48 réponses à ce sujet

[maegi46]

We saw it in DA:O and now again in DA2. The player as a blood mage is a far cry from what an NPC is when they choose the "forbidden path". Looking back to DA:O taking Jowan as our first example. He finally reveals himself to be one at the end of the circle tower quest by cutting his hand and the first enchanter and Gregoir are thrown to the ground violently as Jowan makes his escape. Then Duncan comes along and whisks the soon to be mage warden away to become a Grey Warden. Later Jowan can cast a blood ritual if you choose to sacrifice the countess to save her son vs going to the Circle for help with the possessed boy. Most blood mages you come across if not all can and do summon demons to fight for them and you have to defeat them while fighting the blood mage(s)

The same is true in DA2 as their are many blood mages in this game as well. Granted, most of them turn to it because of Meredith's way of handling mages as prisoners. Let's face it though, even the mages in Ferelden were prisoners. Never able to leave the circle tower walls for fear they might run. Well duh! Who wouldn't want to run and have a chance at a semi normal life? Except for the ones that were tranquil or totally brainwashed into believing what the Chantry has told them.

The blood mages in DA2 all have undead minions and shades and demons that come in waves to defend them, I can only assume they are summoning these abominations. So the question becomes then, why can't Hawke summon demons when he or she chooses to become a blood mage too? Obviously the models and animations are in the game. So creating a Summon Shade or Summon Sloth Demon or whatever wouldn't have taken a lot of extra effort to put into the game.

Hell even give it a chance that whenever you do summon a more powerful demon there is a percentage chance that you might become possessed yourself, ie. become an abomination until killed. I just don't understand or think it flows coherently that all other blood mages have these "extreme" powers that the player never gets. Merril can bring Flemeth back from the dead. Repair the Eluvian and attempt to save her people....we all know how that turned out.

Decimus summons hoardes of undead. Tarohne summons Desire demons and Sloth demons and shades. It's not like only a few blood mages can do this. Seems like they all can except Hawke.

The other thing that gets me is the whole lore of the game being deathly afraid of blood mages and even apostates. Yet mage Hawke can cast spells and let's be honest, who can't tell a mage when they see one in a robe with a huge staff slung across their backs? Anders and Merril and Hawke all walk around town in front of the Templars....they could have made it a little more believable by having you "change" to town clothes or something while in the town. Kind of like in Act 3 when you wear your comfy home mansion clothes, which I hate btw, but thats another thread.

You even cast spells in front of Knight Captain Cullen when you do the quest to see where Keran is and confront him accosting recruit Wilmod out on the wounded coast, yet he never says a word about you being an apostate or a blood mage, if you chose that specialization. Things that make you go hmmm.

Opinions?

Modifié par maegi46, 20 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[Everwarden]

maegi46 wrote...
Opinions?

I don't care as much about the mechanics as I do the fact that being a blood mage should really change the entire storyline as a mage. I mean, if you use blood magic to take out the Arishok you'd think that would reflect in dialogue. 

Also, the blood magic spells in DA2 felt really underpowered. 

[Talogrungi]

Or a real Templar, for that matter. My 2nd playthrough (Warrior) just picked Templar as a specification on the basis that I liked the bonuses and thought the abilities would be interesting .. but then it dawned on me that .. I was a bloody templar and apostate mages were treating me like I was the second coming of Jebus and would save them all.

[maegi46]

Good point too Talo. It just takes away from the immersion when things like that happen. I suppose the same could be said for DA:O to an extent , but at least we had the "but he or she is a warden" argument there to excuse why we could be an apostate in the open and whoever was with us got the same exemptions.

Everwarden, agreed, the spells do feel really underpowered for a blood mage to be so feared and locked away.

[TobiTobsen]

Just tell yourself that Hawke is only using the "safe" blood mage stuff. All the ofther spells and summons seem to have rather nasty consequences for the caster

[Fishy]

It's just a gameplay mechanic.But i understand the point.
For the same reason dead body dissapear and you can rain fire inside any house .

Seriously if you blasted fireball inside your house you think that your neighbor would notice it or that the house would burn.Logic can go so far in a video game.

Sorry my warrior can't open a wooden door and need a rogue.
Hmm.

Modifié par Suprez30, 20 mars 2011 - 07:06 .

[Lulia]

When i played my warrior and mage i did wonder what the effect of choosing from the templar and bloodmage tree might have, so i didn't touch them just incase lol.

If they didn't do anything, then they shouldn't have included them although i can understand why re the bloodmage.

A bloodmage isn't simply a mage that summons demon. My understanding is that bloodmages effectively become demons. They have to submit themselves to the will of the demon for the power in return. They are no longer in control of themselves which is why they are so dangerous... if the mages still had control, then using demon power would just be a variation in which elemental force was used.

So, if you could actually become a bloodmage - you would no longer be Hawke, you'd be a demon in Hawkes body iykwim?

[LobselVith8]

Everwarden wrote...

I don't care as much about the mechanics as I do the fact that being a blood mage should really change the entire storyline as a mage. I mean, if you use blood magic to take out the Arishok you'd think that would reflect in dialogue. 

Also, the blood magic spells in DA2 felt really underpowered. 

It's odd that the Arishok never comments on Hawke being a mage, considering how they're viewed according to the Qun, but that's a problem throughout the story. Hawke can use magic to fight at the Gallows in front of guards, and nobody comments on him being an apostate any more than they do a year later when he's fighting people in broad daylight. I suppose you could RP that he's using blood magic to 'nudge' people into thinking that he's a sanctioned mage, but I'm surprised this wasn't taken into account for when making a game that primarily focused on the dicotomy between the templars and the mages.

[BubbleDncr]

I think Meredith says at one point that because you're the Champion of Kirkwall, she's ignored the fact that you're an apostate.

But I was a Blood Mage from level 7 on, and I only ever had dialog options that sounded shocked that people would use blood magi (ie, Merril). And I was romancing Anders, who was always saying how blood magic was evil. But here I was, stabbing myself through the chest with my staff every single battle. Not just knifing my hand like in Origins...I can see people possibly missing seeing that...but STABBING MYSELF THROUGH THE CHEST WITH A GIANT STAFF. How is everyone missing this?!?!?!

I get that it would be crazy for the writers to put in new dialog based on you specializations (cos if they did it for one, everyone would want them to do it for them all), but it kind of does break the storytelling a little bit. I kind of thing it may be better to just not offer that specialization.

[Ser-Michael]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I think Meredith says at one point that because you're the Champion of Kirkwall, she's ignored the fact that you're an apostate.

But I was a Blood Mage from level 7 on, and I only ever had dialog options that sounded shocked that people would use blood magi (ie, Merril). And I was romancing Anders, who was always saying how blood magic was evil. But here I was, stabbing myself through the chest with my staff every single battle. Not just knifing my hand like in Origins...I can see people possibly missing seeing that...but STABBING MYSELF THROUGH THE CHEST WITH A GIANT STAFF. How is everyone missing this?!?!?!

I get that it would be crazy for the writers to put in new dialog based on you specializations (cos if they did it for one, everyone would want them to do it for them all), but it kind of does break the storytelling a little bit. I kind of thing it may be better to just not offer that specialization.

...Which would lead to people complaining why the Blood Mage was removed...

[maegi46]

Bubble, yeah that's a little hard to miss isn't it? LOL IDK I'm not expecting them to rewrite the whole game, but for instance on the Wilmod mission, Cullen could have simply acknowledged it by saying "Look, I saw you and your apostate friends casting spells, but you did save my ass" "I'll be keeping an eye on you" or something to that effect...

[allankles]

Lulia wrote...

When i played my warrior and mage i did wonder what the effect of choosing from the templar and bloodmage tree might have, so i didn't touch them just incase lol.

If they didn't do anything, then they shouldn't have included them although i can understand why re the bloodmage.

A bloodmage isn't simply a mage that summons demon. My understanding is that bloodmages effectively become demons. They have to submit themselves to the will of the demon for the power in return. They are no longer in control of themselves which is why they are so dangerous... if the mages still had control, then using demon power would just be a variation in which elemental force was used.

So, if you could actually become a bloodmage - you would no longer be Hawke, you'd be a demon in Hawkes body iykwim?

Bloodmagic attracts demons or weakens the fade somehow, but there is no direct correlation between using blood magic and becoming an abomination. The demonic transformation is more to do with perhaps using lethal blood magic which weakens the fade and makes a (possible maddened) mage susceptible to demon possession.

From my understanding blood magic is frowned upon because of the cost it exacts on the caster or the caster's blood pool (which is often a non consenting victim). It is also frowned upon because it provides more power than regular magic because it draws power from the material world rather than through spirits from the Fade.

Because of the power and potential power of blood magic most mages can become intoxicated with the power, perhaps making them power mad and open to demons. In Tevinter the more powerful mages have no problems with abominations. Bloodmagic is human based so that's where its attraction comes from, there's no balance or limiting of the power as it doesn't go through the fade.

[maegi46]

Interesting theory allankles. All I know is compared to DA:O it's very underpowered now. Maybe I'm just using it wrong?

[Sharn01]

With the exception of blood magic every specialization can be writtn off as learning the techniques, one does not have to join the templars to learn their fighting style for instance.

[maegi46]

Sharn. what exception does blood magic have? I'm confused...

[AlexXIV]

maegi46 wrote...

Sharn. what exception does blood magic have? I'm confused...

It's forbidden.

[KAAurious]

That was a bit of a shame. Even in DA:A if you had Anders become a Blood Mage there was a minor amount of dialogue to reflect that. In DA2 where the entire world seemed to revolve around Blood Mages and Templars there was no dialogue changes to reflect your character path. Hawke is a templar and Anders is a runaway mage? It's cool. No harm done. Maybe they did it so that the rogues wouldn't feel left out.

[Sharn01]

maegi46 wrote...

Sharn. what exception does blood magic have? I'm confused...

Blood magic is the only specialization that could potentially change how the story unfolds, you can learn a templars techniques without becoming an official templar, you cant learn blood magic without becoming an actual blood mage.

[MJF JD]

it is also disappointing that there is no story to us unlocking specializations in DA2, in DAO you had to make a deal with a demon the first time you unlocked blood mage.

[RazorrX]

IMO Blood magic should not have been an option for Hawke. The game is linear anyways, so preventing this would have fallen in line with the story as a whole. A new tree could have been created with a different school or something.

Same thing as Merril was not allowed the healing tree, or you could not knife Anders in the eye when you found out he was an abomination. From a story stand point, are you not TRYING to hide from the Templars? I mean hanging out with Abominations and Blood Mages does not seem to be the smart option.

The whole game was showing how mages were going all eeeevil and using blood magic. Letting Hawke use blood magic and having ZERO consequences is bad story telling. It is like saying "blood magic is actually okay, its just they are using BAD blood magic." When according to the chantry ALL blood magic is evil and brands you Malificar.

But then the game ignored your use of magic all together anyway.

[Pileyourbodies]

As soon as you summon a demon with blood magic you go away and the demon replaces you.

[TexasToast712]

Hawke and the Warden arent abominations like most of the blood mages in Kirkwall. Most blood mages learn it from a demon who then possesses them as its reward. Hawke learned Blood Magic from an unknown source and the Warden gives Connor to the Demon as his payment to learn Blood Magic.

[TexasToast712]

RazorrX wrote...

IMO Blood magic should not have been an option for Hawke. The game is linear anyways, so preventing this would have fallen in line with the story as a whole. A new tree could have been created with a different school or something.

Same thing as Merril was not allowed the healing tree, or you could not knife Anders in the eye when you found out he was an abomination. From a story stand point, are you not TRYING to hide from the Templars? I mean hanging out with Abominations and Blood Mages does not seem to be the smart option.

The whole game was showing how mages were going all eeeevil and using blood magic. Letting Hawke use blood magic and having ZERO consequences is bad story telling. It is like saying "blood magic is actually okay, its just they are using BAD blood magic." When according to the chantry ALL blood magic is evil and brands you Malificar.

But then the game ignored your use of magic all together anyway.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Blood Magic. It is just using your (or others! BAD!) blood instead of Lyrium to power spells. The power to control the mind of others is the real danger of Blood Magic however.

[Lithuasil]

The way I understood it, all blood magic is demonic, and all blood magic is a kind of summoning.
Maybe I'm completely off here, but for all I know, doesn't it work like "you use the blood as a lure to get something from the fade to do the job for you", and that's the reason why everyone becomes so much more powerful, once they go bloodmagic - because they only use a fraction of their own power for every spell, with the majority coming directly from the fade?

[NKKKK]

TexasToast712 wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

IMO Blood magic should not have been an option for Hawke. The game is linear anyways, so preventing this would have fallen in line with the story as a whole. A new tree could have been created with a different school or something.

Same thing as Merril was not allowed the healing tree, or you could not knife Anders in the eye when you found out he was an abomination. From a story stand point, are you not TRYING to hide from the Templars? I mean hanging out with Abominations and Blood Mages does not seem to be the smart option.

The whole game was showing how mages were going all eeeevil and using blood magic. Letting Hawke use blood magic and having ZERO consequences is bad story telling. It is like saying "blood magic is actually okay, its just they are using BAD blood magic." When according to the chantry ALL blood magic is evil and brands you Malificar.

But then the game ignored your use of magic all together anyway.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Blood Magic. It is just using your (or others! BAD!) blood instead of Lyrium to power spells. The power to control the mind of others is the real danger of Blood Magic however.

Yes, Hawke and the Warden only uses the most basic spells, but I don't see how summoning Demons and corpses relate to that.

Also in the last game, summong corpses had nothing to do with Blodo Magic.