832 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

The idea that everything has to change dramaticly is redicolous....
The simple fork hasn't changed in hunderds of years. What works, works.

Polishing here and there, making small tweaks and improvements..OK
If you want to be bold and experiment - sure, create a new IP and do it. Create a spin-off series. But you don't do it with an established setting.

Stagnation?
Nah...there's crap and excellent stuff in every genre (more or less). I had more fun  with Crysis than any other FPS combined. That's new (ish).
At the same time, I had more fun (read: excellent experience) with BG than all other RPG's.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Meltemph wrote...

But one of my favorite aspects of DA:O was the combat.

Eh... DAO's gameplay was so slow and obnoxiously easy, was hard to get into after the 1st play-through. Sure you could pause, but the game lacked any real tactical forthought in the fights. It was essentially, "pick the abilities you want to use". On nightmare less then a handful of fights required you to pause more then a couple times.

With DA2, you actually have to keep pausing the game on hard/nightmare if you want to actually do a proficient job in combat. DAO was just to simple in terms of the abilities you used in the fights. I at least felt challenged with DA2.

You do realise the reason you need to pause often in DA2 is because the combat is so much faster?
Not because it's more tactical or harder, but simply because of the pace, giving orders wihout pausing is too slow.

DA2 combat sucks incredibly.

[December Man]

I didn't like playing RPGs (except maybe Fallout) until I played DA: Origins. Broadening the audience by casualization is not the way dear Bioware. DA:O was so amazing, it made a RPG player out of me. Go figure.

[Nozybidaj]

Sithlord715 wrote...

It's people like this Mike Laidlaw that have no right to be in a company such as Bioware, let alone a lead game designer. I bet you're real proud of yourself, aren't you Mikey? Creating the lowest rated (and arguably the most hated) Bioware RPG of all time. Nice "evolving" there chief

People like him, who care nothing about the people, and just listen to their corporate bosses (aka, EA) are the ones who are destroying the video game community

Whoa now, lets not hang the guy just yet. He's just towing the corporate line, using all the buzzwords the EA PR department told him to use in the interview.

That interview though did make a few things clear, reading between the lines. They are "evolving" their games for people who don't like rpg's, bascially saying they aren't going to be making rpg's anymore. They don't want to "encapsulate" their fanbase, saying more streamlining and dumbing down incoming as they pursue the CoD crowd even more.

Like it or not It's pretty clear where they are headed.

[shyzny]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sithlord715 wrote...

It's people like this Mike Laidlaw that have no right to be in a company such as Bioware, let alone a lead game designer. I bet you're real proud of yourself, aren't you Mikey? Creating the lowest rated (and arguably the most hated) Bioware RPG of all time. Nice "evolving" there chief

People like him, who care nothing about the people, and just listen to their corporate bosses (aka, EA) are the ones who are destroying the video game community

Whoa now, lets not hang the guy just yet. He's just towing the corporate line, using all the buzzwords the EA PR department told him to use in the interview.

That interview though did make a few things clear, reading between the lines. They are "evolving" their games for people who don't like rpg's, bascially saying they aren't going to be making rpg's anymore. They don't want to "encapsulate" their fanbase, saying more streamlining and dumbing down incoming as they pursue the CoD crowd even more.

Like it or not It's pretty clear where they are headed.

if thats really true then I and alot of people will be done with them.  hope the new crowd works out for yah Bioware, was nice knowing.

[TEWR]

Galad22 wrote...

MJRick wrote...

Please the "core audience" just holds bioware back telling them to making the same game over and over again.

So since we don't want bioware to make arcade fighting games we are telling them to make same game over and over again?

You can't make rpgs for people who don't like rpgs.

by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

[dheer]

Nozybidaj wrote...
That interview though did make a few things clear, reading between the lines. They are "evolving" their games for people who don't like rpg's, bascially saying they aren't going to be making rpg's anymore. They don't want to "encapsulate" their fanbase, saying more streamlining and dumbing down incoming as they pursue the CoD crowd even more.

That is why we need someone new in charge of the direction of the series. We've seen the road he wants Dragon Age to travel down and it's filled with mediocrity.

There's so much talent on the DA team that seems to be going to waste with this leadership. You can see they really tried to make DA2 the best they could with what little they were given.

[Galad22]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

Rpgs that I liked were made for fans of rpgs, not for people who only enjoy shooters or something.

This is what I meant, people who like rpgs enjoy them because they are somewhat complex.

By making pseudo rpgs you annoy those people and might not get much people who enjoy simpler games.

[AkiKishi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

I like stories.  RPGs used to have the best ones. I've noticed recently thats less the case Uncharted is not an RPG but the story gripped me , carried me through some of the more frustrating elements because I wanted to see the story unfold.

The most shocking ending and opening I've recently seen ironically belong to FPS games. But they are still very much FPS games, not "dumbed down" for an RPG player.

That's the critical difference and where Bioware I feel is going astray.

[TEWR]

Galad22 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

Rpgs that I liked were made for fans of rpgs, not for people who only enjoy shooters or something.

This is what I meant, people who like rpgs enjoy them because they are somewhat complex.

By making pseudo rpgs you annoy those people and might not get much people who enjoy simpler games.

I happen to know a lot of people who enjoy both shooters and RPGs. And how do you know that the RPGs that you liked were made solely for the RPG fans? How do you know there wasn't some ulterior motive to get part of a new fanbase, even if it was never explicitly stated (like Bioware did I think)?

There is no rulebook on what constitutes an RPG. Because it varies. It's all opinion on what's a true RPG and what isn't. I see DA2 as a true RPG, albeit with its' flaws. But then again, all video games have their flaws. These flaws don't make a game not among its genre. They only diminish the quality of how amazing it could have been.

And someone should not be excluded from playing RPGs just because all they've played were shooters. Maybe by playing what you call a "pseudo rpg" they discover the "true rpgs".

[TEWR]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

I like stories.  RPGs used to have the best ones. I've noticed recently thats less the case Uncharted is not an RPG but the story gripped me , carried me through some of the more frustrating elements because I wanted to see the story unfold.

The most shocking ending and opening I've recently seen ironically belong to FPS games. But they are still very much FPS games, not "dumbed down" for an RPG player.

That's the critical difference and where Bioware I feel is going astray.

why do I have the feeling this is referring to Black Ops?

[Taleroth]

I support changes to RPGs (see signature for my philosophy). I have issues with elements of Dragon Age 2 and Bioware's design philosophy in general. The need for change is not among them.

Frankly, I would not buy Baldur's Gate 2 if it were released in this day and age. Unless it also included Wild Mages.

[Galad22]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I happen to know a lot of people who enjoy both shooters and RPGs. And how do you know that the RPGs that you liked were made solely for the RPG fans? How do you know there wasn't some ulterior motive to get part of a new fanbase, even if it was never explicitly stated (like Bioware did I think)?

There is no rulebook on what constitutes an RPG. Because it varies. It's all opinion on what's a true RPG and what isn't. I see DA2 as a true RPG, albeit with its' flaws. But then again, all video games have their flaws. These flaws don't make a game not among its genre. They only diminish the quality of how amazing it could have been.

And someone should not be excluded from playing RPGs just because all they've played were shooters. Maybe by playing what you call a "pseudo rpg" they discover the "true rpgs".

Right I can't know if they had an ulterior motive!

I don't see DA2 as an rpg, it is a personal opinion.

And sure they shouldn't be exluded, but they should find rpgs for themselves, rpgs shouldn't be made simpler for these people.

Look I am fairly sure we are going to disagree with this.

[moilami]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

I like stories.  RPGs used to have the best ones. I've noticed recently thats less the case Uncharted is not an RPG but the story gripped me , carried me through some of the more frustrating elements because I wanted to see the story unfold.

The most shocking ending and opening I've recently seen ironically belong to FPS games. But they are still very much FPS games, not "dumbed down" for an RPG player.

That's the critical difference and where Bioware I feel is going astray.

Very well said. You are the first I have seen here seeing that.

Other games than RPGs can have better stories and other games than RPGs can have better combat.

In the meanwhile RPGs are becoming worst of two worlds while tossing into the bin the diversity and complexity they used to have not to forget freedom of choise.

These pseudo RPGs are "lite everything".


Edit: In other words dumbed down in many ways, something what peole refuse to admit.

Modifié par moilami, 22 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[AkiKishi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
by that logic, before you discovered RPGs you didn't like them. Then someone made an RPG that you like, so you changed from not liking RPGs to liking RPGs. which means you're wrong (said in all due respect)

I like stories.  RPGs used to have the best ones. I've noticed recently thats less the case Uncharted is not an RPG but the story gripped me , carried me through some of the more frustrating elements because I wanted to see the story unfold.

The most shocking ending and opening I've recently seen ironically belong to FPS games. But they are still very much FPS games, not "dumbed down" for an RPG player.

That's the critical difference and where Bioware I feel is going astray.

why do I have the feeling this is referring to Black Ops?

No idea, it refers to Killzone 3(ending) Homefront(opening). I don't like real war FPS games, it's just a personal thing, see enough of it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 22 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[Taleroth]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I like stories.  RPGs used to have the best ones.

I find that adventure games had the best ones.  Which is why some were trying to redirect the genre into "interactive fiction."  Which could set me rambling off-topic.  Action adventure games tend to have picked up the torch of being a good storytelling medium, with adventure games being not quite where they once were.

[TEWR]

more than likely we will disagree on this galad22. DA2 is flawed with enemies being too easily killed, but if Bioware does in fact listen to us (which they say they do and I believe it), they'll make the enemies in DA3 tougher to kill. However I do want to keep the more fluid battle attacks of DA2 in DA3, save for a few over the top things (damn chunky explosions. It's like a dragon threw up a bunch of people)


@bobsmith: ah. Because Black Ops has a mind**** ending, so that's what led me to believe it. I like both FPS games and RPGs, though I don't even recall which one I discovered first.


Would Pokemon count as an RPG?

[AkiKishi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Would Pokemon count as an RPG?

In the broadest sense yes. People of a certain age group tend to underestimate just how deep Pokemon is because it's cutesy.

Breeding the perfect team is actually incredibly complex and there is a lot of theory crafting written on the subject.

Taleroth wrote...
 I find that adventure games had the best ones.  Which is why some were trying to redirect the genre into "interactive fiction."  Which could set me rambling off-topic.  Action adventure games tend to have picked up the torch of being a good storytelling medium, with adventure games being not quite where they once were.

I go back to about '95 I've played a lot of older games, like Bards Tale I played 10 years after release. I was sort of there for the LA "Golden Age" of adventures Full Throttle etc.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 22 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[TEWR]

then Pokemon Red and Blue were my first RPGs. Awesome.

[NewYears1978]

Pretty pathetic..the whole idea is stupid.

[Monica83]

Talking of evolution when you cut roleplay elements from roleplay games is utterly stupid

[Taleroth]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I go back to about '95 I've played a lot of older games, like Bards Tale I played 10 years after release. I was sort of there for the LA "Golden Age" of adventures Full Throttle etc.

Did you play Tales from Monkey Island?  Released just a few years ago.  Better story than any RPG I've ever seen.

Thinking on it, I'm inclined to think one of the current flaws of RPGs that try to tell stories is that they're not focusing enough.  Tales from Monkey Island has a cast of what... 3 major protagonists?

Maybe that's something I'd like to see story focused RPGs try.

[coolair74]

Well I hope they take all this to heart when producing ME 3. I have high hopes that it isnt a train wreck. Tehn again a different team of devs is working on that title.

As for Dragon Age, I hope you enjoy being constantly owned by Bethesda.

[AkiKishi]

Taleroth wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I go back to about '95 I've played a lot of older games, like Bards Tale I played 10 years after release. I was sort of there for the LA "Golden Age" of adventures Full Throttle etc.

Did you play Tales from Monkey Island?  Released just a few years ago.  Better story than any RPG I've ever seen.

Thinking on it, I'm inclined to think one of the current flaws of RPGs that try to tell stories is that they're not focusing enough.  Tales from Monkey Island has a cast of what... 3 major protagonists?

Maybe that's something I'd like to see story focused RPGs try.

The name sounds familiar, I think it may have been added to PSN recently. I'll look it up, thanks for the tip.