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[Bekkael]

Yankee23 wrote...
I'm from Long Island.

I love Long Island Iced Teas!  Haven't been to NYC since I was fifteen though. That was, uh, a long time ago. I don't live anywhere even remotely cool.

It's really neat that these are international boards. <3 Dragon Age brings all countries and creeds together. I envy you folks overseas because you have lovely accents. American accents bite, and I don't find them even remotely sexy. Notice how few Americans they use as voice actors in DA games?

EDIT for top. I've run out of Cullen pics, so here's one of Stellasmooth's again. Cullen is trying to see things from a mages point of view by swapping with Anders...

Modifié par Bekkael, 11 août 2011 - 05:28 .

[Vaeya]

@Bekkael- Oh, I am so agreed with you! XD American accents are so... dull, nothing to 'em. But take English accents for instance, or Scottish, Irish or Australian. They're so lovely! XD

Heh, Cullen, I think you should stick with Templar armor... But even so, he pulls that off better than Anders. XD

[john-in-france]

Zipping this conversation for R2sMuse from the SSG.



Paraphrased: Do Templar take vows of chastity?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Templars go through a rigorous process of recruitment and indoctrination, in monastic refuges segregated from everyday society. While the majority of their members are male, some female templars do exist, having chosen to serve the Maker as a defender of the faith rather than a spiritual guide for the community. Templars are discouraged from marrying or raising children since it is impractical to live apart from ones' dependents. However, such unions are occasionally permitted, provided that the templar's spouse has his or her own means of support, for example, owning land or a title.[1] A templar marrying another templar or a mage within the same Circle would be considered fraternization within the ranks and would seldom receive permission.

Codex. Also referenced under Chantry brothers and sisters. The Seekers also take holy orders so to speak and answer directly to the Divine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, Since coffee this morning, I can think clearly again, double expresso does that.

I think what we have is some cross over from DAO and DA2. Leading to confusion everywhere.

Where it states monastic refuges, this to me suggests at least lay Brothers/Sisters in the Chantry. The Chantry codex refers to some Brothers being Templar and others being scholars.

A quick run down of the Chantry:
The Divine (female High Priest - celibate)
Grand Clerics (Regional representatives of the Divine, female, - celibate)
Revered Mothers (Priest in charge of local church, female - celibate)
Mothers (Priests, female - celibate)
Sisters and Brothers (Monastic, male and female, vows of chastity according to Leliana DAO, she also states that a vow of chastity does not stop said Brother/Sister from laying with a person that they love)
Lay Sisters and Brothers (male and female, no vows regarding sexuality)

Ser Wesley commends Bethanys/Carvers soul to the Maker, which suggests that he is indeed a lay brother or more.

Alistair in DAO talks about celibacy being a part of the Templar discipline...then joyously goes on to talk about Lamp posts

Historical Templar were also split into lay brothers and full brothers, it being a monastic order. Lay brothers being the canon fodder, and full brothers being the officers/knights.

Personally, I'd say go with your own head canon on this one.

Judy.

PS I've got to love a man with the balls to stand up to Meredith...twice in the Templar ending. Nice one Cullen!

[Bekkael]

Galagraphia wrote...
Also, for The Voice fans, more singing Cullen. I don't know this musical, but the lyrics fit the mage-templar romance so well.

My endless thanks for linking that song, Gala. I have just listened to it 9,726 times, at least, to catch the  lyrics. You are so right about it applying perfectly to a mage/templar romance. Especially the "Cullen meets Hawke in the Fade where she saves him from a demon before he meets her in person" story I'm writing at the moment.  Squee! Here are the relevant lyrics I managed to decipher that Greg Ellis sings:

Bailing out, prisoner before.
I knew the score among the dying and the dead.

To see your face, so unexpected.
You are all I see, I love you now and love is always.

How could you be my enemy?

You are all my care and when I sleep, you’re everywhere.
It’s only you; only you I see.

Thanks for the inspiration, love! <3
 

[Galagraphia]

@Bekkael thanks to Greg Ellis for being so awesome!

Well, I studied British English, but I almost never talked in English, so I have no idea which accent I have. The only time I used it was when I needed to talk to a man from Italy, and he could only understand me when I was faking his heavy italian accent (which was a lot of fun, but I think it stuck with me).

@john-in-france thanks for the info!

Well, I don't think templars take vows of chastity, because:
1) David Gaider said they don't.
2) Templars love the Blooming Rose! And prefer dwarves. O_o And it looks like the only problem Cullen has with this place is that they distract the recruits from their training. (and maybe Serendipity hurt his feelings, or maybe he\\she was trying to serve Cullen for free and traumatized our poor templar)))

[Avilia]

There was a young Templar named Cullen
Who at first glance might seem oh so sullen
but on better acquaint
and a nice dose of taint
you will find that he isn't a dull'un



And yes that's what I do on the bus, compose extremely bad limericks.

I'm sneaking in a DA:O piccy to illustrate my masterpiece.

[Galagraphia]

@Avilia, I approve of all Cullen poetry In all its forms!
And I like your illustration

[R2s Muse]

Hey JIF, thanks for finding me where, of course, I live - on the Cullen forums! LOL

Thanks for the follow up. Interesting... I hadn't caught that part in the DA2 Chantry Hierarchy codex about initiates, who take vows, becoming templars. D'oh!

Brothers and sisters form the rank and file of the Chantry and consist of three main groups: affirmed, initiates, and clerics. ...

Only those folk who take vows become initiates. These are men and women
in training, whether in academic knowledge or the martial skills of a
warrior. All initiates receive an academic education, although only
those who seek to become templars learn how to fight in addition.

Curious! I wonder if the vows are just different, then. Or, if not all templars were initiates? Since, I tend to believe any word that falls from David Gaider's lips and he says straight out:

Templars do not take vows of chastity.

Chantry priests are
considered "married" to the Maker-- though it's not an actual marriage,
just a spiritual one-- and thus are indeed celibate.

So, this suggests to me that a "chantry priest" and a templar take different vows, where  "chantry priest" in this context presumably is an initiate without the martial training.

We hear Cullen et al, talk about having taken vows, but I don't think I've heard much about the nature of them. I had the impression that templars were just selected for being devout instead of them really being brothers/sisters of the faith. Very very interesting!

My suspicion is this is one of those things that changed when DA2 came out, something like:

"So, templars are just priests with swords."
"Hey I've got this cool idea -- new character Aveline is... wait for it... married to a templar."
"But templars don't have sex... priests, dude!"
"Eh, templars are ... different... yeah, sometimes they can just get married like normal people. There you go, problem solved. Plus, this will make all those Cullen fans really happy..."



EDIT: Love all the Cullen poetry! MOAR!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 11 août 2011 - 10:42 .

[Avilia]

R2s Muse wrote...

[snipped for brevity only]

My suspicion is this is one of those things that changed when DA2 came out, something like:

"So, templars are just priests with swords."
"Hey I've got this cool idea -- new character Aveline is... wait for it... married to a templar."
"But templars don't have sex... priests, dude!"
"Eh, templars are ... different... yeah, sometimes they can just get married like normal people. There you go, problem solved. Plus, this will make all those Cullen fans really happy..."



EDIT: Love all the Cullen poetry! MOAR!

I tend to agree and must admit I'd have preferred for Templars to be celibate.  I also liked the feeling of the Templars being only male and the Priests being only female.  It gave the whole thing a nice edge I liked.
Then we got the lovely Rylock in Awakenings.  Eh.  So much for what I like 

True it is though, your last line, perhaps this makes up for my other disappointments (only time will tell on that one).



Misty blue surrounds me
Sounds of battle near
Blood sings

Cullen haiku 

Modifié par Avilia, 11 août 2011 - 11:06 .

[john-in-france]

R2s Muse wrote...

My suspicion is this is one of those things that changed when DA2 came out, something like:

"So, templars are just priests with swords."
"Hey I've got this cool idea -- new character Aveline is... wait for it... married to a templar."
"But templars don't have sex... priests, dude!"
"Eh, templars are ... different... yeah, sometimes they can just get married like normal people. There you go, problem solved. Plus, this will make all those Cullen fans really happy..."

I quite admire the type of man who holds out for love and romance, and that is what a vow of chastity is about. Not of course to be confused with Celibacy...the dreaded no sex/romance at all...death sentence for a romanceable character.

Priests are not male in the DA universe due to Maferath betraying Andraste, so there should not be a celibacy vow for Templars even if they are Brothers, just the Chastity one. We all know that argument from SSG...heheheee.

I know the Gaider vs codex is annoying in the extreme, but as you rightly say, played with for the game audience. Maybe if they actually listen to us Cullen will become romanceable, and the Prince will have a happy ending as well.

So as far as fiction goes, I think you can swing it either way.

Back to Bakkael's fiction now...are there two fanfiction nets? I've found two with very different looks.

Cullen possibly the only sane Templar in the Kirkwall Officer Corps....

[RagingCyclone]

Getting in late here, but I always equated the Templars as a similar organization to the Secret Service. I didn't get the impression they took vows of celibacy, but refrained from such relationships due to the complexity of their role in society. IE hard to maintain a relationship or raise a family when you are basically on duty 24/7. They are mostly seen guarding mages or hunting apostates, but also perform investigations for the Chantry. Not only do we see this in DA2, but also in Origins, specifically the blind one in Denerim whose name escapes me at the moment.

[Dhiro]

As Galagraphia said, David Gaider stated that Templars do not make a vote of castity. It's just that many (at least, not the ones in Kirkwall...) prefer to have they minds in their task instead of worrying about wives (or husbands) and children.

[Sialater]

Galagraphia wrote...

I imagine a different scene.

Cullen looks at Hawke, Hawke looks at Cullen, Cullen nods and steps backwards. Hawke turns around and moves towards the gates. Near the gates the party stops, Hawke scratches her head and shouts to the templars: "Can somebody open the gates for us? Hello? Pretty please?"
Cullen facepalms and orders the Girly Templar to do as the Champion said.
Girly Templar runs across the Gallows in her girly way, stumbles over her skirt and falls with epic metal bang. Aveline facepalms and just lifts the door with one hand, letting everyone out. On the way to the boat Varric comforts Hawke that he will make up something more heroic.

You know... I'll bet that's what happened.

[R2s Muse]

Sialater wrote...

Galagraphia wrote...

I imagine a different scene.

Cullen looks at Hawke, Hawke looks at Cullen, Cullen nods and steps backwards. Hawke turns around and moves towards the gates. Near the gates the party stops, Hawke scratches her head and shouts to the templars: "Can somebody open the gates for us? Hello? Pretty please?"
Cullen facepalms and orders the Girly Templar to do as the Champion said.
Girly Templar runs across the Gallows in her girly way, stumbles over her skirt and falls with epic metal bang. Aveline facepalms and just lifts the door with one hand, letting everyone out. On the way to the boat Varric comforts Hawke that he will make up something more heroic.

You know... I'll bet that's what happened.

I second this. Hilarious! I love how "Girly Templar" becomes the red-headed stepchild of the templar world. LOL

[Galagraphia]

 Heee, I was a bit traumatized by my attempt to read Elthina thread and now I'm tempted to write another bad rap in addition to my old bad templar rap.

Instead - an old templar song (and another parody, because I'm not very creative):

I am a young templar, my story is sad,
Though once I was a carefree and a brave templar lad.
I guarded a lassie by night and by day,
Oh but now she has left me, and sailed far away.


Oh if I was a Warden, who senses the Blight,
I’d follow my sweetheart to fight at her side
I’d shield her from arrows, from spears and from swords,
And I’d tell her my feelings without saying a word.


To Greenfell they sent me, then to Kirkwall I went;
I tried to forget her, I tried to repent.
But after the night falls, when I close my eyes,
I still see my sweet mage girl under Fereldan sky.


Oh if I was a Warden, who senses the Blight,
I’d follow my sweetheart to fight at her side
I’d shield her from arrows, from spears and from swords,
And I’d tell her my feelings without saying a word.


The commanders, they chide me, they could not agree
Saying that me and my false love, married should never be
Oh let them deprive me, or let them do what they will
While there's breath in my body
She's the one I love still


Oh if I was a Warden, who senses the Blight,
I’d follow my sweetheart to fight at her side
I’d shield her from arrows, from spears and from swords,
And I’d tell her my feelings without saying a word.

Modifié par Galagraphia, 11 août 2011 - 06:24 .

[Bekkael]

Galagraphia wrote...

 Heee, I was a bit traumatized by my attempt to read Elthina thread and now I'm tempted to write another bad rap in addition to my old bad templar rap.

Instead - an old templar song (and another parody, because I'm not very creative):
*snip awesome lyrics*

You do realize you having me envisioning Cullen wearing a backwards baseball cap, and thick gold chains around his neck now, right? DJ Cullen The Chaste? Has someone actually drawn Rapper Cullen? Because if not, that should be remedied! :innocent:

john-in-france wrote...
Back to Bakkael's fiction now...are there two fanfiction nets? I've found two with very different looks.

Are you talking about the links in my signature? If so, one leads to my FanFiction.net account with all my stories, and the other is a direct link to my main Cullen/Marian, work-in-progress story, called Twisted (which I am off to work on as soon as I post this). I also do a good bit of anonymous writing featuring either Anders or Cullen, paired with F!Hawke for the Dragon Age Kink Meme on LiveJournal.  Or, I also have a LJ account where I dump my partial stories, here. 
I signed up at DeviantArt too just so I could stalk Gala's amazing art! :whistle:I highly recommend it.

Avilia wrote...
Then we got the lovely Rylock in Awakenings.  Eh.  So much for what I like 

I stared, utterly mystified by the female templar the first time I played Awakening. Then I yelled at the screen that templars are supposed to be male. LOL, but now I forgive all if we get access to  romanceable Cullen in future.
Your poetry is wonderful! I adore poetry and have no gift for writing it. I bow to your talent, please keep it coming.

[Bekkael]

Just for laughs because I stumbled on this. Cullen's possible  theme song right after the Uldred incident? (It's Greg Ellis singing)

[Avilia]

 @Bekkael glad it wasn't just me who was puzzled.  I thought I'd missed something obvious in Origins when she turned up. 

@Gala Yo *gang sign*  Word..  If I had mad photoshop skilz I'd make a piccy of Cullen with a backwards cap on.  That song is brilliant work

This whole in game experience vs what writers tell us is frustrating sometimes.  I'm not specifically meaning about Templars but generally.  I find I often get an impression of how something is/what someone is like only to have a writer come out and say "oh no!  You didn't see this in game but...".  Or even worse, a forumite says, "In the books it says..."

hehe - my whine for the day.

Edit - because I can't type and think at the same time..apparently

Modifié par Avilia, 11 août 2011 - 09:21 .

[Avilia]

Because once its said I must try it :



Apologies for both my lack of skill and if I've offended anyone's cultural sensitivities.

Modifié par Avilia, 11 août 2011 - 09:51 .

[miraclemight]

Since you people obviously know a lot about Cullen, can one of you tell me why he still thinks Meredith should "arrest" the Champion, even if she isn't a mage and sides with the Templars? Is it a bug, or have I missed something?

I only sided once with the Templars in my final playthrough, just for science, and the "Knight-Commander, I though we intended to arrest the Champion" was a bit of a WTH moment after the whole "Listen to the Champion and spare these mages" business.

[Avilia]

I assumed it was what he'd managed to talk her down to. I imagine them arguing about it and arrest being the compromise he thought they'd reached. Hence the surprised way he says that line (its been ages since I've finished Act 3 so that's from memory).

Perhaps he thought that once things had calmed down Meredith would be more reasonable. Of course she's nuts so, no, that wouldn't have happened.

Its no small thing to go against the orders of your commander. Particularly when you've served them for 10 years or so and are as duty driven as Cullen.

I have scoot off to work but I've been thinking about what you asked and wanted to put my thoughts down! If someone better informed comes along to correct me that'll be good

[R2s Muse]

@miraclemight - I agree with Avilia. That's how I always interpret the "I thought we were going to arrest" him/her line, that Meredith had tagged Hawke as a menace (and personal threat to her little kingdom) early on - mage or no. She doesn't mind using Hawke for her own purposes (like killing all the mages in a pro-templar PT), but once that purpose is done she'd prefer to just kill her and call her a random casualty.

Cullen has been trying his best to follow orders and follow his conscience, and has gotten Meredith to agree in advance to "arrest only" like Avilia describes. But, then Meredith goes back on their "arrest" agreement, which, to my mind, is the straw that broke the camel's back for him, resulting in "this is not what the Order stands for" etcetc

Thus,I see the last scene as insubordination #2 in a progression from insubordination #1, which was the "listen to the champion" scene with the mages. Any hoo... that's my reading of it! Not sure if that helps.

small edit for clarity.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 12 août 2011 - 01:02 .

[R2s Muse]

OMG, Avilia - that is HILarious. It reminds me a bit of this from StellaSmooth:


So impressed with Greg Ellis singing voice.. but might be scared if I actually heard him rapping. Not sure I realized he had a full-on musical theatre background, though. Wowza.

[Galagraphia]

miraclemight wrote...

Since you people obviously know a lot about Cullen, can one of you tell me why he still thinks Meredith should "arrest" the Champion, even if she isn't a mage and sides with the Templars? Is it a bug, or have I missed something?

I only sided once with the Templars in my final playthrough, just for science, and the "Knight-Commander, I though we intended to arrest the Champion" was a bit of a WTH moment after the whole "Listen to the Champion and spare these mages" business.

Personally I think it's a glitch. Because when Hawke is not a mage and was pro-templar, then it makes almost no sense.
But since I try to justify Dragin Age glitches since 2009, here's what I have to say.

Meredith, as I said earlier in this thread, is very persuasive. So I imagine while Hawke was looting Orsino's corpse, she gathered her templars in the courtyard and explained, that Hawke had a connection with Anders and much be taken into custody for interrogation. Then somebody like Cullen said: "But it's the Champion! We can't just arrest him/her! He/she is a hero and blah-blah-blah!!" And Meredith: "It's only for an investigation purposes, is the Champion is innocent, we will let him/her go after everything is over."  Then, if Hawke was trying to warn Cullen about Anders, Cullen could add: "The Champion had nothing to do with that mage, he/she was trying to stop him!" Meredith: "Then why do you worry, knight-captain? The inquest will prove his/her innocence and he/she will go home. If the Champion is guilty however, should we take or chances and let this crime go unpunished? Blah-blah-blah [a lot of pro-templar rhetoric about duty and ect.]" Templars nod, Cullen says that he understands. Then Hawke enters the scene and Meredith says: "Now let's kill Hawke! :O" Cullen, and all other templars, who just heard about the inquest and stuff, they all make  WTF faces, and Cullen asks: "I thought we were going to arrest the Champion?"  and then you know what happens. 

[miraclemight]

Thanks for the explantions everyone.

And Gala, that expression made my day. Although, I probably won''t be able to see Meredith the same way as before ever again.