832 réponses à ce sujet

[AndrahilAdrian]

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

[augustburnt]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

Or he could make a sequal to a game people actually liked.

[Ellestor]

augustburnt wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

Or he could make a sequal to a game people actually liked.

Note that he held the same position on that game.

[Nick Fox]

augustburnt wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

Or he could make a sequal to a game people actually liked.

Why, that makes to much sense. This guy wants to make games for people who doesnt like rpg's. Or maybe it was the greed that struck him and BW.

*Facepalm*

[TheMadCat]

Ellestor wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

However, I do think that, as a genre, if RPGs can't evolve and can't change -- and I know people yell at me for daring to use the word "evolve" -- but if they can't change or experiment, then the genre itself is going to stagnate.

Looking at the state of the FPS, RTS, and MMO genres, I'm forced to agree. Experiment away.

Don't play enough MMO's so can't really make a call there, but you're looking through an incredibly small window if you think RTS's and FPS's have stagnated.

[WhiteThunder]

I take offense at everyone making disparaging remarks about the ages and tastes of the "Mass Audience" BioWare is seeking I'm 17, I play shooters and sports games, as well as WarCraft 3 (I'm not a huge Starcraft fan). I even own a Wii. Dragon Age Origins was my first RPG (except for Pokemon), and I loved it. It was exciting and strategic, and the isometric view made combat feel tactical. I'm almost at the Deep Roads for DA2, but so far I am completely ambivalent towards the game. IMO, the gameplay is worse due to the lack of an isometric camera, or even a detachable one, and I don't give a **** about the story or companions so far: I had a deeper connection with Soris and Shianni than I do with Bethany after 20 hours of gameplay. The encounter design on Nightmare makes the game feel cheap rather than difficult like DAO was at first. I played Mass Effect, ME2 and KOTOR because DAO was such an amazing RPG, not because it was "accessible" etc. It is not as exciting as an action game, and it's not as involving or tactical as even Mass Effect 2. I don't hate it. I just don't care what happens next.

So congratulations Mr. Laidlaw: Even a CoD playing teenager who loves "awesome" things happening at the push of a button doesn't like your game.

[ihateea2]

Evolving is one thing.

Dumbing down games to appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to increase market share is something else.

[dheer]

Ellestor wrote...
Note that he held the same position on that game.

He didn't take over as lead until they focused on the console versions of DA:O. The PC version was already finished and ready to go at that point.

Modifié par dheer, 22 mars 2011 - 01:15 .

[Galad22]

Ellestor wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

Or he could make a sequal to a game people actually liked.

Note that he held the same position on that game.

Wasn't Brent Knowles lead designer in origins?

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

I don't care what others think, I like this game. I don't have to be a fanatic to see some redeeming aspects of DA2. There were times in Origins that I thought were boring, and there were times that I thought it was awesome.

However, the Rose-tinted Glasses syndrome is common enough in my generation to make me despair of the state of the industry. I certainly don't think Origins was perfect, I remember a good deal of complaints and moaning about how Origins was supposedly "the end of the world" for RPGs. I knew more than one person who whined when the Witcher came out, saying "It will suck, its a crap game, Too Action-y, blah-blah-blah", etc.

[Ellestor]

TheMadCat wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

However, I do think that, as a genre, if RPGs can't evolve and can't change -- and I know people yell at me for daring to use the word "evolve" -- but if they can't change or experiment, then the genre itself is going to stagnate.

Looking at the state of the FPS, RTS, and MMO genres, I'm forced to agree. Experiment away.

Don't play enough MMO's so can't really make a call there, but you're looking through an incredibly small window if you think RTS's and FPS's have stagnated.

Maybe. Can't really agree or disagree without examples of what I might be missing.

Modifié par Ellestor, 22 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[WhiteThunder]

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

However, the Rose-tinted Glasses syndrome is common enough in my generation to make me despair of the state of the industry.

I'm not wearing any rose glasses I played Awakening the week before DA2 came out to finish off my horribly OP Arcane Warrior/Bloodmage character.  I die a lot more often in DA2 than I did playing Awakening, but not because the combat is more difficult or requires more tactical thinking.  I'm dying more often because the enemies have enormous health reserves and shorter cooldowns on Health Potions to make up for their atrocious AI.  I'm dying more often because a second wave of enemies pops out of nowhere and kills my mages.  I even die because I wasted an AOE because I couldn't aim without a detachable camera (switching characters while aiming is a poor subsitute).  The combat in DA2 nightmare isn't more difficult, just more frustrating.

Modifié par WhiteThunder, 22 mars 2011 - 01:32 .

[Kenthen]

TheMadCat wrote...

Ellestor wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

However, I do think that, as a genre, if RPGs can't evolve and can't change -- and I know people yell at me for daring to use the word "evolve" -- but if they can't change or experiment, then the genre itself is going to stagnate.

Looking at the state of the FPS, RTS, and MMO genres, I'm forced to agree. Experiment away.

Don't play enough MMO's so can't really make a call there, but you're looking through an incredibly small window if you think RTS's and FPS's have stagnated.

I wouldn't say that either MMO's, RTS's or FPS's have stagnated. Not at the moment at least. There's always a bit of "copy the other guys" but that has happened in every genre since I was a kid.
I'd say the FPS genre is an example of a genre that DID stagnate at one point though. There's a reason why we, once upon a time in the long, long time ago had a phrase such as "Doom Clone" in our vocabulary.

[egervari]

If he wants to make an RPG that isn't quite like Origins... then why not make a new brand to try out your "experiment".

I mean, wasn't that what Mass Effect was all about? Merging 3rd person shooting with RPG elements? That's an experiment.

With Dragon age... it didn't make any attempt at being anything other than a modern version of Baldur's Gate style of games. It should have kept doing that - because this was your BRAND.

If you want to go off and make different kind of RPGs... fine... do that... just make them different brands.

[WJC3688]

I agree with Laidlaw's sentiment that a series/franchise has to change and provide new experiences to its fanbase, but it shouldn't steer so far from its roots that it loses the aspects that made it attractive in the first place, either. It's all about finding a balance where you can offer something new while retaining enough of the old that you don't alienate the established fanbase. Seems like DA2 failed at that, IMO it was a bit too ambitious and somewhat poorly executed to boot.

[Monica83]

If the want stop to make RPG don't ruin a beloved universe like dragon age origins but start a new franchise.....
I find stupid make rpg's that like at people that dont like rpgs....

[Dark Specie]

egervari wrote...

If he wants to make an RPG that isn't quite like Origins... then why not make a new brand to try out your "experiment".

Because people might not buy it then? Or not as many, at least...  People are much more cautious when it comes to a totally new brand, whereas they're more likely to go straight for a popular, already established brand which already has a large fanbase. It's a risk, because you risk alienating the core fanbase from the first game of course, but you ensure a certain profit margin by doing that...

[The Minority]

Guys. Change happens. Deal with it.

Or go cry yourself to sleep tonight.

[Monica83]

The Minority wrote...

Guys. Change happens. Deal with it.

Or go cry yourself to sleep tonight.

Gwahhhhhhhhh they told me the game is horribleee..... gwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Fanboysm-_-

[Marionetten]

So to prevent this stagnation we have to make everything be like Mass Effect and completely homogenize the genre? No thanks. It'd be one of thing if they actually did something different with the Dragon Age franchise instead of retrofitting it with Mass Effect's unhealthy focus on cinematic presentation.

[The Minority]

Monica83 wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Guys. Change happens. Deal with it.

Or go cry yourself to sleep tonight.

Gwahhhhhhhhh they told me the game is horribleee..... gwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Fanboysm-_-

Seems like today on these forums you're either a troll or a fanboy.

Why can't we all get along????

[Eternal Phoenix]

CoD is a shooter. Don't compare it to DA2. If you must compare anything, try Dystany Warriors but that comparison would fail because DA2 contains dialogue, conversations and there is still quite a bit of running about and not fighting unless you travel at night.

[Galad22]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

well excuse him for trying to make a game more people will enjoy. Jeez.

I honestly believe he succeeded in making a game that less people will enjoy.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Strange. The people who hate DA2 are still here...come on, if you hate it, write a review and move along. There are more important things in life than games getting changed. Even your Skyrim has been changed where they've removed the classes.

[Galad22]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Strange. The people who hate DA2 are still here...come on, if you hate it, write a review and move along. There are more important things in life than games getting changed. Even your Skyrim has been changed where they've removed the classes.

Bioware people have said many times that they expect feedback. I have never bothered to give it before because I always liked Biowares games, well expect NWN.

However this time I didn't like their game, thus I am here, giving feedback.