73 réponses à ce sujet

[PantheraOnca]

Circles need to be relocatable. Moving the Kirkwall circle a few miles away from kirkwall could thicken up the veil a bit relatively speaking and reduce the propensity for fade interactions. If you create a circuit of circles, you might be able to avoid any kind of flocking behavior that demons may exhibit.

I feel like circles should not be in populated areas, especially ones as dense as kirkwall. Mages should be allowed to see their families regularly, certainly every season, maybe monthly or weekly. I liked the earlier suggestion of migrating mage families to the circle they are in.

Also, mages should be given trade training and taught/discover techniques to use magic constructively for relatively mundane professional tasks (cooking, cleaning, building, art, etc). The economic incentive to provide a service rather than light an area on fire or call lightning down might divert mage attention from power-plays with demons to productive activities.

Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium. this would provide some resistance to rampant mind control as the templar learn ways to resist it, and these techniques should be second nature to everyone in a world where someone can mind control you.

[Alyka]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Why would it be proof of more liberty?

These people have the power to blow up cities... if I had the power, but you didn't... would you sleep well at night knowing I was out there. Would you curl up in your bed just praying that I won't misuse it?

Of course, we all assume we would be the one born with magic.

There's darkspawn, Blight,thieves,killers,Qunari invasions,dragons,war,assassins,disease etc.People sleep soundly at night knowing all of that is loose in the world.Whats the problem with some mages running around? Sure it just adds to everything else, but not all mages are bad.

[PantheraOnca]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Why would it be proof of more liberty?

These people have the power to blow up cities... if I had the power, but you didn't... would you sleep well at night knowing I was out there. Would you curl up in your bed just praying that I won't misuse it?

Of course, we all assume we would be the one born with magic.

I'm pretty sure we all live in that world already.

Whats the population ratio of say, an airforce pilot to the general population in the real world compared to a mage to the general population in thedas? That pilot can destroy your house, town, city, depending on the armament of their jet, and a mage could do the same based on their power and training.

You don't live in fear of pilots dropping bombs on you just cause they can. This is because there is training and discipline instilled in pilots, and psych evaluations. A potential pilot that fails the psych eval doesn't become a pilot, a mage that fails the same becomes tranquil.

Similar arguements can be made for police officers, especially bomb squad.

Basically, there are a million ways for someone to kill you that you have 0 control over, but you manage to greet every day without @#%$ing yourself constantly, so i'm not too worried about some mage dude fireballing my face off in thedas.

[dreman9999]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Circles need to be relocatable. Moving the Kirkwall circle a few miles away from kirkwall could thicken up the veil a bit relatively speaking and reduce the propensity for fade interactions. If you create a circuit of circles, you might be able to avoid any kind of flocking behavior that demons may exhibit.

I feel like circles should not be in populated areas, especially ones as dense as kirkwall. Mages should be allowed to see their families regularly, certainly every season, maybe monthly or weekly. I liked the earlier suggestion of migrating mage families to the circle they are in.

Also, mages should be given trade training and taught/discover techniques to use magic constructively for relatively mundane professional tasks (cooking, cleaning, building, art, etc). The economic incentive to provide a service rather than light an area on fire or call lightning down might divert mage attention from power-plays with demons to productive activities.

Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium. this would provide some resistance to rampant mind control as the templar learn ways to resist it, and these techniques should be second nature to everyone in a world where someone can mind control you.

I disagree..... Why? Because right there is the possiblity of the greatest hospital in all of Kirtwall. The healing ablities of all the mage combine would make an epicdemic like like a common cold. And what better way to get people to like magic than to heal them. And the mages can make mining equipment look like toys.
I say get them involved in the cities and common people with the phylacteries and the circle.

[L6-636536]

Medhia Nox wrote...

L6-636536: Owain would completely disagree with you, you can even say exactly what you're saying here to him.

We don't know anything about the "soul" in Dragon Age - is the "Dream Self" from the Fade the "soul"? We're not told.

Actually - it's a Zen state, but I won't even bother speaking on its merits - except maybe the fact that demons completely ignore you, that sounds good.

@Lithuasil - there is no "physical" in the Fade. Not according to Origins. It's only your dream self. Valor explains this in Origins... the weapons aren't weapons, they're an extension of your will. You don't actually fight a physical rage demon - you fight the idea of rage. If rage can overcome you in the Fade - then it can manifest only in your body.

Technically - only Shades are physical manifestations of demons. All other demons were SUPPOSE to only appear inside of mortal vessels... but Bioware drops the ball on their own story mythology quite a bit.

Basically - they do put you in the Fade to see if you'll get possessed. If you get possessed - you'll turn into an abomination - and then the Templars will kill you. I'm actually fuzzy on where Tranquility actually comes in - but it's suppose to be there somewhere.

The 'Soul' - The Maker was disatisfied with his children he created in the fade although they had the power to create and wield the fade at will they did nothing with it because they didnt have the most important aspect for creativity. The spark of divine, and so he wrought his second creation 'life' he created their own world their own place and gave unto them the spark of divine the maker himself. And he sat and watched interested and curious of all the things his new creation had wondered. They created they struggled they made. And the thing he gave them was that whenever they reseted they would return to the fade so that they would know him.
The makers first children the spirits of the fade grew jealous and displaced of the makers new creation. They lied and tried to break out of the fade to live and experience what it meant to have the spark of divine. So that when they returned to the fade they would create and share their experiences in hopes of regaining the makers favor. But after a while the spirits soon became demons Rage,Sloth,Desire,Pride they felt that they had squandered their gifts so and hated the maker with such jealousy and gave them lies and offered them false gods.

The Maker closed his gates and wept for his creations had created Sin.

Or something like that It was in the codex I found I think? In Merrills house that supports the idea that all life has a soul which completely explained why Demons in DA:O wanted to "Live, to See" which made me kinda feel sad that I killed so many of them without prejudice even when they made offers that did'nt really effect me.

[TexasToast712]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.I would have templars and Mages rased and trained together. One of the major problems is the distance of empathy on both sides, if we make them like family than it would be harder for them to hate each other. To kill the power of fear is the first step.

That is a good idea but what about when they go to war?

John the Mage: Haha! Iam invincible with all these sustainables!

*Templar Sam uses Cleanse on enemy mage*

John the Mage: GODDAMMIT SAM! *impaled by throwing knife*

Templar Sam: Oops.......

Modifié par TexasToast712, 21 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[dreman9999]

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.I would have templars and Mages rased and trained together. One of the major problems is the distance of empathy on both sides, if we make them like family than it would be harder for them to hate each other. To kill the power of fear is the first step.

That is a good idea but what about when they go to war?

John the Mage: Haha! Iam invincible with all these sustaniables!

*Templar Sam uses Cleanse on enemy mage*

John the Mage: GODDAMMIT SAM! *impaled by throwing knife*

Templar Sam: Oops.......

Won't Templer Sam tell Mage John he's using Cleanse before using it?

[TexasToast712]

dreman9999 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.I would have templars and Mages rased and trained together. One of the major problems is the distance of empathy on both sides, if we make them like family than it would be harder for them to hate each other. To kill the power of fear is the first step.

That is a good idea but what about when they go to war?

John the Mage: Haha! Iam invincible with all these sustaniables!

*Templar Sam uses Cleanse on enemy mage*

John the Mage: GODDAMMIT SAM! *impaled by throwing knife*

Templar Sam: Oops.......

Won't Templer Sam tell Mage John he's using Cleanse before using it?

Still wouldnt help since it is a AOE spell and John is right next to Sam.

[dreman9999]

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.I would have templars and Mages rased and trained together. One of the major problems is the distance of empathy on both sides, if we make them like family than it would be harder for them to hate each other. To kill the power of fear is the first step.

That is a good idea but what about when they go to war?

John the Mage: Haha! Iam invincible with all these sustaniables!

*Templar Sam uses Cleanse on enemy mage*

John the Mage: GODDAMMIT SAM! *impaled by throwing knife*

Templar Sam: Oops.......

Won't Templer Sam tell Mage John he's using Cleanse before using it?

Still wouldnt help since it is a AOE spell and John is right next to Sam.

Then John would duck behind Sam untill his magic is back ......Before Sam uses Cleanse.

[TexasToast712]

dreman9999 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.I would have templars and Mages rased and trained together. One of the major problems is the distance of empathy on both sides, if we make them like family than it would be harder for them to hate each other. To kill the power of fear is the first step.

That is a good idea but what about when they go to war?

John the Mage: Haha! Iam invincible with all these sustaniables!

*Templar Sam uses Cleanse on enemy mage*

John the Mage: GODDAMMIT SAM! *impaled by throwing knife*

Templar Sam: Oops.......

Won't Templer Sam tell Mage John he's using Cleanse before using it?

Still wouldnt help since it is a AOE spell and John is right next to Sam.

Then John would duck behind Sam untill his magic is back ......Before Sam uses Cleanse.

Templar Sam: Hey! why are you hiding behind me?

John the Mage: because that little stun of yours removed all my spells now shut up and be my meat shield b*tch!

Templar Sam: Then who is gonna shield me?

John the Mage: your shield..............

Templar Sam: ...............smart ass


Iam enjoying this too much. I should write a fan fic. The Wonderful Travels of Templar Sam and John the Mage! Quite the title there.

[atheelogos]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Circles need to be relocatable. Moving the Kirkwall circle a few miles away from kirkwall could thicken up the veil a bit relatively speaking and reduce the propensity for fade interactions. If you create a circuit of circles, you might be able to avoid any kind of flocking behavior that demons may exhibit.

I feel like circles should not be in populated areas, especially ones as dense as kirkwall. Mages should be allowed to see their families regularly, certainly every season, maybe monthly or weekly. I liked the earlier suggestion of migrating mage families to the circle they are in.

Also, mages should be given trade training and taught/discover techniques to use magic constructively for relatively mundane professional tasks (cooking, cleaning, building, art, etc). The economic incentive to provide a service rather than light an area on fire or call lightning down might divert mage attention from power-plays with demons to productive activities.

Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium. this would provide some resistance to rampant mind control as the templar learn ways to resist it, and these techniques should be second nature to everyone in a world where someone can mind control you.

you've so missed the point. Mages don't wont the Circles to exist at all. They've had enough of that, so moving them isn't going to do anything.

"Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium"  Not everyone can learn those types of powers. In the same way that most people don't have the talent to become fighters.

[PantheraOnca]

atheelogos wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

Circles need to be relocatable. Moving the Kirkwall circle a few miles away from kirkwall could thicken up the veil a bit relatively speaking and reduce the propensity for fade interactions. If you create a circuit of circles, you might be able to avoid any kind of flocking behavior that demons may exhibit.

I feel like circles should not be in populated areas, especially ones as dense as kirkwall. Mages should be allowed to see their families regularly, certainly every season, maybe monthly or weekly. I liked the earlier suggestion of migrating mage families to the circle they are in.

Also, mages should be given trade training and taught/discover techniques to use magic constructively for relatively mundane professional tasks (cooking, cleaning, building, art, etc). The economic incentive to provide a service rather than light an area on fire or call lightning down might divert mage attention from power-plays with demons to productive activities.

Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium. this would provide some resistance to rampant mind control as the templar learn ways to resist it, and these techniques should be second nature to everyone in a world where someone can mind control you.

you've so missed the point. Mages don't wont the Circles to exist at all. They've had enough of that, so moving them isn't going to do anything.

"Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium"  Not everyone can learn those types of powers. In the same way that most people don't have the talent to become fighters.

I think at least some mages don't hate the idea of the circle, there are the loyalists (or whatever that group was). I think a circle-type organization is necessary. I just want to make it less of an isolation from society. It should be more school than prison.

We don't know that every cannot learn those techniques. Even if everyone cannot learn them, everyone who can should be taught.

[NKKKK]

Finn was a guy that didn't mind the circle terribly.

[The Big Nothing]

Mages are freed, but each is assigned a single templar handler who watches over them. And they have to kiss passionately at least once after the Harrowing as a means of bonding.

[NKKKK]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Mages are freed, but each is assigned a single templar handler who watches over them. And they have to kiss passionately at least once after the Harrowing as a means of bonding.

IC WAT U DID THAR

[CrashTagger]

Solution? Let them kill each other, and make a powerful team with the survivors, much like Foxhound. Hawke would be their "Liquid Snake" and and ...

Nevermind, on a serious note, for me the Templars are just zealots, blinded by rage and all the fanatism taught to them throughout their service. I believe that if they weren't that harsh, Mages would not choose to be Blood Mages; at least not that many, because I've killed a thousand on a DAII playthrough.

[Tainan7509]

I think both side are completely corrupted either way are leading to the same solution. There is no point to argue about which side is the best. Everything is depending on how does player went through act 1,2 and 3. The entire story is trying to demonstrate the problem between two side and also chantry behind it. If you look at the big picture of the world, it is clearly that a "change" is needed. If you put yourself in both side like imaging you are a mage or templar, how are you going to react to this situation. what if you are templar and your sister is a mage, do you want to lock your sister in the circle? what if you are a mage, don't you want freedom? DA2 is clearly focusing on the potential problem between mages and templars and that's why Hawke came to play a big role. He or She make the entire world into war and it was necessary move. Change is needed. So choose either side is not important.

[Evolution33]

What I got out of the story of Kirkwall was that many bad things had happened there, and it was just a cursed place. The Viel was weak and when the Tevinter's occupied the city they worked to make it even weaker. I fully expect a band of three DLC at some point. There was a lot of death surrounding the city. From the daily Tevinter executions to the war with the Qunari. It just felt like a place demons and evil spirits could come to easier than most places. It takes a very special person to be above temptation, and no one in this story seemed that special. It is very likely that all the blood mages wouldn't have been blood mages if they were in another circle. It also didn't help that the idol made Merideth even worse than she was before.

[Spetulhu]

I'd actually say the Circles as they exist now are the problem. Sure, mages are brought there to learn the basics, which is good. But they're also caged with a large number of older mages that have had time to come up with all sorts of funny ideas, and there's books... and teachers telling them to not do certain things because it's "bad". How can it not end badly?

Amateur criminals meet professionals in prison, learn from them and get contacts for later. How is it different with mages?

[Medhia Nox]

L6-636536: SO, you're saying because humans and elves go into the Fade - they have souls.

Dwarves don't go into the Fade - so they do not have souls?

[Lithuasil]

Medhia Nox wrote...

L6-636536: SO, you're saying because humans and elves go into the Fade - they have souls.

Dwarves don't go into the Fade - so they do not have souls?

Pretty much - look Sandal in the eyes long enough, and you'll realize

[atheelogos]

PantheraOnca wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

Circles need to be relocatable. Moving the Kirkwall circle a few miles away from kirkwall could thicken up the veil a bit relatively speaking and reduce the propensity for fade interactions. If you create a circuit of circles, you might be able to avoid any kind of flocking behavior that demons may exhibit.

I feel like circles should not be in populated areas, especially ones as dense as kirkwall. Mages should be allowed to see their families regularly, certainly every season, maybe monthly or weekly. I liked the earlier suggestion of migrating mage families to the circle they are in.

Also, mages should be given trade training and taught/discover techniques to use magic constructively for relatively mundane professional tasks (cooking, cleaning, building, art, etc). The economic incentive to provide a service rather than light an area on fire or call lightning down might divert mage attention from power-plays with demons to productive activities.

Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium. this would provide some resistance to rampant mind control as the templar learn ways to resist it, and these techniques should be second nature to everyone in a world where someone can mind control you.

you've so missed the point. Mages don't wont the Circles to exist at all. They've had enough of that, so moving them isn't going to do anything.

"Finally, the chantry should get off its lazy ass and teach everyone templar techniques that can be done without lyrium"  Not everyone can learn those types of powers. In the same way that most people don't have the talent to become fighters.

I think at least some mages don't hate the idea of the circle, there are the loyalists (or whatever that group was). I think a circle-type organization is necessary. I just want to make it less of an isolation from society. It should be more school than prison.

We don't know that every cannot learn those techniques. Even if everyone cannot learn them, everyone who can should be taught.

"I think at least some mages don't hate the idea of the circle, there are the loyalists (or whatever that group was)"true but most seem to be againist it seeing as the Chantry has lost ever single circle post DA2.

"It should be more school than prison." In this we agree 

"everyone who can should be taught." I'm not sure this is feasible. Trying to get every able body person to commit to months/years of training would be near impossible. People have better things to do with their time.

[atheelogos]

Medhia Nox wrote...

L6-636536: SO, you're saying because humans and elves go into the Fade - they have souls.

Dwarves don't go into the Fade - so they do not have souls?

well we see dwarven specters in Awakening, so I'd guess they have something.

[brushyourteeth]

I think it's worth saying that no matter how many liberties the mages are given within the Circle, there will always be people like Anders who don't find it free enough -- guys that would run away from home at 16 even if they weren't mages because mom made him do his own laundry and come home by 10 o'clock. Still, right is right no matter how the minority will respond/how often they will blow up important religious and historical monuments. Mages are people.

I also think we should just get rid of those danged helmets. We all know that's what's really driving the dress-wearers batty.

I like the idea of keeping Circles away from densely populated areas -- because it's true that the Veil would become shaky and endanger people more often than necessary. And all it takes is one attempt at a mage Circle/mage's extended family compound experiment for this to happen:

Bob: Your brother became an abomination and killed my whole family and my favorite tavern wench!

Alice: Forget you! *slashes wrist and powers up spell*

*fade to city burning*

and then we have more crazyfaces like Meredith who are mad at all mages forever.

I think that the Chantry, much like its real-life counterpart (the Christian/early Catholic church) is based on fantastic ideas - then filtered through enough idiots who don't get it or want to abuse it (Meredith, Petrice, etc.) that people are ticked at it forever. The problem isn't the Chantry, it's human pride and human weakness -- the same way that the problem isn't mages, it's demonic influence and human weakness.

I also want to put it out there that I LOVE the idea of a mabari-guarded Circle. Let's send the Templars on payed vacation and see how that works out.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 22 mars 2011 - 10:12 .