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[R2s Muse]

@Avilia, I ran across a David Gaider post from the wiki on lyrium recently, which if you haven't seen it might be sorta useful. Apparently, they had intended to implement lyrium addiction in game, that if you officially became addicted then you got diminishing returns from it. I thought that was quite interesting. So that would suggest to me that, yes, you would need larger and larger doses.

Edit for top:

Modifié par R2s Muse, 16 août 2011 - 01:49 .

[Avilia]

I found a save in Dust Town.  Here's all I could get out of Rogek.  He doesn't say much but he does give you the lyrium in a box and refers to it as stone.  That either means its in dust form or he's giving you a box full of vials...gah

You tube again

Pardon the quality but I'm a You tube noob 

Modifié par Avilia, 16 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[Avilia]

 @R2 thanks for the link - I'll scoot over and have a read. 

Oh and thanks for the piccy 

[Avilia]

 More fun with lyrium :

Ermenrick

Denerim templars

I'm getting a not very nice picture of the long term effects of Lyrium.  Not that I had a nice picture before but still...


Oh I just had a thought - that mod that puts Cullen's head on Anders - does it cause a rip in the fabric of space and time 


if Greg Ellis = "Anders" & "Cullen" then
   value = DA:O
else if Greg Ellis = "Cullen"  &  Adam Howden = "Anders" then
   value = DA2
else if Adam Howden = "Cullen"  &  "Anders"  & Greg Ellis = "Cullen"
   value = THE APOCALYPSE
end if

Modifié par Avilia, 16 août 2011 - 07:39 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I am fascinated by drug dependence and withdrawal, both as story points and as a legitimate psychological phenomenon. Anders mentions at some point that there are treatments for Lyrium withdrawal (I think?), I wonder what they would be like. I think it might be very interesting to see a scenario where a Templar needs to wean themselves off of lyrium.

The one templar in that clip says that if you stop taking Lyrium, you aren't a templar anymore, which is understandable, but makes me curious. Alistair manages to templar at least decently without lyrium, which I know is partially gameplay/story segregation, but still, it makes me wonder how much of the lyrium addiction is to improve templar abilities, and how much of it is for control. I mean, it would make sense (if it weren't about control) to have a secondary order of templars who are like Alistair, non-lyrium using, in case of an unexpected lyrium shortage. As things are, if a Dwarven civil war (or something) cut off the supply of lyrium, the order as a whole would be in pretty desperate straits pretty quickly.

Hmm, anyone know any good fics where lyrium addiction is addressed? So far I've pretty much stumbled upon Cullen fics when the writer writes some other character I like, so I've only seen a handful or so.

[Avilia]

Alistair certainly doesn't seem convinced its necessary and it could be argued that the PC doesn't take it to use Templar skills.

I tend to think that Templar sees using Lyrium as part of what defines him as a Templar - whether or not it helps his skills. I'm not sure what they're actually told about using it - only to enhance their skills or also for some religious reason perhaps?

That's a great point - we know so little about it. I think its a bit handwaved but every now and then it crops up. Samson in DA2 for instance is obviously still addicted but managing to function with small doses he can buy on the black market.

If Lyrium has diminishing returns, I wonder if its effects are similar to any real life drugs in any way.

Hmm, more things to hunt up.

[Galagraphia]

 What I think about lyrium (speculations):

1) Somewhere in codex or in the description of the templar spec it was mentioned that lyrium for templars must be prepared in a special way. In Anders' short story Roland drank a lyrium to protect himself from magic. Samson talks about dust, I believe it's lyrium powder, lyrium in its less poisonous form (according to Gaider). I guess templars brew their special templar potion using lyrium powder as a main component.

2) Based on Alistair's words and codex I believe that lyrium doesn't help to smite better or drain mana. Those talents a templar must develop via training. But lyrium is responsible for passive skills, like magic resistance. However, I believe Chantry insists that without lyrium you are not a templar. For control, obviously

3) If you don't take lyrium too often, your magic-lyrium-whatever receptors don't lose their sensitivity to it and you don't need more and more and MORE and can be ok with your regular dose. And dementia won't bother you for a long time (Greagoir, Otto, Emeric). (So be a good little templar and drink your lyrium milk)

4) Raw lyrium will make you bleed your eyes out. Some people are more sensitive to lyrium than others (after your Harrowing in DAO one of the mages mentions that one of them was a mess for about a week after his Harrowing). Tranquils and dwarves are less sensitive to lyrium effects, which probably has something to do with their disconnection from the Fade.

5) It's possible to quit lyrium. Samson did it in act 3. It took him almost 6 years! But we don't know if he tried systematically. Personally I believe that every addiction is treatable if the addict himself wants to quit. And with some potions or healing magic to reduce the withdrawal symptoms it could happen faster and with less suffering.

[miraclemight]

I think Lyrium mostly is there so the Chantry's can control the Order (aka what Alistair says). If a fight is too... magical for noraml warriors to handle it, sure, take a vial. But to consume something poisonous and addictive all the time... That's just suspicious. Maybe the Divine wants the Templar to hear the song again! >>

As for Samson, he didn't really quit the Lyrium. If you tell Cullen to accept him to the Order again and side with the Templar in the end, all Samsom can think of is the Lyrium the Templars are going to take before facing abominations. *sigh* And here I thought I was doing the Order a great service by returning someone who wasn't a drooling zealot.

[Avilia]

@Gala 5. Really? I obviously don't pay enough attention to him. Does he tell you that if you click on him in the courtyard? Or during "best served cold'? Perhaps one can be weaned off - taking less and less of it until you don't need it any more.

Hmm (might use that thought *steals it*)

Edit - MM posted just as I did - so Samson is still addicted?  Poor pet I had hopes for him.

Modifié par Avilia, 16 août 2011 - 10:18 .

[Galagraphia]

@miraclemight, I think Samson is like an old alcoholic. He's finally beaten the addiction, but then they took him back, gave him more dust and... it all started again.

Hm, when you mentioned song, I started thinking about lyrium and the wardens' calling. Can they be related somehow.

Oooh, forgot something about lyrium:

6) Lyrium alters the reality and memorizes the events of the past (Andraste's temple near Haven, Kal'Hirol), it can sort of split one dimension into few (Amgarrak). Lyrium can also send you to Fade.

7) When you eat raw lyrium in the Fade it doesn't hurt (and dwarves can do it too!)

8) According to this thread lytium tastes like a) strawberries, mints, c) Cullen

[R2s Muse]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Hmm, anyone know any good fics where lyrium addiction is addressed? So far I've pretty much stumbled upon Cullen fics when the writer writes some other character I like, so I've only seen a handful or so.

You may have seen this one, but Crisium's What We Become is a Cullen/Amell story that deals with taking poor Cullen out of the Tower and managing his addiction. It becomes a rather poignant plot point, and tends to form my own head canon about templar addiction.

I like Gala's notion that templars need lyrium for some things (magic resist or other... stuff?) but not for others (smiting). That  makes a certain sense to me since I would assume my Hawke warrior or even Alistair would inevitably not be quite as good a templar as the real thing.

edit: (so much action this morniing!) I had figured Samson was still addicted as well. I guess I thought that's what made it so easy for him to slip back in with the templars... addiction intact! Does he actually say at some point that he's kicked the habit?

Modifié par R2s Muse, 16 août 2011 - 10:42 .

[Galagraphia]

@R2, my templar Hawke comsumes smuggled lyrium and she'll go lyrium-crazy one day Sadly, only in my head, because there is no nuca-cola effect in Dragon Age But I based that feature on her templar spec description, where it's stated that lyrium she takes gives her the magic resistance.

[R2s Muse]

Galagraphia wrote...

That makes a certain sense to me since I would assume my Hawke warrior or even Alistair would inevitably not be quite as good a templar as the real thing.

@R2, my templar Hawke comsumes smuggled lyrium and she'll go lyrium-crazy one day Sadly, only in my head, because there is no nuca-cola effect in Dragon Age But I based that feature on her templar spec description, where it's stated that lyrium she takes gives her the magic resistance.

Cool! Yes, and just to clarify, I meant non-lyrium takers as compared to "the real thing" who is an actual, lyrium-laced strawberry/mint/Cullen-flavored templar.

[R2s Muse]

D'oh, okay, I couldn't resist.:whistle:

[Avilia]

Strawberry/mint/lyrium flavoured templars...sort of takes the scary out really ;-)

Okay I've been finding my sig annoying I think you guys have given me an idea for a new one..really convince people I'm nuts.

Edit - The original and the best Templar!

Modifié par Avilia, 16 août 2011 - 11:10 .

[Galagraphia]

@R2, I understand, I meant we can still role-play an addicted Hawke
And now I just must quote this:

"Oooooh, lyrium" © Awakening Anders

Hmm, I want to cut out that line from Awakening and give it to Cullen, because, you know, Greg Ellis And lyrium

edit: 
@Avilia, when I get home, I'll make a crazy and senseless sig. Something like "Addicted to strawberries-in-lyrium and templars-in-chocolate"

Modifié par Galagraphia, 16 août 2011 - 11:14 .

[Avilia]

haha - chocolate dipped templars - yummy!

[R2s Muse]

Galagraphia wrote...
edit: 
@Avilia, when I get home, I'll make a crazy and senseless sig. Something like "Addicted to strawberries-in-lyrium and templars-in-chocolate"

OMG, this notion has just made my day!

[Galagraphia]

And where the hell is my tablet when I have that image in my head?
(I wanted to put it into my bag today, I had a feeling I would need it! )

[R2s Muse]

lmao - avilia, love it!

[Avilia]

 Here you go Gala - a poor effort but it caused me much giggling :

Ooh Lyrium

I'm not sure the capture works for the words but Wilmod makes me laugh...

btw - Anders lied - he does complain about the Chantry during sex 

[Galagraphia]

That was my maximum without anything I could draw with. I'll do a remake one day maybe, in better quality:

[Avilia]

lmao!!! that's fabulous

[Galagraphia]

@Avilia, do you know how much I love you??? XD It's just... OMG! XD I think I broke something

[Avilia]

*brushes hands* my work here is done...