255 réponses à ce sujet

[stobie]

They didn't seem to fix it for Alistair, either (I had Warden Alistair - I don't *like* King Alistair) - but the import fix works for that one. I'm flatly refusing to import my Dalish girl who loved Zevran until they fix that import. (Feel the pain, Bioware! ... Please?)

[FieryDove]

reddead136 wrote...

Well , I've always went with Morrigan as my LI so I guess This won't be to big of a problem for me then?

It might. I think the flags are flaky. I had a warden who romanced Morrigan but in game Leliana says he was dear to her heart? It was not a dao save sadly it had some dlc and daa.

I think they all should be fixed...but it seems impossible without an outside tool. An official tool that lets you checkbox the save game state would be the best.

[Nilfalasiel]

stobie wrote...

I'm flatly refusing to import my Dalish girl who loved Zevran until they fix that import. (Feel the pain, Bioware! ... Please?)

Most of my Wardens romanced Zevran, so I know the feeling X_X

[Heidenreich]

stobie wrote...

They didn't seem to fix it for Alistair, either (I had Warden Alistair - I don't *like* King Alistair) - but the import fix works for that one. I'm flatly refusing to import my Dalish girl who loved Zevran until they fix that import. (Feel the pain, Bioware! ... Please?)

The issue is the flags don't carry over to DA:OA, so DA2 doesn't recognize the relationships. At least in the case of Alistair. I believe Zevran is just bugged himself, and its on their list of things to fix, I believe. But, if you want Warden Alistair to fawn over your Warden, you need to import from DA:O and -not- DA:OA

[RampantAndroid]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Stuff like this should be fixed.

Bioware, seriously, did you test the import feature when it had been implemented?

I wonder if romanced!Isabela wanting to sleep with Zev, even having declared love for Hawke, is also related to this whole buggy mess? Especially since I hear Hawke just stands there like and idiot and allows Izz to have her fling without any complaint.

I will point out (while this post is ancient) that game QA is a painful task from what I know of it. Especially on a branching game like DA or ME. Coming from a software QA background and knowing people who have done game QA work...it's usually hard to automate, and reproducing bugs for them to be debugged by devs is painfully hard to do.

[stobie]

Heidenreich wrote...

stobie wrote...

They didn't seem to fix it for Alistair, either (I had Warden Alistair - I don't *like* King Alistair) - but the import fix works for that one. I'm flatly refusing to import my Dalish girl who loved Zevran until they fix that import. (Feel the pain, Bioware! ... Please?)

The issue is the flags don't carry over to DA:OA, so DA2 doesn't recognize the relationships. At least in the case of Alistair. I believe Zevran is just bugged himself, and its on their list of things to fix, I believe. But, if you want Warden Alistair to fawn over your Warden, you need to import from DA:O and -not- DA:OA

With the import fix, Warden Alistair is fine.   It's Zevran I'm waiting for.   (with the import fix, my awakening-mage-Alistair import is working fine - except I didn't get Nathaniel on that one.)

Modifié par stobie, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:46 .

[ejoslin]

RampantAndroid wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Stuff like this should be fixed.

Bioware, seriously, did you test the import feature when it had been implemented?

I wonder if romanced!Isabela wanting to sleep with Zev, even having declared love for Hawke, is also related to this whole buggy mess? Especially since I hear Hawke just stands there like and idiot and allows Izz to have her fling without any complaint.

I will point out (while this post is ancient) that game QA is a painful task from what I know of it. Especially on a branching game like DA or ME. Coming from a software QA background and knowing people who have done game QA work...it's usually hard to automate, and reproducing bugs for them to be debugged by devs is painfully hard to do.

These types of bugs actually are not difficult to track and fix and test.  The law of unintended consequences doesn't have as strong of a hold either, especially when it's either a case of just miscoded flags or incorrect flags.  It's really as simple as looking at the condition set on the line.  Is it the correct flag?  If so, then look at the flag's code.  If not, get the proper flag in and get the branches in the correct order (this is NOT rocket science).

Game QA IS a PITA.  When you're told exactly where the bug is and such, however, it becomes far easier.  When you're using something like the DAO toolset which is a robust database, it becomes even easier.

Really, I have no clue why these bugs aren't addressed.  They exist.  They are separate and apart from the import flag bug.  There may be a problem with a defined flag in which case fix the defined flag.  An improper flag may be being used.

It just reminds me of how Leliana's hardened dialog does not trigger for the most part in DAO because of a bad defined flag.  There actually IS a non-defined flag that works, yet only a couple of things were fixed (where she tells the warden she'll consider sleeping with both them and Zevran, for instance, is coded with this other flag, as is if she's willing to sleep with Isabela.  But her declaration of love?  Or her decision whether to stay with a warden who's marrying royalty?  Oh, no, of course not -- THOSE can stay broken).

Anyway, rant off.  I just can't figure out WHY they won't fix these dialog or give me the tools to fix them  I would.  It's a shame NOT to have those lines in the game :/

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:05 .

[RampantAndroid]

ejoslin wrote...

These types of bugs actually are not difficult to track and fix and test.  The law of unintended consequences doesn't have as strong of a hold either, especially when it's either a case of just miscoded flags or incorrect flags.  It's really as simple as looking at the condition set on the line.  Is it the correct flag?  If so, then look at the flag's code.  If not, get the proper flag in and get the branches in the correct order (this is NOT rocket science).

Game QA IS a PITA.  When you're told exactly where the bug is and such, however, it becomes far easier.  When you're using something like the DAO toolset which is a robust database, it becomes even easier.

Really, I have no clue why these bugs aren't addressed.  They exist.  They are separate and apart from the import flag bug.  There may be a problem with a defined flag in which case fix the defined flag.  An improper flag may be being used.

No, it isn't that simple. Did the flag somehow get corrupted elsewhere? Is the quest not reading it right? You don't know what the bug is without seing the code and debugging. And as for it being easy to track? It might not be, but in a game that takes 30 hours to play through...finding all the bugs DOES take a LONG time and usually involves hiring an army of contract employees to bascially beat their heads on the game. I know some people who have done that type of work for Nintendo. They'd spend HOURS and find one bug.

[sami jo]

I will point out that ejoslin spent a ridiculous number of hours fixing exactly these kinds of dialogue bugs in DAO to create ZDF. This isn't a difficult to reproduce set of problems. There may not be an alternate flag set to use to easily circumvent the problem, and there are existing issues with the post Origins DLC and DAA not importing some flags, but if a simple script to change which flags are checked and how fixes at least some of the problems without having to patch anything from DAO, fixing the rest of it really should be a priority. We are not talking about immense branching plotlines. These are cameos. I know the devs know about the bugs and I know they are working hard on all kinds of bugs. No one is claiming otherwise. They have been far more responsive than they were with DAO. We would just lIke them to know that this is important to enough people to prioritize it.

Modifié par sami jo, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:31 .

[ejoslin]

I want to add that we're not talking about tracking down bugs -- we are talking about bugs that are documented, reported, and have the various alternate dialogs (that most likely are the ones that should be triggering) noted. It's a matter of pulling up a .dlg file and checking it.

I do have a good idea of what is involved in fixing these bugs with the tools that are most likely available (I do believe that the toolset for DA2 is quite similar to the one for DAO though it was not released). As sami jo pointed out, I wrote a bugfix mod for DAO. Some of these mistakes just make me want to tear out my hair since they're so easily fixed, and they've been reported by countless people.

Edit: WAY late eta...  I didn't mean to imply that all issues were as simple as adding a condition or using an alternative flag.  Some defined flags DO have to be repaired, but again, this for the most part is not that complex.  And if a flag isn't getting set somewhere or an incorrect one is set, it really is just a matter of backtracking.  This can be a bit tedious, but really, the database is laid out in such a way that you should have a good idea where to go when tracking things down.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 04:55 .

[Brockololly]

ejoslin wrote...
Some of these mistakes just make me want to tear out my hair since they're so easily fixed, and they've been reported by countless people.

Yup, sadly with so many of the simple little dialogue bugs they're never fixed. Considering BioWare likes to claim they're all about telling the best most emotionally engaging interactive narratives, you'd think these narrative bugs would be something they'd pay more attention to.

Instead they rarely get fixed and often just get passed along as you import from one game to the next, like Morrigan's borked romance import in DA2.

[RedSonia]

And don't forget some of us didn't play the game on PC but in console so we have no tools to fix these bugs. We need to rely on developpers to fix them. I feel double neglected here.

[Mmw04014]

So the warden Alistair dialogue doesn't work if you imported from Awakening or Witch hunt, etc. but should be fine if just importing from an Origins save? And Zevran just plain doesn't work no matter what?

I really want to play Dragon age 2 again but I'm not importing one where neither of those two recognize the relationship.

[schnln01]

Mmw04014 wrote...

So the warden Alistair dialogue doesn't work if you imported from Awakening or Witch hunt, etc. but should be fine if just importing from an Origins save? And Zevran just plain doesn't work no matter what?

I really want to play Dragon age 2 again but I'm not importing one where neither of those two recognize the relationship.

Not sure if it was just me, but after the patch Warden Alistair still referred to my Warden as a friend rather than the love of his life and that was on an Origins only save. And yea, Zevran never acknowledges the relationship on any of my imports, I can't even get the bug where he loves her but thinks she is dead. And since my Zevran romance is my main Origins Warden, I can't do my main playthrough of DA2 til they fix him.  

So far Leliana is the only romance to correctly import for me and that was with a Warden who did the US and then got imported into Awakenings anyway, which gave me an interesting combination of people/codexes thinking she was either alive or dead. 

[AmuHav]

Wanna add my vote to this Zev is making Benelf sad everytime he flirts with Hawke (although I secretly enjoy seeing Hawke's LI get jealous, especially Fenris :3)

Just a quick question. Don't know if its possible without a toolset etc, but is it possible to get the sound files for the lines Zev is meant to say? That would be a little cheerier for me. Kinda like I listened to the broken banters between Hawke and Fenris for Legacy on youtube, because we can't hear them in our own games

[Gervaise]

If your warden sacrifices himself/herself, it definitely states that despite numerous offers of bed fellows, he never loved again. Not in the sense of never gave his heart - he never had sex again. I found that extremely touching given how sex mad he comes over in the game and demonstrated the sincerity of his affection. Now whilst you could argue that he never agreed to an exclusive arrangement, it would be rather odd if he remained faithful to a dead warden, yet cheated on a living one Remember he has quite strong views about that - "I may be a lot of things but I'm no cheat" are his precise words.

That he might go off on business of his own is understandable - after all he is missing throughout Awakening and in my version of it, I never get the letter explaining why, but the epilogue does say we travel to Antiva and there is some sort of showdown - so that ties in with the death of the guildmaster he refers to, and possibly he wanted to take the heat off the warden so they could return to Ferelden in safety. But casual sex for a fully romanced Zevran is just not on. Luckily it only occurs if I take Isabella with me, so I leave her behind and Fenris warns him off - so I kid myself that he was only teasing and wouldn't have gone through with it really but I would much rather have got the correct conversation.

[Tielis]

Wait... they *still* haven't fixed this???!!!

The game is FIVE MONTHS OLD.

[Heidenreich]

Tielis wrote...

Wait... they *still* haven't fixed this???!!!

The game is FIVE MONTHS OLD.

They're not going to. They said the problem lies within Awakening and Origins itself, not within DA2. Because of this, they will not be fixing it, because that would require patching a game they're no longer developing.

[Jilinna]

Heidenreich wrote...

They're not going to. They said the problem lies within Awakening and Origins itself, not within DA2. Because of this, they will not be fixing it, because that would require patching a game they're no longer developing.

I heard them say this as well. However, when I saw what Mike Laidlaw said in this thread (social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/315/index/8035969/2#8040375). I assumed they were going to fix it, and as a result stopped playing my Zevran romance import in hopes they would.

Here is the qoute from the thread:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Since I'm in a sharing mood, I will put this out there: our intention is that for each major release of Dragon Age, you will take up the mantle of a new character. This does not mean your old character may never appear in future games, but as faras the core protagonist goes, if there is a DA III, it will very likely be neither Hawke nor The Warden.

We want to keep the series about the time and place, rather than about any singular character. While I know not everyone prefers that approach, I believe it's perfectly valid, especially if certain plans of ours to shore up world consistency (import bugs really bother me!) come to fruition, which I believe they will.

And that's all I can say about that.

Modifié par Jilinna, 30 août 2011 - 05:38 .

[MelBee]

Then I wish they'd just release the tool-set. . . at least if they don't fix it, some wonderful modders will do it for them and us, and probably in less then a month

[Jaulen]

*sigh*

No wonder I have been so confused with the Zevran cameos when importing a Zevran romanced playthrough. Although I did get the "Normally I would jump at the chance, but my dear Warden may be a tad put out." line once.....and only once.

And the Alistair as King options are kind of....he tries to come off as funny.....but.....(did a Queen and a mistress import). Although the Alistair as a warden with the Warden dead was....heartbreaking.

I want my Zevran lines!!!!!!

[Yermog]

The latest patch was supposed to fix the dialogue, but it still didn't for me. But I've gotten so used to having Zevran walk off with Isabela or flirting with Hawke that I've now sadly resigned myself to it.

[Christalllena]

Please fix the zevran romance.

[Aurien]

Bleh if this still isn't fixed it's gonna be a sad play through for my imported Dalish warden. Thanks to mods adding to Zev's romance I had a beautiful DA:O romance with him and was hoping to see what happens when I ran into him in DA:2. Good to know ahead of time he's just gonna end up cheating on my warden... (especially since I have the dalish wedding mod on DA:O, that would have been an unpleasant shocker lol)

I'm hoping since I'm importing a save straight from DA:O and no add on adventure packs, (I have them but didn't really feel like playing them all again and really wanted to get this import in lol) that maybe I won't encounter these bugs? *doesn't get her hopes too high* lol

[Fauxnormal]

The melodrama in this thread makes me facepalm.

Also, they're not developing the game any more. Stop whining.