311 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkWarSoldier]

I have more of a connection to Hawke then the Warden because Hawke felt more human to me.

[CLime]

Warden, definitely. The distinction is entirely due to the origin stories. If Human Noble (or Human Mage, I suppose) had been the only option in DA:O, I'd give Hawke the advantage here.

As it is, being able to pick the background of your warden from six disparate options far an away trumps any decision DA2 offers in terms of establishing the character. I didn't play either the Warden or Hawke as myself, rather tried to create their own characters and make choices from there. Origin stories simply give you way more to work with.

[lady constance]

Narreneth wrote...

I got far more attached to Hawke than I did the Warden.

Also, for those saying you got to "decide how my Warden responded." No. You didn't. The intent behind every line in the game was chosen for you. You simply had to pick from a list. The responses of the characters in the world were set. For those who use the tired "I just imagine they didn't get what I said, that's why they reacted incorrectly" argument: you don't get to decide Leliana's personality. If you're so into "traditional" RPGs then you know what an NPC is. Not yours. The GM/DM/Storyteller decides all that. For all intents and purposes BioWare is/was your GM/DM/Storyteller. Quit deluding yourselves.

That said, if you prefer the silent protagonist more, I can't fault you for that. I can, however, fault your reasoning when it's based on false principles.

You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this. And we do get to change Leliana's personality somewhat (via hardening), but obviously we don't get to completely. She's not OUR character.

Modifié par lady constance, 21 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[The Brigand]

lady constance wrote...

You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this.

This. So much.

[Dareat]

The Warden hands down. Because he's not some character - he's me. I feel like I'm actually the Warden, that I'm actually fighting the Blight. Dragon Age 2 was... a bit too much. With all the Sandal going around overdoing "ENCHANTMENT!" and stuff, I felt BioWare was trying too hard to appease the audience. It totally took me out of the roleplaying aspect and made me remember I was playing a game. The scene where my Warden killed the Archdemon... I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. I just don't feel that sort of 'depth' with Hawke, is all I'm saying. Sure he has a voice. But in my opinion, the best protagonists are the ones that say a little and get a huge point across.

Which is why Warden from Sacred Ashes trailer (appearance of my Warden) will always be my favorite.

[Narreneth]

lady constance wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

I got far more attached to Hawke than I did the Warden.

Also, for those saying you got to "decide how my Warden responded." No. You didn't. The intent behind every line in the game was chosen for you. You simply had to pick from a list. The responses of the characters in the world were set. For those who use the tired "I just imagine they didn't get what I said, that's why they reacted incorrectly" argument: you don't get to decide Leliana's personality. If you're so into "traditional" RPGs then you know what an NPC is. Not yours. The GM/DM/Storyteller decides all that. For all intents and purposes BioWare is/was your GM/DM/Storyteller. Quit deluding yourselves.

That said, if you prefer the silent protagonist more, I can't fault you for that. I can, however, fault your reasoning when it's based on false principles.

You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this. And we do get to change Leliana's personality somewhat (via hardening), but obviously we don't get to completely. She's not OUR character.

You're completely missing the point.  Hawke says what you choose as well.  You only get to pick something within a certain set of parameters.  No, the tone to which you think your Warden would say something is not relevant.  What it comes down to is the intent and tone are chosen for you even with the textual response being the only thing you see.  The only difference is in the case of Hawke, there is a voice actor to act the line you chose.  You can make claims to the paraphrase being "not what I wanted," but there was never a time when I picked a response in DA2 and got something I wasn't expecting.  Sure, you can never predict the word for word dialogue, but that's really stepping out of rational argument and into a realm of arguing a point to justify an opinion.

As far as Leliana goes, that was just an example.  Yes, the characters in the world shape themselves a bit based on your behaviors, but that isn't what I was saying.  Months ago I got into a discussion with someone on the forums and they made the assertion that when they chose a dialogue option to be sarcastic (the example they gave was saying "Oooh I love shoes!" to Leliana) and the character they said it to takes it as polite and good-natured conversation (as Leliana does in DA:O in that instance) that he simply "imagines" Leliana as a stupid person.  The reason Leliana responded that way is not because he, in fact, misinterpreted the meaning on the line.  She responded like that because she's dumb.  Problem with that is, Leliana is not his character.  He doesn't get to decide if she's dumb.  In fact, especially in light of events with this game, we can say with certainty that Leliana is decidedly intelligent.  There's a difference between characters in the world responding to your influence and characters in the world being like you want them to suit your needs.

Ultimately what it comes down to is people are expecting video game RPGs to be like pen and paper RPGs and they just can't.  The freedom that exists in a pen and paper RPG is not possible to put into video games.  There never has been a game that presents that, and there likely never will be.  There are far too many variables to account for every single possible choice someone could make. 

[Narreneth]

The Brigand wrote...

lady constance wrote...

You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this.

This. So much.

No.  Just. No. 

[Jonp382]

The warden always felt like my character. Hawke never felt like my character. Thumbs down to the new dialog system.

[butch085]

warden, hands down i could make him/her into the person i felt i wanted him to be just by choosing his face yes the let you change a few things but he wasn't my creation.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

DeathStride wrote...

The game immersion is 10x more when there isn't a foreign voice saying things for you- things that weren't accurately represented by the dialog wheel paraphrase in the first place. So yeah, Warden was far more "me" than Hawke will ever be.

Yes, the Warden is far superior for me as well.

[oldmansavage]

The nature of how you chose dialogue for your warden made him infinitely more personable.  In DA:2 I might as well be playing kratos. 

[DarkNova50]

To be honest, I like them both for different types of situations.

In really tense, high stakes scenarios, I like Hawke's spunk and ability to just shrug everything off very nonchalantly.

But in terms of which one I cared more about, it would be my Warden, hands down. I really cared about how her life turned out, whether or not she was happy, who she ended up with, and so on.

So, overall, I guess I'd say I felt the Warden was more 'my' character.

Modifié par DarkNova50, 21 mars 2011 - 04:58 .

[lady constance]

Narreneth wrote...

lady constance wrote...

Narreneth wrote...

I got far more attached to Hawke than I did the Warden.

Also, for those saying you got to "decide how my Warden responded." No. You didn't. The intent behind every line in the game was chosen for you. You simply had to pick from a list. The responses of the characters in the world were set. For those who use the tired "I just imagine they didn't get what I said, that's why they reacted incorrectly" argument: you don't get to decide Leliana's personality. If you're so into "traditional" RPGs then you know what an NPC is. Not yours. The GM/DM/Storyteller decides all that. For all intents and purposes BioWare is/was your GM/DM/Storyteller. Quit deluding yourselves.

That said, if you prefer the silent protagonist more, I can't fault you for that. I can, however, fault your reasoning when it's based on false principles.

You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this. And we do get to change Leliana's personality somewhat (via hardening), but obviously we don't get to completely. She's not OUR character.

You're completely missing the point.  Hawke says what you choose as well.  You only get to pick something within a certain set of parameters.  No, the tone to which you think your Warden would say something is not relevant.  What it comes down to is the intent and tone are chosen for you even with the textual response being the only thing you see.  The only difference is in the case of Hawke, there is a voice actor to act the line you chose.  You can make claims to the paraphrase being "not what I wanted," but there was never a time when I picked a response in DA2 and got something I wasn't expecting.  Sure, you can never predict the word for word dialogue, but that's really stepping out of rational argument and into a realm of arguing a point to justify an opinion.

As far as Leliana goes, that was just an example.  Yes, the characters in the world shape themselves a bit based on your behaviors, but that isn't what I was saying.  Months ago I got into a discussion with someone on the forums and they made the assertion that when they chose a dialogue option to be sarcastic (the example they gave was saying "Oooh I love shoes!" to Leliana) and the character they said it to takes it as polite and good-natured conversation (as Leliana does in DA:O in that instance) that he simply "imagines" Leliana as a stupid person.  The reason Leliana responded that way is not because he, in fact, misinterpreted the meaning on the line.  She responded like that because she's dumb.  Problem with that is, Leliana is not his character.  He doesn't get to decide if she's dumb.  In fact, especially in light of events with this game, we can say with certainty that Leliana is decidedly intelligent.  There's a difference between characters in the world responding to your influence and characters in the world being like you want them to suit your needs.

Ultimately what it comes down to is people are expecting video game RPGs to be like pen and paper RPGs and they just can't.  The freedom that exists in a pen and paper RPG is not possible to put into video games.  There never has been a game that presents that, and there likely never will be.  There are far too many variables to account for every single possible choice someone could make. 

 I'm quite aware we are able to choose what Hawke says  I never stated otherwise. Now, if you would refer back to the point I bolded in your response, I will mention that many people have picked options where Hawke responded in a way that was completely unexpected. In fact, I believe that is one of the main complaints with the dialogue wheel in both DA2 and Mass Effect. My lady Hawke has been rude when I had expected her to be kind and tactful.

But I will agree with you when you say there is a set tone behind each response in Origins. If that was your original point, I apologize for not getting it

As for Leliana, I'm pretty sure I was in agreement when I said she's not your character, yes? I don't expect her to be molded to my standards - I expect her to be her own person.

[Warheadz]

lady constance wrote...
You still decide what your Warden says >.> Simply because people react in a way we don't expect doesn't change this.

I agree with this. I too chose in Origins a couple of times a dialogue option I thought was witty or humorous, and then some characters got offended. That's the moment when I thought: "****, this game is awesome!". To me, it felt like the most realistic dialogue I have ever seen in a game. Or are you all such social superheroes that you are never misunderstood?

Modifié par Warheadz, 21 mars 2011 - 08:01 .

[AngelicMachinery]

I was just thinking about this, I have no concrete reasoning behind it. But, after I finished DAO I always was wondering what the warden would next, with Hawke... the character just felt like,,, some lady, a cool lady... but, not my lady. *Waggles eyebrows comically.*

[sonsonthebia07]

I feel much more connected to Hawke so far than I ever did with my warden(s). I blame my crude lack of imagination. I could do it if everyone was mute and text-based everything in dialogue bubbles, but to have one character just blandly stare at everything while the world around you is full of character just doesn't work for me.

Not that the Origins way is bad, I just prefer a voiced PC personally.

[astrallite]

The Warden...you had more choices of relationships, more choices to make in the game to define your character. Hell just look at the long list of Warden choices you made from the Origins import save...you can count on one hand how many choices you make in DA2.

[KLUME777]

The Warden hands down, without a thought.
This is due to no VO, which makes it a lot more personal so that i actually care about my character.

+my Warden looked way better.

I honestly did not care about Hawke.

[ninja1900001990]

the wardan for me...

[AkiKishi]

oldmansavage wrote...

The nature of how you chose dialogue for your warden made him infinitely more personable.  In DA:2 I might as well be playing kratos. 

That would have made combat a lot more fun.

[arathor_87]

DarkWarSoldier wrote...

I have more of a connection to Hawke then the Warden because Hawke felt more human to me.

Maybe this is because you can only play as a human in DA2? In DA:O you can also play as a dwarf or elf, and if would be weird if you felt like a human! ; )

No, I'm just joking (Yes it was a bad one). I understand your point even thou' I won't agree. The Warden is superior for me..

[TheBroodfather]

The Warden for me. Since DA2 takes place over 10 years, with huge time skips, it felt like I was just looking in on Hawke at key moments in his story. I pretty much felt like Justice inside Anders, except instead of being triggered by templars I was triggered by important plot events. With the Warden, I was in control of pretty much every aspect of his life for the entire length of the story.

[crotti]

The Warden... or Wardens
I have more than 20 characters xD
I created two female Hawkes... but they aren't "my" characters. "

[roflchoppaz]

I was more attached to Hawke, personally. When someone spoke to the Warden it felt like they were talking to a wall. D|
I prefer voiced PCs or at least Gordon Freeman-style mute over this kind of dialogue system.

Modifié par roflchoppaz, 21 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[Baldrick67]

If you need to hear your character speak lines in a RPG to "immerse" yourself in the character you must have little immagination.

By reading the actual reply in DAO I was able to fully weigh the response in my mind. In DA2 Hawke doesn't even say what is on the wheel - very confusing.