassing confession for today.

Hopefully we'll hear from Jennifer Hepler with some nice juicy info on Cullen.

[Vaeya]

*squee* XD I hope Jennifer Hepler gets back to you~ Oh, Maker, I'd be happy with even a little suggestion of what his background was~! Thank you for writing her, Knight Commander! ;D

@Avilia- Hehe, I think we all have such confessions.. Or at least, I can say that I am in full agreement with you there. <3

Edit: Slightly off topic, sorry about this. XD But in regards to what mike said in that thread with there being a new protagonist, anybody know if it will be silent or voiced? XD I'm quite curious...
Which did you guys like better?

Modifié par Vaeya, 08 août 2011 - 05:24 .

[Galagraphia]

I agree about The Voice. One of the best moments in the 2nd act is when you come to the Gallows, and Cullen greets you with his "Maker guide you, Hawke." I wonder why is he so friendly? He seems genuinely happy about Hawke's success. Just because they both came from Ferelden? Or because Hawke's from Amell family? Or just because Cullen is just a very nice person?

[Vaeya]

@Gala-I would like to think it's a combination of all of those factors! :3 He seems a gentleman and chivalrous, so I think that has to do with his happiness of Hawke's success. Plus, a Fereldan rising up the ranks like that... something that does all Fereldans proud

[Avilia]

@vaeya Its heresy I know, but I prefer voiced. The blank faced silence of the warden was something I didn't like in Origins. I think I'm the minority though, as I'm not very good at rp'ing.

[Bekkael]

I'll join the heresy then. Having a silent PC has bugged me since Jade Empire. The other characters in the game aren't mute, so I don't see why my character has to be either. It doesn't affect my imagination and RPing enjoyment, at all.

I guess that's not the popular opinion though, eh? *shrug* To each his own.

EDIT: I think Cullen is just that nice. He's the kind of fellow a gal would want to take home to mother. Provided Mother hasn't been savaged by evil blood mage psychos. *wibbles*

Modifié par Bekkael, 08 août 2011 - 06:01 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

It's funny, I am so in favor of voice when it comes to Shepard (I couldn't imagine a silent Femshep), but I preferred the Warden to Hawke in a lot of ways. I think it may be because I didn't identify as much with Hawke's voice... it's almost like her voice was too perfect, if that makes sense. Pretty, lilting, posh, luxurious, it sounded like someone else's voice to me, not mine. Despite the fact that Shepard sounds nothing like me, I can hear her voice in my head, it sounds like a version of me. Hawke was someone else.

As for Cullen's friendly greetings, I imagine that he's pretty lonely, in general. The other Templars seem like they're mostly crazy authoritarian tough-guy types, and Cullen wouldn't fit in with them. The ones who have sympathy seem to tend toward rebellion like Thrask, and they're not likely to associate with someone as dedicated as Cullen, either. There's also the whole "loneliness of command" thing, where you're not really allowed to be friends with the rank and file, and I can't exactly picture Cullen having a pleasant dinner in the officer's mess with Meredith. I get the feeling that he actually feels some level of friendship with our Champion, who he can talk to like a person.

My canon Hawke has some Templar training, similar to Alistair: in my mind, she started training in Lothering, and escaped when the town burned, before she had taken her vows. While she was in the order, she saw that some Templars are just as trapped as mages, especially those who are given to the Chantry at a young age. That's part of why she's so opposed to the current circle/templar system... nobody's happy there, except for the sadists like Alrik. Anyone who is decent pretty routinely has to push down their sense of empathy and compassion in order to bow to duty. In my mind, she's in this as much to save people like Cullen as she is to save people like Anders.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 08 août 2011 - 06:26 .

[R2s Muse]

I guess I prefer the voiced PC, although I liked having a *bit* more control over what I was saying in DA:O (altho I guess that's really about the dialogue wheel). I liked hearing Hawke's emotional inflections along with everyone else's. Hawke seems much more ... vibrant and real to me than the Warden. The difference is thrown into stark relief for me now, watching gameplay videos of DA:O and the Warden seems so ... lifeless. Here Alistair is joking his blessed little heart out, and I can't even manage an appreciative smile? (And plus I can't tell what's going on, because typically the text of the Warden's response is too small to read in these. LOL)  But, I also agree that Hawke feels a little too... cool for me sometimes, eventho the actress does a good job (IMO) of being approachable, clever and funny all at the same time. Anyhoo, I could swear I saw a dev say somewhere that voiced PCs aren't going anywhere... but don't really recall where/who.

Coming back to Cullen, I don't know that I like to think of him being nice to me just because he doesn't have any other friends...  LOL That could be part of it, that Hawke is an outsider so he can be more cordial with her. But, I always felt that he had a true affection and respect for her. With his lines like, "Ah, the new scion of the Amell family" and her "I just wanted to see how an old friend was doing in these difficult times" and the like, they always seemed like "old friends" even if they didn't go hang out at the Hanged Man every night. I did wonder when they hadn't talked for a whole freakin' THREE years at one or two points, but then that's a different problem...

[Galagraphia]

 I have another theory about Cullen being friendly: he's trying to charm Hawke into his templar camp. It totally worked with me, I confess. I still side with mages in the end, because I can't let Meredith kill all mages just because one Anders, who's not even a part of the Circle anymore, did what he did. But I understand the templars' position. They are not as bad as Anders likes us to think, they just do their jobs. Not all of them are sadists, some are nice people like Thrask, or Cullen, or Alistair, some have families, like Keran. Some may seem strict, like Greagoir, but it's understandable: their decisions affect too many lives. I actually feel bad when I kill them And I always want to hug Samson. I click on him every time I see him and listen what he says. It makes me sad, because I know it could be Cullen if Uldred's rebellion didn't happen.

Also, for The Voice fans, more singing Cullen. I don't know this musical, but the lyrics fit the mage-templar romance so well.

[Sialater]

No one says there's no socialization there, R2s Muse. We just don't get to see it. After all, this is Varric telling the story and if Hawke asked him not to mention the Knight Captain's social life...

[R2s Muse]

Sialater wrote...

No one says there's no socialization there, R2s Muse. We just don't get to see it. After all, this is Varric telling the story and if Hawke asked him not to mention the Knight Captain's social life...

Heh heh, good point! Good ole unreliable narrator, Varric! Do I hear a Cullen's social life prompt coming on...?

[Bekkael]

Gala, *sigh* Such a gorgeous Voice. Now I'm imagining Cullen serenading Hawke, as well as drawing her portrait. Artistic!Cullen for the win!

I got the impression from the game, that Cullen and Hawke are genuinely friends. Maybe they don't constantly hang out together, but they certainly seemed to have some depth of history over the years that those tiny conversations with him afforded a glimpse of.

R2, GAH! Don't tempt me with more prompts, woman. Although, you could always write about it, if you're inspired. The only writing I'm supposed to be doing today is my 2nd son's middle school course descriptions, so I can get him registered at the local high school. Doesn't that sound like fun?! 

Modifié par Bekkael, 08 août 2011 - 05:08 .

[Galagraphia]

Jennifer Hepler wrote me back!  

I can't answer these, because I'm on maternity leave right now, so I'm not up on what is currently being decided about the character. But rest assured, you will learn what happens to him post-Meredith.

Maybe we will hear more about Cullen if the new DLC about Sebastian tells what happened after the Chantry was destroyed? Or the anime about Cassandra will reveal it? Or the third book? 

I'm so excited now. Damn you, Dragon Age, you are like my personal brand of lyrium! *dies*

[Bekkael]

Galagraphia wrote...

Jennifer Hepler wrote me back!  

I can't answer these, because I'm on maternity leave right now, so I'm not up on what is currently being decided about the character. But rest assured, you will learn what happens to him post-Meredith.

Maybe we will hear more about Cullen if the new DLC about Sebastian tells what happened after the Chantry was destroyed? Or the anime about Cassandra will reveal it? Or the third book? 

I'm so excited now. Damn you, Dragon Age, you are like my personal brand of lyrium! *dies*

That's so exciting!!! More Cullen! Of some variety, anyway.

Awwww, and congratulations to Ms. Hepler and her new bundle of joy.