75 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

Its a curious thing. Malcolm Hawke is an apostate and he and his wife have potentially two mage children. So why live in Ferelden, a country where they are hunted for it? They were able to flee Kirkwall, so why not just head north instead of south? Tevinter is supposed to be a good place for mages so it would make more sense to settle there.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[Vandicus]

Well in Tevintir mages have to participate in the fight and kill competition for power.

Also, Mr. Hawke was from Fereldan.

[WhiteKnyght]

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power. The Hawkes could have just settled down in some rural area of the Imperium and lived quietly.

Also if my homeland was gonna persecute me for having a gift I'd say **** them.

[Vandicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power. The Hawkes could have just settled down in some rural area of the Imperium and lived quietly.

Also if my homeland was gonna persecute me for having a gift I'd say **** them.

You'd think more people in history would do that wouldn't you? However, that is typically the small minority.

[MortalEngines]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power. The Hawkes could have just settled down in some rural area of the Imperium and lived quietly.

Also if my homeland was gonna persecute me for having a gift I'd say **** them.

The Tevinters still have a circle. It is likely that any mages in the Hawke family would of had to join it and become the apprentices to some magisters. Like Fenris says, every mage in Tevinter gets sucked up into the political battle anyway.

Modifié par MortalEngines, 20 mars 2011 - 09:56 .

[WhiteKnyght]

MortalEngines wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power. The Hawkes could have just settled down in some rural area of the Imperium and lived quietly.

Also if my homeland was gonna persecute me for having a gift I'd say **** them.

The Tevinters still have a circle. It is likely that any mages in the Hawke family would of had to join it and become the apprentices to some mages. 

At least the Tevinter circles aren't prisons. Students can leave. And I'd rather be a powerful magister than a tranquil.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[cglasgow]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power.

Well, according to the only NPC we have who's actually lived there, it does.

Anders: So. There must be mages in Tevinter that don't use blood magic.
Fenris: Of course. There are slaves. The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind.
Anders: But no magisters?
Fenris: Why must you go on about this? No magister would turn down an advantage over his rivals. If he did, he'd be dead.
Anders: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer. I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

And remember, in DA2 we kill Tevinter slavers who kidnap mage children and sell them in Tevinter, and that Fenris' own sister was a mage... and a slave.   Until she sold Fenris out for a chance at freedom, and even then, it was freedom to join the magisters as an apprentice and start killing her way up the blood mage advancement ladder, not freedom to go live a quiet life.

Basically, the Tevinter Imperium is the Sith Empire, only with blood mages instead of Dark Side Force adepts.  Either you're an evil bastard who plays the game, or you're stuck in manacles and wishing you could go back to your nice comfortable room at the Circle Tower where the templars only occasionally beat you up.

[Karagoe]

Yup just like the greywarden said in the game... Didn't want to be entwined with needless politics..

[WhiteKnyght]

cglasgow wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Being in Tevinter doesn't mean you have to vie for power.

Well, according to the only NPC we have who's actually lived there, it does.

Anders: So. There must be mages in Tevinter that don't use blood magic.
Fenris: Of course. There are slaves. The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind.
Anders: But no magisters?
Fenris: Why must you go on about this? No magister would turn down an advantage over his rivals. If he did, he'd be dead.
Anders: You know, to use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer. I just figured some of them would say no. For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else.

And remember, in DA2 we kill Tevinter slavers who kidnap mage children and sell them in Tevinter, and that Fenris' own sister was a mage... and a slave.   Until she sold Fenris out for a chance at freedom, and even then, it was freedom to join the magisters as an apprentice and start killing her way up the blood mage advancement ladder, not freedom to go live a quiet life.

Basically, the Tevinter Imperium is the Sith Empire, only with blood mages instead of Dark Side Force adepts.  Either you're an evil bastard who plays the game, or you're stuck in manacles and wishing you could go back to your nice comfortable room at the Circle Tower where the templars only occasionally beat you up.

You've got your facts a little wrong with Fenris. his sister wasn't a slave when she betrayed him. Leto fought and won the right to get those pretty tattoos of his and used his boon to free his mother and sister. And she apparently didn't like him for it. She sold him out for power, not for freedom, she already had it and claimed she was worse off with it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 10:01 .

[cglasgow]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You've got your facts a little wrong with Fenris. his sister wasn't a slave when she betrayed him. he fought and won the right to get those pretty tattoos of his and used his boon to free his mother and sister. And she apparently didn't like him for it.

Well, that's just another data point that the life of a free mage in Tevinter is no picnic, then, unless you're one of the magisters.  Which means being a powerful evil blood-magic using bastard.

Malcolm Hawke obviously didn't want that kind of life, and that's totally understandable.

Modifié par cglasgow, 20 mars 2011 - 10:02 .

[WhiteKnyght]

cglasgow wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You've got your facts a little wrong with Fenris. his sister wasn't a slave when she betrayed him. he fought and won the right to get those pretty tattoos of his and used his boon to free his mother and sister. And she apparently didn't like him for it.

Well, that's just another data point that the life of a free mage in Tevinter is no picnic, then, unless you're one of the magisters.  Which means being a powerful evil blood-magic using bastard.

Malcolm Hawke obviously didn't want that kind of life, and that's totally understandable.

Considering Malcolm Hawke never even appeared in the game, that cant be proven. It could just have easily have been that his wife didn't want to because of her Andrastian beliefs. But what they do talk about is how hard their lives have been running from the Templars.

But whatever the circimstances, mages thrive in Tevinter. And Fenris is a bit biased. Feynriel went to Tevinter and his letter didn't say he was having a horrible life. he was actually learning to control his abilities, something the Circle and Dalish couldn't give him.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 10:08 .

[cglasgow]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Considering Malcolm Hawke never even appeared in the game, that cant be proven.

Oh really?   You can tell a lot about the man by the children he raised.   That's doubly pronounced in this case, given that he was also his magical childrens' only mage instructor.

If the dude had been a ruthless blood mage, there's no way Bethany would be Bethany.  She'd be either Morrigan 2.0, or she'd have run away from home much younger and told the Lothering templars 'Screw it!  Put me in the Lake Calenhad circle instead!   I'm turning in my own family's maleficar!   Do you know the kind of things he wanted me to learn?!?'

Not to mention, of course, the letters we see that Malcolm Hawke wrote to his templar friend that let him escape Kirkwall (it's in Carver's sidequest in act 1).

And, natch, Leandra's testimony about him.   Hell, even Gamlen's, once he finally lightens up some.

Really, the preponderance of the evidence all goes one way.   Arguing that it could be the other is holding out for a very speculative conclusion, as opposed to the much more likely one.

As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

[WhiteKnyght]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You've got your facts a little wrong with Fenris. his sister wasn't a slave when she betrayed him. he fought and won the right to get those pretty tattoos of his and used his boon to free his mother and sister. And she apparently didn't like him for it.

Well, that's just another data point that the life of a free mage in Tevinter is no picnic, then, unless you're one of the magisters.  Which means being a powerful evil blood-magic using bastard.

Malcolm Hawke obviously didn't want that kind of life, and that's totally understandable.

Like I said in a previous post, Malcolm might have just wanted a quite life.

And thats assuming from nothing. Malcolm Hawke was dead, and Fenris isn't the best person to get an opinion from(The man actually fought to be Danarius' labrat and bodyguard). Feynriel didn't have any bad opinions of Tevinter and he wasn't suffering.

[Vandicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

cglasgow wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You've got your facts a little wrong with Fenris. his sister wasn't a slave when she betrayed him. he fought and won the right to get those pretty tattoos of his and used his boon to free his mother and sister. And she apparently didn't like him for it.

Well, that's just another data point that the life of a free mage in Tevinter is no picnic, then, unless you're one of the magisters.  Which means being a powerful evil blood-magic using bastard.

Malcolm Hawke obviously didn't want that kind of life, and that's totally understandable.

Like I said in a previous post, Malcolm might have just wanted a quite life.

And thats assuming from nothing. Malcolm Hawke was dead, and Fenris isn't the best person to get an opinion from(The man actually fought to be Danarius' labrat and bodyguard). Feynriel didn't have any bad opinions of Tevinter and he wasn't suffering.

I've got to say, did you read Feynriel's letter? He's a bit offput by the gratuitous seeming(to him) violence there. I think it would be fun to get to play evil and amoral in Tevintir, but alas, it is not to be.

[WhiteKnyght]

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

Until they actually show Tevinter, what has been said comes from different people's perspectives.

Fenris' sister claimed being free was worse because she and her mother lived in poverty while when they were slaves, they probably lived in Danarius' estate. Not to mention the Hawkes aren't elven.

Also just as many people would say the United States is a hellhole. The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

Also lastly, Tevinter wasn't the one who put the entire continent at war in the end of DAII now was it? It was the Chantry zealots who subjugated the mages and a man driven to lunacy by it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 10:23 .

[Vandicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

[WhiteKnyght]

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

There's also no proof that Malcolm was a believer in Adrastism. If he were he wouldn't be an apostate now would he? he would have stayed in the circle.

[Vandicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

There's also no proof that Malcolm was a believer in Adrastism. If he were he wouldn't be an apostate now would he? he would have stayed in the circle.

Anders believes in Andraste.

[WhiteKnyght]

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

There's also no proof that Malcolm was a believer in Adrastism. If he were he wouldn't be an apostate now would he? he would have stayed in the circle.

Anders believes in Andraste.

And he also said in Awakening that the only good place to be a mage was Tevinter.

[Vandicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

There's also no proof that Malcolm was a believer in Adrastism. If he were he wouldn't be an apostate now would he? he would have stayed in the circle.

Anders believes in Andraste.

And he also said in Awakening that the only good place to be a mage was Tevinter.

But then, Anders is a crazy terrorist. Hmmm, this seems to becoming circular.

[WhiteKnyght]

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

cglasgow wrote...
As for 'mages thrive in Tevinter'... yes, they 'thrive' so much that Fenris' sister thought that living as a free mage with no magister sponsorship was a worse deal than slavery.   And then sold out her own brother for a chance to finally get a magister's sponsorship as his apprentice.

No, really, Tevinter's a hellhole.  It's a great deal if you're one of the evil bastards on top; it sucks for everyone else, even lesser mages.

 The largest religon in Thedas paints Tevinter as evil and most believers tend to go with what they say before checking facts.

If you feel this way, why bother asking why they didn't go? You've thought of a perfectly valid explanation yourself.

There's also no proof that Malcolm was a believer in Adrastism. If he were he wouldn't be an apostate now would he? he would have stayed in the circle.

Anders believes in Andraste.

And he also said in Awakening that the only good place to be a mage was Tevinter.

But then, Anders is a crazy terrorist. Hmmm, this seems to becoming circular.

he didn't become that till he got the bright idea to merge with Justice. Before then he just wanted to get by. A pretty woman and a hot meal. And he actually thought that the Circle breaking off from the Chantry was a bad idea then.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 20 mars 2011 - 10:37 .