23 réponses à ce sujet

[Jenna WSI]

Just how hard is it to remove CEP and rework it into a custom hak? Are we talking cringe-worthy?

[Lightfoot8]

I would have to say, yes.

You would have to make sure that you did not change any of the 2da lines for content that you already have in use from cep. Any content that you miss adding back into you haks can cause server or client crashes. It is a lot easier to add content then to remove it.

[Jenna WSI]

Probably not worth it then. Most of what we'd want removed are scripts and systems we don't use, and a handful of creatures.

[TSMDude]

Not worth it and you do know that all those ridable creatures are in the new cep out right now as well as about 1000 new clothes with cep 2.4 which was released a few days ago?

[Aleron]

Yes, this is why Jen was seriously POed because after a lot of testing and work, we finally got it working including most of the new clothing they added. Then CEP decided to add and release the same stuff.

From what I've seen we already added most of the clothing and stuff they did without some of the rather weak looking tilesets. I doubt we're going to delete all the work we've done to try get CEP 2.4 working at least for now. Not worth the work and effort of it.

[Jenna WSI]

"about 1000 new clothes "

Uhh... I saw like 50 pieces or so. I was looking at core7. Was there more than some greek robes. fishnets tights, and a few torsos?

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 21 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[TSMDude]

Jenna WSI wrote...

"about 1000 new clothes "

Uhh... I saw like 50 pieces or so. I was looking at core7. Was there more than some greek robes. fishnets tights, and a few torsos?

Sorry i should have been more clear. With the quick release of now there is indeed only about 70 new outfit/options I think it is so yes, 1000s is a stretch.

I know looking at the ROAR and some other things also being done there is going to be close to a 200 options all together.

[Frith5]

Aren't the 'scripts and systems' optional for the most part? Did you ask at the CEP forum?

-JFK

[Jenna WSI]

Thanks TSM, just wondered if I missed a hak with clothing in it. And I don't entirely know what I'd remove until I started looking at it piece by piece. But it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Or at least, something I'll wait to tackle until I'm done making our haks.

[henesua]

It is stories like these that make me happy that I do not use CEP. All that said - you probably don't have to use all of the new CEP stuff. Just pick and choose which CEP haks you want.

[TSMDude]

Aleron wrote...

Yes, this is why Jen was seriously POed because after a lot of testing and work, we finally got it working including most of the new clothing they added. Then CEP decided to add and release the same stuff.

From what I've seen we already added most of the clothing and stuff they did without some of the rather weak looking tilesets. I doubt we're going to delete all the work we've done to try get CEP 2.4 working at least for now. Not worth the work and effort of it.

I know you do not mean this trollish but just a little note on this and I am not being rude to you at all just sharing some info.

One of the main guys from CEP went down sick in real life and this is why it grinded to a halt. I assure it wasnot anyones attention for CEP to grind to a halt. On top of that, poor Acaos got side tracked by real life as well and then the Updater had to be shelved because of this.

It seems that the CEP is back on track and is coming out with two new systems that will gratly help alleviate the 16k pallette limit.

Regardless I am quite happy with CEP all the way to now and if they quit today I still would be.

Just a quick disclaimer; I know Aleron is NOT slamming CEP and I am not slamming him at all. I am just illustrating why it happened the way it did.

[Pstemarie]

Any content added through haks can be a nightmare to remove/replace. However, you mention that a lot of the content was added in CEP 2.4. Perhaps you could merge your current 2da files with the CEP 2da files? Merging may not be as intense as it seems - especially if you use Excimer's 2da Combinulator.

As for the CEP scripts and systems - couldn't you just not link that hak in - assuming they are housed in a hak (don't know, haven't used CEP since 1.53)?

[Jenna WSI]

Al and I were a little frustrated, but overall we have always been appreciative of the work that all CC authors give to NWN projects, which help the game stay alive. I'm not posting this thread to slam them at all. Part of why I asked was because I am learning to make our own custom haks, and in that wondered if it was easier to make ALL our haks custom in order to save space and make things nice and neat. So no, no intention to slam the CEP in this.

[Pstemarie]

Jenna WSI wrote...

Part of why I asked was because I am learning to make our own custom haks, and in that wondered if it was easier to make ALL our haks custom in order to save space and make things nice and neat.

You basically have to weigh two things here:

• Will the server use a lot of (insert compilation here) stuff?
• Will I be losing players just because they have to download another large compilation set?

If the answer to bullet one is "yes", then you are probably better off using CEP (or whatever other compilation you plan to use) "out-of-the-box". In the case of CEP, I would say that most of the players out there have CEP already.

In the case of bullet two, any player you do lose are probably bowing out because they have slower connections and don't wish to spend hours (and precious bandwidth) downloading another large set of haks. In this case, LOSE them - you don't want them on your server anyway because they do have a slow connection and will have severe problems interacting with the server and other players.

P.S. Don't worry about being - or sounding - a little critical of the CC Groups out there. As a member of Project Q (and several other past projects), I can say we get more out of constructive criticism than praise. Nothing is perfect, but with input from the Community the CC Teams out there can certainly work to improve what they've released. IMO, all praise and no criticism = flyby night game *cough* DAO *cough*. But mix in liberal amounts of both and you get a game that will survive long past its expected life - i.e. NWN.

[TSMDude]

Jenna WSI wrote...

Al and I were a little frustrated, but overall we have always been appreciative of the work that all CC authors give to NWN projects, which help the game stay alive. I'm not posting this thread to slam them at all. Part of why I asked was because I am learning to make our own custom haks, and in that wondered if it was easier to make ALL our haks custom in order to save space and make things nice and neat. So no, no intention to slam the CEP in this.

Was not directed at you two at all. I understand the frustration as I too have done some work when I thought CEP was done but one of our other Builders suggested I make sure to hae a pre CEP back up so I got lucky there.

[Wall3T]

ive had this issue as well. ive worked hard on making my own custom haks and the cep go and put out the very same things as i did >.<

i wouldnt mind it at all, but i had to go and remake all my haks to disclude those files (which i believe is the only way to do it if your using the cep)...

[SHOVA]

You do not have to update to CEPv whatever. there is nothing wrong with using CEPv2.3 or .2, or .1 and your own custom haks, even if the content of what you chose was added by the CEP team for V4. In fact, I would say if you like, or are happy with how you implimented the extra content you selected, You will probably be disapointed with how the CEP team added the same content. The CEP team in my opinion, has a knack for renaming things, re-numbering things, and of course cramming everything together in a confusing way. they can't even seem to name their haks so that the order they are need to be in, is the order in which they appear in the gui.

The biggest issue that I get from your post Jenna, is the clothing parts. My advice, if you have no desire for the new mounts, or don't have a need for the Christmas placeables, and are only wanting the new clothing, use you haks instead. Your player base is not going to mind DLing haks for your specific server.

Good luck!

[The Amethyst Dragon]

SHOVA wrote...
The CEP team in my opinion, has a knack for renaming things, re-numbering things, and of course cramming everything together in a confusing way.

Renaming and renumbering of files is necessary when merging multiple projects from dozens of different authors into a single package that works.  With all the content that's created, you're bound to have lots of things that are named exactly the same.  If you don't rename and/or renumber things, you'd never be able to include a good variety of works.

And yes, meshing other custom content so that it works with CEP (or any other additional content) does take some work.  Just part of having a system where we can add new things.   Clothing haks are particularly difficult, since there are so many models to work with (needing to mesh file name with internal model references), along with  plt textures (which need to match model names/references, with lots of duplication because you can't just use one texture for every race/phenotype), then multiple 2da files, etc.)

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 22 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[Jenna WSI]

Yeah, that's pretty much how it is. We have a clothing hak already, so we had decided at least not to update to the next version. I suppose overall it'd be best to leave CEP in there, since it is such a largely used download.

Pstemarie - I've been warned that some CC teams don't like criticism, and I really don't wish to step on any toes or cause upset, so I was trying to avoid that in general. And I know how frustrating it can be when you do a buttload of work and the first thing you hear is someone nitpicking.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 22 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[SHOVA]

The Amethyst Dragon wrote...

SHOVA wrote...
The CEP team in my opinion, has a knack for renaming things, re-numbering things, and of course cramming everything together in a confusing way.

Renaming and renumbering of files is necessary when merging multiple projects from dozens of different authors into a single package that works.  With all the content that's created, you're bound to have lots of things that are named exactly the same.  If you don't rename and/or renumber things, you'd never be able to include a good variety of works.

And yes, meshing other custom content so that it works with CEP (or any other additional content) does take some work.  Just part of having a system where we can add new things.   Clothing haks are particularly difficult, since there are so many models to work with (needing to mesh file name with internal model references), along with  plt textures (which need to match model names/references, with lots of duplication because you can't just use one texture for every race/phenotype), then multiple 2da files, etc.)

While yes you may need to rename, or number new things to add to this hakset, there was no real need to rename, and renumber items from CEPv1. They did that. as far as the newer content goes, I have no idea, if they renamed or renumbered these things, that may have been CEP compatable at their creators inital release, or may have been an older available set of things from the vault (Christmas trees) CEP once stood for quality, now it stands for quantity. CEP v1, had its individual haks listed (named) in order of addition, and showed up in the gui as such. CEPv2+ Does not follow this same logical approach. Finally, this new update, currently requires a complete re-download of the entire CEPv2+ package, A terrible way to add an "update".

Jenna, you are very smart, to not make your players re-download such a huge Hakset, just to get the latest, and lets face it, probably very PW specific (theirs) needed "new" content.  making such a huge hakset, is alot of work, no doubt about it, but it also, when it has the CEP name, needs to be community friendly to at least get. the people at the CEPv2 work their rearends off to make it happen, and it is now probably the most used set of haks in NWN, but that does not make it the perfect way to add things to this game.

[Jenna WSI]

So that's why 2 was not compatible with some CEP1 modules I tried. I really hope all the future versions will be backwards compatible with the other releases in CEP2.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 22 mars 2011 - 04:09 .

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Jenna WSI wrote...

So that's why 2 was not compatible with some CEP1 modules I tried. I really hope all the future versions will be backwards compatible with the other releases in CEP2.

You can still download older versions of CEP and install them for playing those CEP1 modules.

From reading statements from the CEP team over the last couple of years, new editions of CEP will always be backwards compatible with modules made with v2.1 and later (hence the reason there's still older versions of many models included even though newer models are available).

[Jenna WSI]

Thanks, that's good to hear!

[Pstemarie]

Jenna WSI wrote...

Pstemarie - I've been warned that some CC teams don't like criticism, and I really don't wish to step on any toes or cause upset, so I was trying to avoid that in general. And I know how frustrating it can be when you do a buttload of work and the first thing you hear is someone nitpicking.

You're a hundred percent right on that, but I said "constructive criticism" - which we all know is very different from "nitpicking". While it can be sensitive to hear - you should see some of the conversations ShaDoOw and I had way back - in the long run it is constructive criticism that has, IMO, helped keep some of the larger projects alive for so long.

However, I do agree that, given the sensitivity of some teams, that such "criticisms" be aired on the forums of those projects and not necessarily in the more public venue of the Bioware Boards.