1890 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaeya]

Neminea wrote...

Not where I am from, they didn't execute every german soldier for following orders after the war, the ones who give the orders are to blame.

Agreed!

@Xilizhra- ...In our society, yes.

In the game, not really. Templars are meant to obey orders from their higher ups. Disobedience is not tolerated. And if I was faced with the possibility of being sent to Aeonar or going through lyrium withdrawal... I don't know, following orders is a pretty easy way out, even if it goes against common sense. Templars are prisoners in a way, too. They are inhibited by lyrium as well as the strictness of the Order.

Turning blood mage is a pretty lame excuse to survive as well, in my opinion. It can go both ways.

@Rak72- Indeed. I agree with that. Just because there are a few bad apples does not mean they are all bad.

Modifié par Vaeya, 22 août 2011 - 07:28 .

[Bekkael]

Lots of good debate!

Been sick in bed (again) and unable to keep up, but really glad to see the board so active. Hugs to you all.

EDIT for TOP(ish) Cullen.

Modifié par Bekkael, 22 août 2011 - 08:05 .

[Galagraphia]

 I love being a mage in DA and I think it's great that the Change is comming, but I feel for the templars too. The was an interesting discussion in this thread earlier about the Stanford prison experiment. And it made me think, that maybe it's not the templars' fault that they do what they do? The whole system is so wrong that it corrupts the both sides. That's why I want templars to be separated from the Chantry, Circles changed into schools and universities, no lyrium addictions, no taking children from their parents. I want templars to exist, but only as a police force. I want circles to remain, but only as places of learning, because if your parents are not mages and you are, somebody should teach you how to control your magic and resist the demons. That should be a peaceful solution, imho.

A toast to make it happen:


Edit: Aww, Bekkael, let's ask our Chantry boys to pray for our good health, because I'm ill too. Maker punishes me for drawing inappropriate things with his humble servants   Get well soon!

Modifié par Galagraphia, 22 août 2011 - 08:14 .

[Bekkael]

Am I being punished for writing inapropriate things, then? I wondered what the deal was. The Maker is smackin' us fangirls around.

Hope you feel better too, Gala. <3 

[Xilizhra]

Pfeh.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 août 2011 - 08:29 .

[Xilizhra]

They a have a responsibility to both the mages and the general population to make sure abominations aren't running amuck. I know you have very strong opinions on this, but they are just that - opinions. My opinion is that the Templars serve a vital functon. Abuses should be dealt with, but like you can't condem all mages because some are bloodmage lunatics, you can not condem all Templars because a few of them are also lunatiucs.

I'm not condemning them, just killing them if they're trying to kill me or any mage I've deemed to be under my protection.

I thought Cullen was the most decent person in the whole game. He was able to remain fair and objective despite all of the horrors he saw and was subjected to in his lifetime.

As I see it, Cullen was neither fair nor objective throughout the entire game, but he might be inching towards it by the end.

In the game, not really. Templars are meant to obey orders from their higher ups. Disobedience is not tolerated. And if I was faced with the possibility of being sent to Aeonar or going through lyrium withdrawal... I don't know, following orders is a pretty easy way out, even if it goes against common sense. Templars are prisoners in a way, too. They are inhibited by lyrium as well as the strictness of the Order.

True, but they're still in their right minds (unless they're lyrium-addled, in which case I don't blame them). They're not evil for following orders, but are culpable for murder. I'll accept extenuating circumstances, though.

[Schratty]

rak72 wrote...
My opinion is that the Templars serve a vital functon. 

:wub:Cullen:wub:

Yes. Vital functions like looking good in their plate mail uniforms. >.> <.<

[Avilia]

 @Gala and Bek - feel better soon 

[rak72]

Schratty wrote...

rak72 wrote...
My opinion is that the Templars serve a vital functon. 

:wub:Cullen:wub:

Yes. Vital functions like looking good in their plate mail uniforms. >.> <.<

If only we could get them to preform functions UNDER the plate mail uniform!

I googled your avatar - hot dude!!
And he does look like Ricky Ricardo when he has the dark hair - which is always a plus in my book.

[Monica21]

Xilizhra wrote...

They a have a responsibility to both the mages and the general population to make sure abominations aren't running amuck. I know you have very strong opinions on this, but they are just that - opinions. My opinion is that the Templars serve a vital functon. Abuses should be dealt with, but like you can't condem all mages because some are bloodmage lunatics, you can not condem all Templars because a few of them are also lunatiucs.

I'm not condemning them, just killing them if they're trying to kill me or any mage I've deemed to be under my protection.

Your status as noble and Champion of Kirkwall gives you zero authority to put anyone under your protection.

I thought Cullen was the most decent person in the whole game. He was able to remain fair and objective despite all of the horrors he saw and was subjected to in his lifetime.

As I see it, Cullen was neither fair nor objective throughout the entire game, but he might be inching towards it by the end.

Cullen is an Andrastian and a loyal Chantry follower. The Chantry claims divine right over mages and uses the Templar order to ensure it. Your definitions of fairness and objectivity seem to stem from an extreme position rather than starting at the middle.

In the game, not really. Templars are meant to obey orders from their higher ups. Disobedience is not tolerated. And if I was faced with the possibility of being sent to Aeonar or going through lyrium withdrawal... I don't know, following orders is a pretty easy way out, even if it goes against common sense. Templars are prisoners in a way, too. They are inhibited by lyrium as well as the strictness of the Order.

True, but they're still in their right minds (unless they're lyrium-addled, in which case I don't blame them). They're not evil for following orders, but are culpable for murder. I'll accept extenuating circumstances, though.

Under whose law and whose authority? You're throwing around legal terms but failing to understand the relationship between mages and the Chantry, the Templar organization, and any kind of recent history where a lot of people died. 

Modifié par Monica21, 22 août 2011 - 09:49 .

[RagingCyclone]

Delurking to ask a question since you ladies move fast...I can just barely keep up. Lol

My question is...and I know I'm asking to think back a bit...but where would Cullen have been sent after the events at the circle in Ferelden? I would assume to deal with the traumatic things he witnessed he would have to for some little while . Reason I ask is I write short stories about my headcanon warden...and I have urge to include Cullen in a post-circle story.

[R2s Muse]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Delurking to ask a question since you ladies move fast...I can just barely keep up. Lol

My question is...and I know I'm asking to think back a bit...but where would Cullen have been sent after the events at the circle in Ferelden? I would assume to deal with the traumatic things he witnessed he would have to for some little while . Reason I ask is I write short stories about my headcanon warden...and I have urge to include Cullen in a post-circle story.

We sorta talked about this a few pages back, around pg 65-ish I think, if you want more. But, it depends on which epilogue I think you want to believe. Some of those covered in the wiki on Cullen, suggesting he either went on crazy murder spree or became Ferelden Knight-Commander after Greagoir -- both ostensibly non-canon endings now. However, there's mage gossip in Witch Hunt that says he went to the Chantry at Greenfell for his nerves. You can see gala's vid of that here.  Not sure if the Greenfell part is "true" but it's an option for a post-circle story.

[Avilia]

@RagingCyclone - I've heard Greenfells being mentioned but I'm not sure if that's canon or fanon or someone's head canon. I'm at work so I can't do a proper hunt around but hopefully someone less hopeless at lore will have an answer

Ninja'd  by a better authority.  I'll leave it here for posterity

Modifié par Avilia, 22 août 2011 - 11:18 .

[Xilizhra]

Your status as noble and Champion of Kirkwall gives you zero authority to put anyone under your protection.

True, my siding with the mages is rather ad hoc. I don't care that much.

Cullen is an Andrastian and a loyal Chantry follower. The Chantry claims divine right over mages and uses the Templar order to ensure it. Your definitions of fairness and objectivity seem to stem from an extreme position rather than starting at the middle.

To me, that sounds like saying evolutionism and Creationism should be given equal scientific weight. Sometimes fairness isn't in the middle; sometimes reality supports bias.

Under whose law and whose authority? You're throwing around legal terms but failing to understand the relationship between mages and the Chantry, the Templar organization, and any kind of recent history where a lot of people died.

I apologize for the clumsiness; I was referring to moral terms.

[R2s Muse]

rak72 wrote...

Schratty wrote...

rak72 wrote...
My opinion is that the Templars serve a vital functon. 

Yes. Vital functions like looking good in their plate mail uniforms. >.> <.<

If only we could get them to preform functions UNDER the plate mail uniform!

Sooo... this reminds me of question I've been having this week *ahem*. Looking again at the kneeling pic -- provided again below merely as illustration -- I was inevitably looking, um, underneath his armor. And, it looks like he's wearing a tunic that sorta matches his skirt.

My question... do you think it might be one whole garment, sorta middle ages Templar-style? Or does he just happen to be color coordinated and the tunic and skirt are separate. Not that I've been thinking about how to, um, undress a templar, but well.... um, there you go. Thoughts?


EDIT: D'oh, Avilia. Sorry! :alien:

Modifié par R2s Muse, 22 août 2011 - 11:23 .

[Avilia]

Ah an occupation close to my heart R2 - looking up Templar skirts.

I imagined it as a long cloth tunic over trousers, either leather or cloth. Then over that a padded coat type thing, then the armour we can see on top. (the red sleeves you see under the armour straps are the coat)

According to Alistair the tunic is brightly coloured - hehe - I see it with the sword of mercy embroidered on the front. Perhaps the tunic is that red with the sword of mercy in gold.

Modifié par Avilia, 22 août 2011 - 11:32 .

[RagingCyclone]

R2 and everyone, thanks. I knew he went somewhere, snf I was listening recently in WH but didn't catch it. As to the crazy...I never believed that epilogue, he' too strong willed. Stressed yes, but to totally lose it, no.

As for the tunic...I have to think back to Alistair and his talking about the uniform. I am guessing it' a singular robe under the plate, and something if he wanted can keep under his pillow.

[rak72]

I think they go commando on hot days

[R2s Muse]

Ah, didn't recall Alistair talking about the uniform. Have to go dig that out. Thanks.

Oh, and Avilia, just saw your new Nate sig. LMAO!
@rak72 ... hmmm... the possibilities. Kirkwall is often hot, no?

[Avilia]

@rak you do realise that every time I talk to Cullen from now on I'll be doing it with that thought in my mind ;-)

[rak72]

Avilia wrote...

@rak you do realise that every time I talk to Cullen from now on I'll be doing it with that thought in my mind ;-)

Lol, that's me, I'm a helper!

[RagingCyclone]

Rak...is that why the one on the left in the pic is standing like that? *snickers*

[Schratty]

rak72 wrote...

I think they go commando on hot days

That seems like it would be awfully...chafe-y.

And thank you! I think he's pretty dapper

RagingCyclone wrote...

Rak...is that why the one on the left in the pic is standing like that? *snickers*

He does look like he's trying to adjust..."the boys".

Modifié par Schratty, 22 août 2011 - 11:51 .

[rak72]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Rak...is that why the one on the left in the pic is standing like that? *snickers*

It kind of looks like he's trying to catch a nice breeze

[Aeowyn]

RagingCyclone wrote...

R2 and everyone, thanks. I knew he went somewhere, snf I was listening recently in WH but didn't catch it. As to the crazy...I never believed that epilogue, he' too strong willed. Stressed yes, but to totally lose it, no.

As for the tunic...I have to think back to Alistair and his talking about the uniform. I am guessing it' a singular robe under the plate, and something if he wanted can keep under his pillow.

They only mention it if you play a female mage, since their gossip basically starts as soon as she enters the room. 
"Look who's back".

My personal belief is that, since DA2 was in its development when Witch Hunt was released, they added the Greenfell story there to, I guess, make his transition into DA2 believeable. DA2 Cullen acts like someone who still has bad memories but has gone through therapy. 

Not sure if that made any sense.