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Gay romance options.. a little rant (spoiler-ish)


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#51
Dunizel

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sassperella wrote...

Making a normal person in a larger than life universe can make them bland and uninteresting so I think they made them all a bit exaggerated. Maybe they could have made a more normal romance option but whoever is romanceable there will be people that disagree with them, so it's a really hard thing to do and impossible to please everyone.


This. 
Just keep in my that this is a videogame, a fantasy story. In a normal real world you would probably avoid such individuals for your own sake. While in a videogame, or a book, or a film (whatever really), especially in such a grim world, such characters can exist and you can find them appealing...you are not risking anything, you are just enjoying part of their characters and personality that you like, and that here are taken to their extremes.
A totally normal love interest would have probably be considered bland in such a setting. Sorry to be rude, but there is plenty of "normal" people out there in the real world, you don't need a romance simulator in DA :°D

That said...yes, the LI are a bit extreme. I'm a girl, I was totally happy with Anders and Fenris to be honest. But the girls? I don't know...I wouldn't even befriend them in real life. I can understand if a male didn't want to romance Isabela and Merrill...I don't find Isabela funny with her insistent jokes about sex (and what is worst is that soemtimes in the banters you can glimpse that she is not just about sex, I would have liked to know better THAT Isabela), and I wouls slap Merrill's face everytime she talked about blood magic and demons (no, the cute voice wouldn't have saved her).

#52
Eveangaline

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I thought both dude romances were great. Not biowares fault they can't give a range of possible LIs for every possible bit of taste. I found both the guys hot, and enjoyed their romances.

#53
CrookedAsylum

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MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Note: Funny you mention Jacob and Edward - I believe Twilight was once referenced by the developers on how good romances could be written. So, that's telling you something.


Wow..that's depressing.

Though it would explain why you can't go along with Anders without suffering from battered wife syndrome.


Mr. Gaider also said Bella was a useless character (paraphrased) and that Jacob and Edward had much more chemistry. (Not so paraphrased.)

#54
Taura-Tierno

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Eveangaline wrote...

I thought both dude romances were great. Not biowares fault they can't give a range of possible LIs for every possible bit of taste. I found both the guys hot, and enjoyed their romances.


Fenris is the best romance I've played in any RPG, I think. I enjoyed the romances in DA:O, but more because they added interesting variations on character interaction for the different gameplays than actually enjoying the romances per se, so from a romance perspective, they weren't my taste. The Fenris romance definitely is, though, and I've waited for a looong time for one like that :P


Dunizel wrote...

That said...yes, the LI are a bit extreme. I'm a girl, I was totally happy with Anders and Fenris to be honest. But the girls? I don't know...I wouldn't even befriend them in real life. I can understand if a male didn't want to romance Isabela and Merrill...I don't find Isabela funny with her insistent jokes about sex (and what is worst is that soemtimes in the banters you can glimpse that she is not just about sex, I would have liked to know better THAT Isabela), and I wouls slap Merrill's face everytime she talked about blood magic and demons (no, the cute voice wouldn't have saved her).


To be honest, I would've found Isabela very interesting to meet in real life - not from a romance perspective, but just generally - because I always thought she came off as very friendly. Sure, she jokes a lot about sex, but she does so with good intentions. Aside from the theft and everything, she seems a pretty normal, albeit promiscuous character. 

I couldn't have standed meeting Merril or Anders, though. 

#55
android654

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StarFireLiz wrote...

 There's Isabella who's just a giant disease carrying uterus


Or in other words, fun.

#56
lordbyro

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Ixiel wrote...

I was excited when DAO came out. The idea of playing a game with the option to pursue gay relationships was fairly new. I ended up choosing not to pursue any however, because my only option was to get with a girl or a ho (sorry Zevran). My original character was unfortunate enough to develop unrequited feelings for Alistair, which made martyrdom an easy decision and turned DAO into even more of a tragic story. Now DA2 launches and my options have evolved (like an evil pokemon)!

On one hand I can choose Anders, a schizophrenic, suffering from bi-polarity and multiple personality disorder. Half way into our friendship I'm begin to think he may have eaten sir pounce-a-lot just so they would never be apart. Quit, Load previous game. On the other hand I could choose Fenris a masochistic, skinny jeans wearing, homeless boi, who squats in a condemned building, and has two emotional modes, loathing & broken. I expected him to flinch or bite me any time I made a sudden movement. As a mage, I couldn't help but feel our relationship may eventually bump into trust issues. I ended up choosing Fenris, cause he shuts up when I tell him to and tattoos are hot. Plus the thought of waking up to Anders watching me sleep, was too scary.

Why oh why are my options so physically and psychologically unattractive? I feel like I'm choosing between Team Edward and Team Jacob (without even the option of Jacob's body). Where is the exotic, drop-dead gorgeous option, with a great sense of humor? where is the companion with a rough exterior, but a genuine heart? Ohh right, Isabella... Who also happens to be a complete slattern.

Sadly, the closest option for any type of healthy relationship in DA2 seemed to be with either my dog, or an anally retentive, moraly obnoxious, butch-girl, who looks like she owns a milk'n cow. I'm not sure anyone except Donnic can hook that up. 

I look forward to the option for epic romance in DA3... That or the designers will appease the other side of the room and there will be dwarfsex.:unsure:



Excellent mental labor. No words to add.

#57
jadefishes

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Ixiel wrote...

[snip]
On one hand I can choose Anders, a schizophrenic, suffering from bi-polarity and multiple personality disorder. Half way into our friendship I'm begin to think he may have eaten sir pounce-a-lot just so they would never be apart. Quit, Load previous game. [snip]:unsure:


I laughed out loud.

But dwarfsex would be fine, as long as it's with Varric.

#58
DM Veil

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I think this thread has pointed out every reason why I am just going to avoid romances in future runs through the game, all of my companions are messed up in some way or another and I can't say I find any of them attractive on a romance level.

#59
likeorasgod

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You forgot Feneris is allso very good at brooding. When I do my male mage play through I think I'll romance him...and destroy all the stupid blood mages.

Though I have to say I wanted my Male Warrior ro romoance Av, but wasn't an option. Why is it the ones you want to romance half the time aren't options or they have to be like half my crazy ex's RL?

#60
Heather Cline

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I like all the characters from a writing stand point. I cannot agree or disagree with what has come before. All I can say is I like Isabela as a romance option. I like it from the personality stand point. I'm not saying she isn't a slattern or that she isn't sexually promiscuous but she is an interesting character to romance.

Merrill does seem a bit on the flighty side of things, but I romanced her and had a very interesting play through with her. Is she mentally challenged? No. Does she not see reality as it truly is? Yes because she is keeping herself from seeing the truth about the Eluvian.

However Merrill is not a mental equivalent of a 5 year old. She is just naive having been socially isolated most of her life as the Keeper's First and not socializing as much as she should have been.

Isabela, though sexually promiscuous uses that as a front for her own insecurities. It's even stated as such if you get far enough along in the romance to find out for sure.

I have not romanced either Anders or Fenris, not into guys. But I'm guessing that they both have depths that I haven't seen due to not romancing them.

People are complex, their pasts define them, make them who they are. Fenris was shaped by his experiences and is an angry brooding person but probably ends up more if you romance him.

Anders, well we already know his back story. And yes we know what he will do towards the end of the game. Thing is, Anders is probably more complex than what I've seen so far because I haven't done the whole romance thing.

Am I saying that the options for romance suck? No. Am I agreeing that they could have done better? Maybe depending on what the writers were going for.

Can they do better for future romance options? Yes of course they can always do better. But the fact remains these are the characters we got. Enjoy them for what they are and not for what the are not.

It's a story. Stories are always going to make you hate or like certain characters, that is their job.

#61
fchopin

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I am very disappointed with the romance options in DA2.

It's one of very few games that i play that i am not really interested in any of the characters.

I just use who i think will be the best for my combat team and don't really care what they say.

If Bethany was still around she would always be my main mage but we are forced to use idiots for mages because Bioware don't believe in options anymore.

#62
meganmeave

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Sarah1281 wrote...
If you think that those who stay with Anders are unbalanced or have other issues that's one thing but those issues are simply NOT battered wife syndrome. I'd disagree that Anders is the dominant person in the relationship and furthermore the time between gathering the ingredients and blowing up the Chantry is probably less than a week but certainly no more than a couple of them. No extended period of time.

Just because you disagree with the choice to date Anders doesn't mean anyone who does has battered wife syndrome. There's nothing wrong with dating him. Staying with him post-Chantry is a little trickier but it still does not fit the classification of battered wife syndrome.


While I agree with your post, I can understand why people might make these kinds of hasty conclusions. The writers did put "Flirty" options in for Hawke that say stuff like, "I enjoy being hurt." when responding to Anders. Either this is clumsy writing or some kind of sly comment on the writer's part about the kinds of women who would romance a character like Anders. Either way, it's a little creepy, even if I don't think there is any semblance of battered wife syndrome in the Anders relationship.

I will have to say, this, more than anything else in act 1, made me leary of courting Anders in game. They were simply awful choices to pick, even if Hawke doesn't actually say those things to Anders. I still had to pick them in order for her to persue a romance with him.

#63
starfrak

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meganmeave wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
If you think that those who stay with Anders are unbalanced or have other issues that's one thing but those issues are simply NOT battered wife syndrome. I'd disagree that Anders is the dominant person in the relationship and furthermore the time between gathering the ingredients and blowing up the Chantry is probably less than a week but certainly no more than a couple of them. No extended period of time.

Just because you disagree with the choice to date Anders doesn't mean anyone who does has battered wife syndrome. There's nothing wrong with dating him. Staying with him post-Chantry is a little trickier but it still does not fit the classification of battered wife syndrome.


While I agree with your post, I can understand why people might make these kinds of hasty conclusions. The writers did put "Flirty" options in for Hawke that say stuff like, "I enjoy being hurt." when responding to Anders. Either this is clumsy writing or some kind of sly comment on the writer's part about the kinds of women who would romance a character like Anders. Either way, it's a little creepy, even if I don't think there is any semblance of battered wife syndrome in the Anders relationship.

I will have to say, this, more than anything else in act 1, made me leary of courting Anders in game. They were simply awful choices to pick, even if Hawke doesn't actually say those things to Anders. I still had to pick them in order for her to persue a romance with him.


I'm pretty sure the "I enjoy being hurt" line was said snarkily.

#64
Makeshift Riot

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MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Note: Funny you mention Jacob and Edward - I believe Twilight was once referenced by the developers on how good romances could be written. So, that's telling you something.


Wow..that's depressing.

Though it would explain why you can't go along with Anders without suffering from battered wife syndrome.


*headdesks*

Please point out one time Anders hits Hawke.. Apologizes and Hawke takes him back.


Because the only kind of abuse is the kind that leaves marks.

:/ Perhaps maybe you shouldn't be a **** then? I've had nothing but sweet Anders in every play I have romanced him in.

#65
Jenova65

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DeaHamlet wrote...

Okay, you can pretty much get rid of ALL romances.

You can kill Anders directly, you can get rid of him before that, he threatens to leave at some points if you don't help him. You can also kill him on the templar side during battle.

You can kill Fenris in battle if you side with the mages. You can let him be taken away by Danarius. You can even never pick him up.

You can let Isabela be taken by the Qun. Worse than death from what I heard in banter (oh Fenris, you are so informative!). You can choose never to pick her up. She can leave you for good once she gets her book. Plenty of ways to get rid of her.

You can kill Merrill in battle if you side with the templars. I don't know if she ever threatens to leave, I have never refused to do her missions.

Well you can't kill Isabela was my point. I didn't know you could kill Merrill, I think on the Merrill thread they were saying that you can't, I wouldn't know, because I don't kill any of them anyway (although Anders is getting it next time............ make Sebastian leave will you, you terrorist....... <_<;)
Either way being able to kill LI's always allows BioWare to disregard them *Oh, hello VS, how are you?* 
I don't mind if you can off them all.......... :P

#66
Sarah1281

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Well you can't kill Isabela was my point.

I think turning her over to the Qunari is a worse future.

#67
Jenova65

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Sarah1281 wrote...

Well you can't kill Isabela was my point.

I think turning her over to the Qunari is a worse future.

That's not really the point (+ I don't know but someone says she can escape from the Qunari?) either way that is by the by... You are thinking I mean in terms of the characters *lives*, and I am not. In that respect handing Fenris over to Danarius is a really evil thing to do........ Death would surely be kinder........ But I am talking in terms of the player.. us.. how we feel about the killability of a character and I think certain characters get better treatment. If you can kill one you should be able to kill the lot and make the game unwinable ;) At any rate, don't take my post too seriously I am mostly joking, lol.

#68
meganmeave

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Arlias wrote...

meganmeave wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
If you think that those who stay with Anders are unbalanced or have other issues that's one thing but those issues are simply NOT battered wife syndrome. I'd disagree that Anders is the dominant person in the relationship and furthermore the time between gathering the ingredients and blowing up the Chantry is probably less than a week but certainly no more than a couple of them. No extended period of time.

Just because you disagree with the choice to date Anders doesn't mean anyone who does has battered wife syndrome. There's nothing wrong with dating him. Staying with him post-Chantry is a little trickier but it still does not fit the classification of battered wife syndrome.


While I agree with your post, I can understand why people might make these kinds of hasty conclusions. The writers did put "Flirty" options in for Hawke that say stuff like, "I enjoy being hurt." when responding to Anders. Either this is clumsy writing or some kind of sly comment on the writer's part about the kinds of women who would romance a character like Anders. Either way, it's a little creepy, even if I don't think there is any semblance of battered wife syndrome in the Anders relationship.

I will have to say, this, more than anything else in act 1, made me leary of courting Anders in game. They were simply awful choices to pick, even if Hawke doesn't actually say those things to Anders. I still had to pick them in order for her to persue a romance with him.


I'm pretty sure the "I enjoy being hurt" line was said snarkily.

Snark doesn't really translate in text, which is what you choose. And no, obviously you don't say what you choose, I was merely pointing out that it is a little icky and not all that amusing. And if I recall, it happens twice when you flirt him. There are two seperate times you can choose to joke about being hurt by him. Though "choose" is the wrong word if you're wanting to romance him, since both times it's the "heart" choice.

I'll have to see on my second playthrough to be sure if my memory is correct. In any case, for me, the line didn't work the first go round. Snarky or not, it clearly left distaste in my mouth enough to comment on it.

Vent incoming:

That being said, I did continue the romance to completion, despite the morally reprehnsible actions. When Anders commits his terrorist act, I took a step back and looked at my character. She had lived, for all intents and purposes, with this man for three years, happily, with no complaint. Being so, I do not think my Hawke would be able to make the unfair determination to kill Anders for his crimes, or later, to leave him for it within hours of finding out about it. If the game had allowed us to continue for three years later, I think that it is more than likely such an emotional burden would be too much for that relationship to handle. I also don't think the decision to stick with Anders indicates battered wife syndrome, but rather an honest assesment of how you'd handle such a thing. I have a husband, and love him. He would never do such a thing, but if he did, I cannot honestly say I'd be the best judge and jury for him. Either I'd be furious, and want him dead immediately without a fair trial, or my own feelings would allow me to overlook the atrocities, at least for a time. Because in all honesty, people generally care more for their own than for people they don't know.

Now, all that being said, you might think I would say this was good writing because it really made me think. But I hated it. I don't play a video game to force myself to make such decisions. I don't read fiction to make myself feel bad because of what I would have done in the protagonists place. I don't enjoy playing a game where every option for every romance is one of moral ambiguity and doubt. But that's just me. And apparently the OP.

#69
SteelViper266

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fchopin wrote...

I am very disappointed with the romance options in DA2.

It's one of very few games that i play that i am not really interested in any of the characters.

I just use who i think will be the best for my combat team and don't really care what they say.

If Bethany was still around she would always be my main mage but we are forced to use idiots for mages because Bioware don't believe in options anymore.


Agreed

#70
monima

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Yeah definitly not just a gay problem.
Yes "normal" characters might not be as interesting to romance as the dramatic once. So I get what bioware is trying to achive. But there is crazy and there is CRAZY.

When Fenris is the best option, there is not much normal to go around.

#71
kumquats

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Sarah1281 wrote...

Well you can't kill Isabela was my point.

I think turning her over to the Qunari is a worse future.


You can kill Isabela. I was rivalmancing her and could kill her in the Blooming Rose Sequenz in Act 3 :P

#72
Jenova65

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kumquats wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well you can't kill Isabela was my point.

I think turning her over to the Qunari is a worse future.


You can kill Isabela. I was rivalmancing her and could kill her in the Blooming Rose Sequenz in Act 3 :P

Could you? As I say, I just read on *another* thread that Merrill and Isabela have plot armour. That's good then. Although someone should go and tell those guys they are wrong, lol. 
You should do it :D Since you have been there and worn the T-shirt............. ;)

#73
Sarah1281

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How do you manage that? I don't think I got that option but I had her at 100% platonic friend.

#74
KyleOrdrum

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I think the point being missed about the romance options here is that it does not create depth, but merely a different viewpoint. IRL, I have a friend I've known for years, who I know well enough to predict his actions. I also have a girlfriend who I've known for years and can fairly well predict her actions. That being said, I view my friend differently than his ex did, and I view my girlfriend differently than her friends do.

If you've known someone for a decade, you know them pretty well, and being in a relationship with said person or just being friends with them doesn't really change that. It only really changes the particular way in which you view that person.

When viewed in this light the romances were done quite well, though failed to really develop as the time went on. The game carried many markers of time passing, such as conversations with Hawke's mother, Varric, and Bodahn. Unfortunately the romances failed to show this, and this would seem like a failure to the game.

As well, not being interested in any of the romance options doesn't mean it was handled poorly. Many people often go for years without being in a relationship if the conditions aren't right. The game series will inevitably move forward, and maybe DA3 will have a romance option you as a player will be happy with. However, nitpicking every little piece apart leads to the changes seen between Morrowind and Oblivion, and I would rather the next game not take a backwards step in both writing and gameplay for the sake of "pretty SHINY!! graphics" and "buhhh...too hard, make easyer."

All I'm saying is please ask yourself before whining (not OP as much as others), if the problem is a matter of personal preference or actually a flaw in the game.

#75
Thiefy

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you know, i think i would have liked to have seen something like this for a guyxguy romance:

Image IPB

props to those who can figure out the characters here, though they aren't really unknown ^_^

of course i loved both fen and anders as straight romances, but maybe the guys who didn't like either would have liked a romance like the one i posted?