24 réponses à ce sujet

[DanteCousland]

Okay here's what I think of the different acts and me and a few other online and irl friends have come to a consensus about this. Act 1 played out little more than an MMORPG. Past the escape from Lothering the plot was little more than to do several self contained side quests for gold to get on an expedition (which in itself was to make more money). Having a single overarching goal is not the same as a plot. Granted subplots were handled perfectly like with Fenyriel and I have to admit the Side quests were excellent in DA2 but that's the thing. Act 1 was composed of what felt like little more than sidequests. I mean going on an expedition is hardly as exciting, something you wish to root for or are  encaptured by as trying to overthrow a traitor to the king and raise an army (plus gaining vengeance if you were from the human noble origin). However in Act 1 there was no overarching plot, nothing to root for except for Gold. Act 1 was achieving a goal rather than going through an intertwining plot and that killed it for me. Add that to endless spawns of mercenaries and it feels like something out of WoW rather than Dragon Age. However and this is going slightly off topic I loved how act 1 mentioned alot of the things you did from origins such as saving Renvil Harrowmont from the Bhelens thugs or killing the Amaranthine Traitors.

Now Act 2 was good. Act 2 was solid. We got to see much more of the Qunari, we got a new flavour in the world of dragon age (The mage templar conflict was done quite a bit in DAO whilst the Qunari appeared relatively little) and we had a clear goal to root for "To quell the situation with the Qunari before it spirals out of control". We were set a task and we got drawn in as our actions had effects that caused that plot to unravel. We were the catalyst in act 2, we weren't just some smalltime crook going for gold not really changing the enviroment around him, we were doing what DA2 promised to deliver. We were rising to power and effecting the lives of many people. The Quests began to take more political turns, we watched as elements of the Chantry spread discourse about the Qunari, as a brutal serial killer took a loved one and as our companions began to grow (Varic seems to take a more serious tone after confronting Bartrand whilst Aveline a light hearted one upon "Getting with" Donnic". To put it simply our Actions started to have an affect and we actually had a semi decent story going on rather than collecting gold.

Unfortuantely all good things come to an end in what was the Clusterf**k of Act 3. Don't get me wrong I'm not slating DA2s visuals, combat or voice acting just elements of the plot that seemed rushed. We already have multiple threads about how Orsino doing what he did if you sided with the mages was pointless (I'll reiterate again though Bioware....WTF!). But there really wasn't a sense of urgency. Varric going "Tensions increased in the last 3 years" followed by some encounters with batsh** crazy bloodmages *Yawn* because we haven't seen that anywhere before have we now *Insert Uldred + Blackmarsh + random encounters from DAO + Mage Collective+ Chanters board quest*. It was just doing the same thing we'd done a hundred times with an autistic dwarf babbling about a prophecy which will no doubt come of nothing due to Bioware having the opportunity to say "Nothing happened in DA2, Varic made it all up" ( I mean they already brung Leliana back after I decapitated her head... not to mention Anders awakening epilogue not matching up with DA2). Blah I'm just babbling now aren't I. Look you don't need me to point out the obvious. Act 3 was dumb. Meredith wielding some big ass lightsaber (Yes I know it's the idol but it looks like something Cloud would wield) plus Zevran possibly turning up without even greeting the player just confuses people (Lets add that to the Orsino equation) followed by some poorely written character "twists" all ends up with a headache. Then it ends with 3 years left in Hawkes rise to power (no doubt reserved for a dlc or expansion so we can suck further upon EAs teat pumping its udders with our money).

/rant

[Darth Obvious]

Yeah, you got it right. Whoever was responsible for the poor writing of Act 3 should be fired.

[DanteCousland]

Same goes for whoever was responsible for the lack of writing in Act 1 I jk lol.

[cast_]

Yep, act 1 was ok, 2 was awesome, 3 blew.

[Danjaru]

Act 1 was a drag,

Act 2 was better but still suffered from the sidequest syndrome with very few main quests.

Act 3 I actually liked except the whole "You might sympathize with mages, SO WE'RE GONNA SHOVE HOW BAD THEY CAN BE DOWN YOUR THROATS!" and the Orsino thing just made me laugh. We were slaughtering the Templars and he went "they could use a boss battle right about now".

Modifié par Danjaru, 20 mars 2011 - 03:02 .

[DanteCousland]

Yerh Bioware really tried to show how mages were bad because elts face it the majority of people will go for freedom of mages so they wanted to even it up by trying to make every apostate youencounter an evil blood mage. Seriously Im just sick of killing shades now, I mean in DAO demons were tough and scary now it's just sword fodder.

[Dangerfoot]

MMORPGs aren't really synonymous with side quests.

[DanteCousland]

you know what i mean lots of WoW is sidequesting killing thids guy for gold getting this item etc. I only did 1 day of the 10 day trial for Wow though not enough of a story.

[Chaia]

DanteCousland wrote...

Bioware having the opportunity to say "Nothing happened in DA2, Varic made it all up"

I hope they don't do this, otherwise DA2 is a little pointless plotwise.

Admittedly Act 3 did feel a little short compared to Act 1 and 2, and having 95% of the mages being either a abomination or blood mage did get a little silly towards the end of the game espically with Orsino, but I still liked DA2 (would have liked more Flemeth time though, and I prefer the orginal Darkspawn designs: Shrieks, Genlocks and Hurlocks have seemed to have gone on holiday )

Modifié par Chaia, 20 mars 2011 - 03:28 .

[Clumber]

I personally enjoyed act 3, though act 2 was better. Act 3 had its flaws but I thought they set the right tone, with the Templars becoming more powerful and oppressive and showing the mages' desperation.

I was really annoyed though, how in the end everyone in the Circle becomes a blood mage or an abomination. They've been raised with "blood magic is evil" being hammered into them, how can ALL of them turn to it when cornered, or just allow themselves to become abominations? Isn't that supposed to be WORSE than death? Yet half the mages do it at a moments notice?

It really ruins the point about the oppression of mages when everything every mage hater says about them is completely true. I really think the resisting mages should have been MAGES. How can you NOT side with the Templars when the only things left in the tower are Demons?

[Darkshore]

DanteCousland wrote...

Okay here's what I think of the different acts and me and a few other online and irl friends have come to a consensus about this. Act 1 played out little more than an MMORPG. Past the escape from Lothering the plot was little more than to do several self contained side quests for gold to get on an expedition (which in itself was to make more money). Having a single overarching goal is not the same as a plot. Granted subplots were handled perfectly like with Fenyriel and I have to admit the Side quests were excellent in DA2 but that's the thing. Act 1 was composed of what felt like little more than sidequests. I mean going on an expedition is hardly as exciting, something you wish to root for or are  encaptured by as trying to overthrow a traitor to the king and raise an army (plus gaining vengeance if you were from the human noble origin). However in Act 1 there was no overarching plot, nothing to root for except for Gold. Act 1 was achieving a goal rather than going through an intertwining plot and that killed it for me. Add that to endless spawns of mercenaries and it feels like something out of WoW rather than Dragon Age. However and this is going slightly off topic I loved how act 1 mentioned alot of the things you did from origins such as saving Renvil Harrowmont from the Bhelens thugs or killing the Amaranthine Traitors.

Now Act 2 was good. Act 2 was solid. We got to see much more of the Qunari, we got a new flavour in the world of dragon age (The mage templar conflict was done quite a bit in DAO whilst the Qunari appeared relatively little) and we had a clear goal to root for "To quell the situation with the Qunari before it spirals out of control". We were set a task and we got drawn in as our actions had effects that caused that plot to unravel. We were the catalyst in act 2, we weren't just some smalltime crook going for gold not really changing the enviroment around him, we were doing what DA2 promised to deliver. We were rising to power and effecting the lives of many people. The Quests began to take more political turns, we watched as elements of the Chantry spread discourse about the Qunari, as a brutal serial killer took a loved one and as our companions began to grow (Varic seems to take a more serious tone after confronting Bartrand whilst Aveline a light hearted one upon "Getting with" Donnic". To put it simply our Actions started to have an affect and we actually had a semi decent story going on rather than collecting gold.

Unfortuantely all good things come to an end in what was the Clusterf**k of Act 3. Don't get me wrong I'm not slating DA2s visuals, combat or voice acting just elements of the plot that seemed rushed. We already have multiple threads about how Orsino doing what he did if you sided with the mages was pointless (I'll reiterate again though Bioware....WTF!). But there really wasn't a sense of urgency. Varric going "Tensions increased in the last 3 years" followed by some encounters with batsh** crazy bloodmages *Yawn* because we haven't seen that anywhere before have we now *Insert Uldred + Blackmarsh + random encounters from DAO + Mage Collective+ Chanters board quest*. It was just doing the same thing we'd done a hundred times with an autistic dwarf babbling about a prophecy which will no doubt come of nothing due to Bioware having the opportunity to say "Nothing happened in DA2, Varic made it all up" ( I mean they already brung Leliana back after I decapitated her head... not to mention Anders awakening epilogue not matching up with DA2). Blah I'm just babbling now aren't I. Look you don't need me to point out the obvious. Act 3 was dumb. Meredith wielding some big ass lightsaber (Yes I know it's the idol but it looks like something Cloud would wield) plus Zevran possibly turning up without even greeting the player just confuses people (Lets add that to the Orsino equation) followed by some poorely written character "twists" all ends up with a headache. Then it ends with 3 years left in Hawkes rise to power (no doubt reserved for a dlc or expansion so we can suck further upon EAs teat pumping its udders with our money).

/rant

It's all in the eye of the beholder. I for one liked the story sooo yeah..doesn't mean it sucks just because some people like it and some people don't.

[Cuthlan]

Seeing as the only common factor of an MMO is the massive multiplayer part... no.

And I liked Act 3, with the exception of a few details.

[NKKKK]

Mark Darrah think Act 3 is awesome, so we're all ****ed.

[Big I]

Act 3 was just bad. Anders blew up the Chantry so Meredith decides to annul the Circle? The guy who did it is standing RIGHT THERE. ARREST HIM if it makes you happy. Or you could use your buster sword to animate some statues, that's cool too. Why would she even want a sword made out of lyrium? That stuff is toxic.

I would have liked the plot much better if Acts 2 and 3 had simply switched places (i.e. Mage vs Templar in Act 2, Qunari in Act 3), and maybe if there'd been a choice to help the Arishok convert Kirkwall to the Qun.

[vigna]

Agree with OP. Act one is grindddiiinnnng. Act 2 rules to no end. Act 3 blowwwws.

Also agree about the quality of most side quests and companion quests.

[theangryllama]

Honestly i think act 1 was fine if you look at each individual part rather than the whole. It was more of an extended prologue focusing on introducing you to all the characters, introducing the seedier side of the city and starting to hint at the growing conflict. The whole 'get money for the expedition' thing imo was really just a way of making sure you did all these quests in order to get that introduction and didn't just skip straight ahead.

Act 2 everyone agrees was great, no argument there

Act 3 was good right up until the end with the whole tacked on excuses to give you boss battles. I mean how can you say that it didn't engage you at all when I'm sure most people here spent at least 5-10mins maybe more trying to decide what the hell to do after the almighty WTF ANDERS! moment. It sucked you in, whether you think so or not I find that moment alone one of the best written points in the games that I've played.

[Rafe34]

Cuthlan wrote...

Seeing as the only common factor of an MMO is the massive multiplayer part... no.

And I liked Act 3, with the exception of a few details.

Lots of quests telling you to go here and kill these guys, I believe is what he is referring to, and most MMOs do do this.

I can't think of one save Eve Online off the top of my head that does not.

Anyway, I completely agree with the OP, I think you read my mind or something. That's pretty much how I felt.

[Dokarqt]

Good post OP, summed up what alot of people were thinking.

Act 1=okey, but very unfocused with an endless amount sidequests that didn't do much to make you feel involved in the story.
Act 2=Finally bioware showing their true quality, this is great!
Act 3=It felt like bioware finished Act 2 then got a notice that they were completely out of both time and resources. "Hurry up guys and gals, I want this game done by tomorrow!"

[Dark Specie]

Exactly how I feel about DA2. Act 1 was okay - no major complaints, though it didn't feel particullary awesome either. Act 2 is the best one. Act 3, or rather the later half of it, is a mess, a disgrace, plain and simple. Bioware can do better than that.

[DanteCousland]

Has anyone else noticed this but in all the interviews Mike Laidlaw gives he's putting on rose tinted glasses. even when negatives are brung up I mean granted he can't say "yeah we made a mediocre game compared to what we usually do" but still. I mean he's like (I'm paraphrasing here) "Yeh well he had to sacrifice recycled enviroments for more content!" or -Many people may not like this new dark political story because they want a rehash of origins, to defeat an old evil. I mean it's good we have "extra content" (depends how far that goes, that in itself is subjective) but at the end of the day you still have bad setting and due to setting being one of the most important elements in a story (who, what, WHERE, when, why) it does break immersion. Anyway  I've very rarely seen anyone wanting to play another blight within the dragon age. It seems the majority of people wanted a dark political tale and alot of the devs can't admit that they didn't do a good job, I'm not saying they did a bad job just not a good job of it. 

[Dark Specie]

DanteCousland wrote...
-Many people may not like this new dark political story because they want a rehash of origins, to defeat an old evil. I mean it's good we have "extra content" (depends how far that goes, that in itself is subjective) but at the end of the day you still have bad setting and due to setting being one of the most important elements in a story (who, what, WHERE, when, why) it does break immersion. Anyway  I've very rarely seen anyone wanting to play another blight within the dragon age. It seems the majority of people wanted a dark political tale and alot of the devs can't admit that they didn't do a good job, I'm not saying they did a bad job just not a good job of it. 

Huh. If the developers thinks it's the "defeat an ancient evil"-part of Origins that people want to see again, then they're wrong by far...

[GunMoth]

Beautiful. I'm actually going around trying to compile as many different opinions about the storyline and gameplay. Despite all of the negative reviews something about the game compels me to enjoy it, even though it feels extremely disjointed. It could be buyers remorse, but I am honestly perplexed. I have never felt so extremely alienated when approaching a videogame's artistic concepts. Something was wrong, but the issues felt so distant and fragmented that I simply couldn't "find the bars of the cage" I was trapped in. Dante, you definitely shined some light on a couple points I've been frustrated with.

I found it admirable that they strayed away from the stereotypical Lord of the Rings plot where Orcs come out of the ground then an ancient organization reunites and recruits new members to destroy the orc threat. They tried addressing too many issues at once and I can only HOPE its because they plan on focusing the next installment on the invasion of the Qunari while the Circles are broken and most of the entire world is engaged in a civil war. The warden and the champion are both missing, leaving room for a hero in Dragon Age 3 to wander about Thedas cleaning up a giant mess. However, this is simply wishful thinking. The random disappearances of both the Warden and the Champion were a bit sloppy as far as plot devices go, hopefully they explain it well.

Dragon Age 2 had an extreme case of "second installment syndrome". It was jumping from plot device to plot device in an attempt to completely destroy Thedas' laws. This made it feel like an extremely long version of DLC that should have been released between Origins and 2. My time in Kirkwall felt as if it could have been explain through a codex. It was a pivotal point in history, but it didn't feel involving. The lack of player choice in Act III was (my assumption) meant to make the player feel completely insignificant and out of control. It added an extreme amount of pressure, but it took away our voices as players. Why couldn't we simply have stood up on our soap box and rallied followers from both sides that simply desired a common ground? We could have led our own army against the abominations of the circle and the templars who couldn't think for themselves.

Also, I'm still not sure what they intend to do with the Awakening plot, but it didn't really feel like solid plot development unless the "Allies" Nathaniel was speaking of in the deep roads of Dragon Age 2 WERE the intelligent Darkspawn. But that wouldn't be consistent with the player's decision at the end of Awakening. Fffffff. Too much fan fiction wishful thinking. I need to stop.

ALSO, it could just be because I'm a hardcore Demon's Souls fan, but did anyone here think the fight with Meredith feel similar to the fight with "The False King"? I think Dragon Age 2 has made me mildly insane. :|

Modifié par GunMoth, 20 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[GunMoth]

Dark Specie wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
-Many people may not like this new dark political story because they want a rehash of origins, to defeat an old evil. I mean it's good we have "extra content" (depends how far that goes, that in itself is subjective) but at the end of the day you still have bad setting and due to setting being one of the most important elements in a story (who, what, WHERE, when, why) it does break immersion. Anyway  I've very rarely seen anyone wanting to play another blight within the dragon age. It seems the majority of people wanted a dark political tale and alot of the devs can't admit that they didn't do a good job, I'm not saying they did a bad job just not a good job of it. 

Huh. If the developers thinks it's the "defeat an ancient evil"-part of Origins that people want to see again, then they're wrong by far...

Almost all of Bioware's games (Mass Effect, Dragon Age) begin with the call to arms. A normal citizen or soldier becoming a hero. Players want a large world, and a threat that will force them to explore different countries and ideaology while trying to unite against that threat. Ancient Evil and large threat =/= the same thing. 

I have love for a lot of the writers, but I think they're trying too hard to please us sometimes. Or maybe they simply don't know what we want. 

[JulianoV]

I really enjoyed act 2, but they kind of dumped every side quest in it, apparently. Maybe I came away with this impression because they were available in both final acts and I get them all done in the second, but it made Act 3 seem tremendously short, eerie(in a storm is approaching fastly way) and unsatisfying.

[Darkshore]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Act 3 was just bad. Anders blew up the Chantry so Meredith decides to annul the Circle? The guy who did it is standing RIGHT THERE. ARREST HIM if it makes you happy. Or you could use your buster sword to animate some statues, that's cool too. Why would she even want a sword made out of lyrium? That stuff is toxic.

I would have liked the plot much better if Acts 2 and 3 had simply switched places (i.e. Mage vs Templar in Act 2, Qunari in Act 3), and maybe if there'd been a choice to help the Arishok convert Kirkwall to the Qun.

Shes a Templar, shes addicted to lyrium makes perfect sense to crave the idol. To help convert Kirkwall to the Qun would have been a cool option but also would have ruined the entire story they had planned and could in no way be canon to carry over to da3.